Update 1.31 - All changes in forts

JoxerTM

Documented ones (changelog):
- buffs (damage/hitchance/dodgechance from blacksmith crafted items)
- fixed bug where players who are in the fort and signed for a battle were still duelable
- chest drop rate changed (still a secret formula)
- players can sign in the fort from afar if allied to attacking or defending town
- gold gun stacking bonus removed


Undocumented ones, with comments:

1. You may see who has which rank by hovering mouse over him.
This is awsome for stacking on offliners 10 mins prior to the fight start!

2. While ranking, you see player's HP, weapon and if he's at the fort (or nearby or far away).
In other words, a ranker will pass a reservist rank to XP wh... oops... 100HP player, and to some others yell before it's too late "remove bear! swap the scythe!". Nice one if you ask me.

3. Town councillors and allied town founders are not automatically ranked as captains
So... If no general came at the fort, or at least signed in and gave ctp rank to someone, if anyone else was signed at the fort that moment, there is no way to rank anyone later. This is plain silly.
[EDIT]Seems this was a bug. Further research needed.[/EDIT]

4. All players allied to the attacking or defending town are now boxed.
What gives? I captanize 4K HP dueler with massive leadership too from an independant town and he's still being pushed all over the place by my level 15 ally. What's the purpose of this change I'm not certain.
 
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Diggo11

InnoGames
I presume you mean Version 1.31? *takes a bow for undocumented change #2*

I am not sure what happened with the third undocumented change... I may see if that can be reverted (or perhaps fixed may even be the correct terminology).
 

JoxerTM

Yes 1.31, sorry for that typo, but can't change the thread title via edit option. :(
 

Jouais

Are you sure about #3? I was in a defense last night and had automatic captains.
 

JoxerTM

Actually I'm not sure anymore. I was in 2 attacks where it happened so I suspected it's intended. Now I've signed in a defence of a fort that I share, and I'm captain automatically. It was probably some bug so next time it happens, I'll took some screenshots and fill the support ticket.

And I'm taking this opportunity to say hi to Joony from the-west.de who's currently lurking on our forum. :)
 
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-Neo-

Banned
I think this new update is awesome, some pretty nice features all round.
GG stack removed at last! which is great and no loss there to anyone! nice work inno!
talking about fbs all they need to do now is sort the HP-tank issues that clearly DO NOT coincide with the "We feel The West should remain a game accessible to all, and creating niche groups of 'elite' players [...] is not the path we wish to select for this community." policy.
Do you need any more material on this Diggo? what can we do to help sort this issue out? is this already being worked on? whats the news?

2 things I hate to read about GG stack and HP tanks:
1 - GG stack was only discovered once a few players had GGs, these players never knew thee was a stackable bonus, as no one did. As such no one spent money, bought nuggets, reskilled twice or even 3 times for this bonus. So no one who got a GG lost out when the stack was removed.
We all knew that the stack bonus was going to be removed, so if after all of this you went out of your way to get a bonus that was going to be removed then it is your own fault you now feel you have lost out. Dont blame anyone else for your own noobishness.
At the end of the day GG is still the best FF gun and is still worth all the hassle to obtain it.

2 HP tanks were never a solution to GGs.
If you were duped and brainwashed in thinking so then it is your own fault. HP tanks came from the Polish Worlds who had Tank fort fights before GGs even came out.
This type of battle, experienced by some elite players, was then introduced to .net by these same players who thought the world of polish tank fort fighting.
We have since learnt that .net players arent the same as .pl players! (who would have guessed?!!!) sarcasm brackets needed?

point no4 i dont understand, about allies being boxed, what exactly is that?

As for everything else, there are only minor issues to sort.
The main issue being the HP tanking, I hope 1.32 is out soon, or they make an express patch to solve it.
I think I can speak for everyone when I say that we all want exactly what diggo says:
Originally Posted by Diggo11 said:
We feel The West should remain a game accessible to all, and creating niche groups of 'elite' players [...] is not the path we wish to select for this community.
I hope everything is sorted out soon
Happy Gaming
-Neo-
 
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Elmyr

5. Market price limits

I'm not sure what are they are, or if they've been tweaked again since yesterday. I've been able to sell two things below the buy price since the update, a precise Winchester for $15k (97.4% of $15,400), but couldn't sell slippers for $1999 (99.95% of $2000). I was able to sell a quarter horse for the sell price today.

Edit: Oops, I completely missed forts in the title. Did I save myself by mentioning a gun?
 
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rice farmer

Some rep for Neo is due....I am frustrated by the abundance by uninformed players who can't be bothered to figure things out for themselves and just latch on to ideas that often lack any foresight......while I wouldn't necessarily be distraught if some game mechanics change, I personally think that the game is fairly balanced....there are ways to overcome everything....
 

TJ Tuttle

Well-Known Member
I think this new update is awesome, some pretty nice features all round.
GG stack removed at last! which is great and no loss there to anyone! nice work inno!
talking about fbs all they need to do now is sort the HP-tank issues that clearly DO NOT coincide with the "We feel The West should remain a game accessible to all, and creating niche groups of 'elite' players [...] is not the path we wish to select for this community." policy.
Do you need any more material on this Diggo? what can we do to help sort this issue out? is this already being worked on? whats the news?

