Update 1.31 - All changes in forts

rice farmer

the cake was the gg dmg stack....the key to conquering the whole world.......the gps to atlantis......the source of alien technology.......the.......
 

rice farmer

if spamming/trolling = slightly mocking you, then yes I'll stop. sorry for being mean.
 

Diggo11

InnoGames
Im no coding genius and wouldn't know coding from Chinese. Im sure devs can work it out so this is reversed to make best set-up @ 40% HP and 60% FB skills?
You don't really need to be... whilst they go hand in hand, the logical solution to a problem is quite different to the practical implementation ;) What, exactly, would you or anyone else like to propose for discussion? There are a few things that could be done, but each has different repercussions for the game as a whole that ought to be considered before anyone does anything :)

i think they should do something similar to duelling whereby combining certain skills gets certain results:
aim and appearance lands a hit
the more you have in aim ad appearance the more likely you are to land a hit.
same for FBs: aim and leadership... or whatever the formulas are...
that way you would have a bigger, more diverse range of players, some better at aiming, some better at dodging...
I somehow highly doubt we'll be seeing the skills for fort battling change any time soon...
 

-Neo-

Banned
You don't really need to be... whilst they go hand in hand, the logical solution to a problem is quite different to the practical implementation ;) What, exactly, would you or anyone else like to propose for discussion? There are a few things that could be done, but each has different repercussions for the game as a whole that ought to be considered before anyone does anything :)


I somehow highly doubt we'll be seeing the skills for fort battling change any time soon...
well the issue is tank builds in ffs.
so what solutions are there?
hp cap but that hinders soldiers bonus
slight mod of fb skills to make hp less important.
it would be awesome to mod the skills so that you can have different types of fort fighter.
idk what to say tbh
 

JoxerTM

well the issue is tank builds in ffs.
so what solutions are there?
Possible solutions are:
1. New fort guns with higher damage for levels 98+
2. All fort fighters MUST switch to blacksmith in order to use bayonette prior to each battle or bayonette works in next few battles not just one - this one should work like the townmembership, if you're not a blacksmith you can't join a fort fight because of the balance issues with the damage
3. When shooting an adventurer, dueler has a bigger chance to crit (20% on normal sector, 50% on flag sector, doubled if prem), when shooting a soldier the possibility of crit is higher too but not much (15% if target is in normal sector, 20% if on the flag, doubled with prem), highest if shooting a soldier with the holy trumpet (chance to hit would be 500 and chance of the crit 100%, regardless the premium)
4. Cap the total health

Pick one.
 

iwatchhotfuzz

Well-Known Member
1. New fort guns with higher damage for levels 98+
There was a thread in DD about releasing names weapons, some of which will obviously have increased damage over the precse winchester and maybe GG.

3. When shooting an adventurer, dueler has a bigger chance to crit (20% on normal sector, 50% on flag sector, doubled if prem), when shooting a soldier the possibility of crit is higher too but not much (15% if target is in normal sector, 20% if on the flag, doubled with prem), highest if shooting a soldier with the holy trumpet (chance to hit would be 500 and chance of the crit 100%, regardless the premium)
Now your just being silly, people would just start being advent tanks. Also it would be only duelers that have that advatage which would undermine builders/advents ability to do as much damage on soldiers.

4. Cap the total health
Not fair on soldiers, if this were to happen people would have to be compensated with nuggets for respeccing and an option to change class.

P.S. Joxer you noob got me a warning for wanting t-51b power armour in the game :p
 

-Neo-

Banned
Possible solutions are:
1. New fort guns with higher damage for levels 98+ how does this get rid of tanks? this wuld only push more people to go down the tank build.
2. All fort fighters MUST switch to blacksmith in order to use bayonette prior to each battle or bayonette works in next few battles not just one - this one should work like the townmembership, if you're not a blacksmith you can't join a fort fight because of the balance issues with the damage what? what do bayonets have anything to do with tank builds?
3. When shooting an adventurer, dueler has a bigger chance to crit (20% on normal sector, 50% on flag sector, doubled if prem), when shooting a soldier the possibility of crit is higher too but not much (15% if target is in normal sector, 20% if on the flag, doubled with prem), highest if shooting a soldier with the holy trumpet (chance to hit would be 500 and chance of the crit 100%, regardless the premium) char fort bonuses are spot on, tampering with them only creates more problems
4. Cap the total health tampers with soldier bonus

Pick one.
what you suggest arent solutions, in fact your suggestions create more problems.
so i wouldnt pick any.
rated 1 star = abysmal
also, the problem is tank builds jox, everything ese in ffs is spot on.
what is wrong with modding the formula figures slightly to make the combination of lead, stam, hide, aim and doge a tad more worthy?

it seems absolutely ridiculous that the best way to win a fort is to stack 1 skill. and not only that, you dont even stack a skill thats relevant to fort fighting!!!!
it wouldnt be any different if to get the best results you had to stack swimming.
absolutely ridiculous.
 

-Neo-

Banned
the answer to this question that kayak gives is the one that inno give. but it is by no means the best solution to fort battles.

indeed we have to keep the game accessible to all.
inno decide to make fort skills meaningless.
why then dont they just take them away completely?

if you follow this reasoning they should make everyone have the same start HP and whether or not you land or dodge a hit is entirely down to luck. why mislead everyone into thinking that fb skills are lead, dodge, aim, stam and hiding if thats BS?

you cant go halfway.

imo if thats what inno really want to do (keep fbs accessible to all) then they should be upfront and say that its a matter of luck, wipe the board clean and start over.

if however they want to spice it up it is obvious they have to make fb results, ie landing hits and dodging them, similar to the way duelling works.

for instance: if to land a hit you need lead, aim and stamina then that random value picked from that combination must be greater than the random value picked from the combination of your opponents lead, dodge and hiding.
 

Rebow

Well-Known Member
How to make fort battles fair and accessible to all, and still allowing elite skill builds for those that want to dedicate themselves to battles.

THAT is the question.
 

rice farmer

I guess going with neo's idea, higher levels would probably want to evenly spread their skills to last longer while lower levels could specialize for certain situations. for example, the higher levels would allocate points toward all 5 fb skills to maximize bonuses and lower levels would specced for pure attack/defence. let's say the higher level player has 100 sp and spreads them evenly so he would be decent at attacking/defending. the lower level player only has 50 sp and puts all of it into attacking so he will do a lot of damage, but will go down faster or putting the 50 sp into defending so he will dodge a lot but not do as much damage.
 

-Neo-

Banned
indeed, theres no perfect build to duelling, pure can be beaten by lower levels...
why cant that be similar in fbs? is it possible? idk
 

Diggo11

InnoGames
How to make fort battles fair and accessible to all, and still allowing elite skill builds for those that want to dedicate themselves to battles.

THAT is the question.
Indeed it is Rebow. Don't exaggerate Neo, the five fort skills are not completely meaningless, however they are comparatively lacking effectiveness.

I must say I support kayak's notion of creating a formula that reduces HP gained by high levels of the health skill, possibly to be partnered by a small increase in the skills formula. In my mind that leaves one question... how much? Observe:

Non-soldier with 500 points in health and 2000 base HP:
  • (500 * 10) ^ 1.00 + 2000 = 7000 (100%)
  • (500 * 10) ^ 0.99 + 2000 = 6592 (94%)
  • (500 * 10) ^ 0.98 + 2000 = 6217 (89%)
  • (500 * 10) ^ 0.97 + 2000 = 5873 (84%)
  • (500 * 10) ^ 0.96 + 2000 = 5556 (79%)
  • (500 * 10) ^ 0.95 + 2000 = 5266 (75%)
Non-worker with 88 skill points in leadership:
  • 88 ^ 0.40 = 6.00 (100%)
  • 88 ^ 0.41 = 6.27 (105%)
  • 88 ^ 0.42 = 6.56 (109%)
  • 88 ^ 0.43 = 6.86 (114%)
  • 88 ^ 0.44 = 7.17 (120%)
  • 88 ^ 0.45 = 7.50 (125%)
 

rice farmer

Diggo, you are a genius....it's best to tweak things a tiny bit and see what the impact is rather than fundamentally change the equation and wreak havoc on everybody....
 

-Neo-

Banned
Indeed it is Rebow. Don't exaggerate Neo, the five fort skills are not completely meaningless, however they are comparatively lacking effectiveness.

I must say I support kayak's notion of creating a formula that reduces HP gained by high levels of the health skill, possibly to be partnered by a small increase in the skills formula. In my mind that leaves one question... how much? Observe:

Non-soldier with 500 points in health and 2000 base HP:
  • (500 * 10) ^ 1.00 + 2000 = 7000 (100%)
  • (500 * 10) ^ 0.99 + 2000 = 6592 (94%)
  • (500 * 10) ^ 0.98 + 2000 = 6217 (89%)
  • (500 * 10) ^ 0.97 + 2000 = 5873 (84%)
  • (500 * 10) ^ 0.96 + 2000 = 5556 (79%)
  • (500 * 10) ^ 0.95 + 2000 = 5266 (75%)
Non-worker with 88 skill points in leadership:
  • 88 ^ 0.40 = 6.00 (100%)
  • 88 ^ 0.41 = 6.27 (105%)
  • 88 ^ 0.42 = 6.56 (109%)
  • 88 ^ 0.43 = 6.86 (114%)
  • 88 ^ 0.44 = 7.17 (120%)
  • 88 ^ 0.45 = 7.50 (125%)
i understand, how would this work out for soldiers?
 

Diggo11

InnoGames
i understand, how would this work out for soldiers?
Change the 10s in those formulae to 15s or 20s and you'll find out ;) Keep in mind that formula, raising something to a power less than one, is the same way skills are calculated. This means the more points in HP you already have, the less HP each additional point gives you. (In other words, it ain't double health no more...)
 

-Neo-

Banned
Change the 10s in those formulae to 15s or 20s and you'll find out ;) Keep in mind that formula, raising something to a power less than one, is the same way skills are calculated. This means the more points in HP you already have, the less HP each additional point gives you. (In other words, it ain't double health no more...)
Which is why im not too keen on this.
Double hp is the only good thing in battles for soldiers sub level 70.
Straight after this is implemented you will get a new post saying "soldier bonus is no match for the other char bonuses"...
...which is why I think the only way forward is to increase the effectiveness of the other fb skills.
 

rice farmer

Double hp is precisely why we have this problem.....sure it'll hurt at the beginning but people will adjust to it, since this is how it should be, with no one skill being the most important.