2 things I hate to read about GG stack and HP tanks:
1 - GG stack was only discovered once a few players had GGs, these players never knew thee was a stackable bonus, as no one did. As such no one spent money, bought nuggets, reskilled twice or even 3 times for this bonus. So no one who got a GG lost out when the stack was removed.
We all knew that the stack bonus was going to be removed, so if after all of this you went out of your way to get a bonus that was going to be removed then it is your own fault you now feel you have lost out. Dont blame anyone else for your own noobishness.
At the end of the day GG is still the best FF gun and is still worth all the hassle to obtain it.

2 HP tanks were never a solution to GGs.
If you were duped and brainwashed in thinking so then it is your own fault. HP tanks came from the Polish Worlds who had Tank fort fights before GGs even came out.
This type of battle, experienced by some elite players, was then introduced to .net by these same players who thought the world of polish tank fort fighting.
We have since learnt that .net players arent the same as .pl players! (who would have guessed?!!!) sarcasm brackets needed?

point no4 i dont understand, about allies being boxed, what exactly is that?

As for everything else, there are only minor issues to sort.
The main issue being the HP tanking, I hope 1.32 is out soon, or they make an express patch to solve it.
I think I can speak for everyone when I say that we all want exactly what diggo says:


I hope everything is sorted out soon
Happy Gaming
-Neo-
I really thought (stupidly) that the HP thing would sort itself out, that players would on their own realize with the GG stacking gone that tanks needed to be modified down and some of those points moved to more skill based fort fighting skills or other skill areas (for jobs, etc.)

It really looks like Neo's idea of skills for fort fighting having a larger impact and for Elmry's (i think it was) of sp put into HP having a diminishing effect being implemented.
 

Diggo11

InnoGames
I think this new update is awesome, some pretty nice features all round.
GG stack removed at last! which is great and no loss there to anyone! nice work inno!
talking about fbs all they need to do now is sort the HP-tank issues that clearly DO NOT coincide with the "We feel The West should remain a game accessible to all, and creating niche groups of 'elite' players [...] is not the path we wish to select for this community." policy.
Do you need any more material on this Diggo? what can we do to help sort this issue out? is this already being worked on? whats the news?

2 things I hate to read about GG stack and HP tanks:
1 - GG stack was only discovered once a few players had GGs, these players never knew thee was a stackable bonus, as no one did. As such no one spent money, bought nuggets, reskilled twice or even 3 times for this bonus. So no one who got a GG lost out when the stack was removed.
We all knew that the stack bonus was going to be removed, so if after all of this you went out of your way to get a bonus that was going to be removed then it is your own fault you now feel you have lost out. Dont blame anyone else for your own noobishness.
At the end of the day GG is still the best FF gun and is still worth all the hassle to obtain it.

2 HP tanks were never a solution to GGs.
If you were duped and brainwashed in thinking so then it is your own fault. HP tanks came from the Polish Worlds who had Tank fort fights before GGs even came out.
This type of battle, experienced by some elite players, was then introduced to .net by these same players who thought the world of polish tank fort fighting.
We have since learnt that .net players arent the same as .pl players! (who would have guessed?!!!) sarcasm brackets needed?

point no4 i dont understand, about allies being boxed, what exactly is that?

As for everything else, there are only minor issues to sort.
The main issue being the HP tanking, I hope 1.32 is out soon, or they make an express patch to solve it.
I think I can speak for everyone when I say that we all want exactly what diggo says:


I hope everything is sorted out soon
Happy Gaming
-Neo-
Has the truth been spoken or has the truth been spoken? ;)

In regards to player's HP in fort battles, I do believe the developers agree they'd like skills to be more influential and health to be less influential. However, as usual nothing is ever concrete until it's marked as resolved in the update log. If you'd like to formulate or propose some measures to resolve the issue, please do go ahead and I'll be happy to contribute and pass on whatever recommendations we conclude with.

I guess no-one wants to rush into a solution though. For example, if you simply make fort skills more effective then you must consider the flow of effects; non-specialist fighters would lose out (is that a bad thing?), there would be more players using the five fort skills (what would that do, if anything?) and a possible influence on lower levelled players (will they lose out?). If anyone wants to hold such a discussion then I am most certainly game to personally contribute, summarise and send ;)

5. Market price limits

I'm not sure what are they are, or if they've been tweaked again since yesterday. I've been able to sell two things below the buy price since the update, a precise Winchester for $15k (97.4% of $15,400), but couldn't sell slippers for $1999 (99.95% of $2000). I was able to sell a quarter horse for the sell price today.
A precise Winchester is a shop item, so it should be possible to sell/buy between $7740 (sales price) and $61920 (foreign price). Slippers are not shop items and can only be sold above their purchase price $2000. See the blog for more info ;)
 

iwatchhotfuzz

Well-Known Member
I'll explain this for all you non-yet-seemly-expert-fort-fighters out there. HP tanks suffer greatly when it comes to hitting and dodging, as you can imagine this is due to having no points in those skills. HP tanks are good for two things, holding areas and being meat shields. Why dont you remove aim from fort battles? Clearly that gives my oponent an unfair advantage to hit me. Why not remove dodge bonuses? This also gives the enemy unfair advantages to dodge my shot.

Point being if you choose to be a HP tank you give up other bonuses to have this large amount of health, heck you cant even do jobs with this build. So before you give out to people try it yourself and see how much we forfeit to be good in fort battles.
 

JoxerTM

I'll explain this for all you non-yet-seemly-expert-fort-fighters out there. HP tanks suffer greatly when it comes to hitting and dodging...
You're plain wrong.

First, there is a default chance to hit of 25 and chance to dodge 10.
You're attacking, and all AP in STR, great, you have high stamina.
0 in leadership? Get close to a soldier who has some leadership (and you can see who has it).
Aim? With equipment only you can boost it over 30.
Dodge, even better than aim - with equipment you'll boost it on 80+!
You're defending? 0 in hiding? Who cares! You have fortification bonuses!

You don't believe me? Check the number of dodges and hits I do and I'm 5K+ HP adventurer with all AP in strenght and 0 SP in dodging. Forget the invisibility bonus, if I was another class I'd still dodge and players still miss me.
And it's plain rediculous. Cap the health ASAP.
 

iwatchhotfuzz

Well-Known Member
Whos going to win, a default aim/dodge bonus or someone spec'd for it? Obviously the latter. 7.7k hp soldier with winchester.

Defending on tower with GG - 7 hits/8 misses
Attacking with GG in sector - 7 hits/8 misses, 31 hits taken/11 dodges
Defending on tower - 7 hits/9 misses

As you can see the tower/gg bonus do diddly squat when your already at a severe disadvantage with aiming/dodging skills.

If you want HP to be capped come over to world 9 and tell everybody that you respeced for nothing and now you will have to do it again. Thanks.

As for the equipment - we're hp tanks for a reason, we happen to pick the equipment with the biggest hp bonus. With my gear now I have 16 aim/22 dodge/19 leadership, hardly effective at all.
 
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Diggo11

InnoGames
As you can see the tower/gg bonus do diddly squat when your already at a severe disadvantage with aiming/dodging skills.
Unfortunately and regretfully I don't think that could be further from the truth. Put it this way:
  • Maxed tower aiming bonus: +28
  • Default aiming bonus: +25
  • Bonus for correct class tower: +20
  • Average internal building bonus: +12
  • Default dodging bonus: +10
  • Standing five fields from target: -7
  • Player with 100 Leadership: +6.3
  • GG sector bonus: +3
It all helps, notably when attacking (hint: hp = strength --> stamina), but health remains far superior every time.
 

-Neo-

Banned
Unfortunately and regretfully I don't think that could be further from the truth.
It all helps, notably when attacking [...] but health remains far superior every time.
indeed. tests between elite players in 1 on 1 battles in opposite own character towers showed that the healthiest prevail.
that said the best set-up seems to be more around 60% hp 40% other FB skills.


Im no coding genius and wouldn't know coding from Chinese. Im sure devs can work it out so this is reversed to make best set-up @ 40% HP and 60% FB skills?

lower levels haven't got a chance as it is, but im sure pure fb lower levels would do a lot better with such a set-up.

i think they should do something similar to duelling whereby combining certain skills gets certain results:
aim and appearance lands a hit
the more you have in aim ad appearance the more likely you are to land a hit.
same for FBs: aim and leadership... or whatever the formulas are...
that way you would have a bigger, more diverse range of players, some better at aiming, some better at dodging...
 
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l8dygaga

Well-Known Member
Defending on tower with GG - 7 hits/8 misses
Attacking with GG in sector - 7 hits/8 misses, 31 hits taken/11 dodges
Defending on tower - 7 hits/9 misses
Looks like w9 is bugged or something... :indian:

EDIT: you gotta build up the towers of course, the bonus for level 0 towers is very low.
 
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JoxerTM

we happen to pick the equipment with the biggest hp bonus.
Sorry but not me. I pick the equipment with biggest total in all skills that are used in fort fight. So as example (no such equipment), I'll take +6 aim and +7 dodge because it's 13 skillpoints total and sell +10 HP clothes.
 

iwatchhotfuzz

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately and regretfully I don't think that could be further from the truth. Put it this way:
  • Maxed tower aiming bonus: +28
  • Default aiming bonus: +25
  • Bonus for correct class tower: +20
  • Average internal building bonus: +12
  • Default dodging bonus: +10
  • Standing five fields from target: -7
  • Player with 100 Leadership: +6.3
  • GG sector bonus: +3
It all helps, notably when attacking (hint: hp = strength --> stamina), but health remains far superior every time.
I know the facts, they just dont seem to match up in actual fort battles and i've seen my fair share with both attacking and defending. Regardless of if im on a tower, the flag, attacking or defending all my hits/misses are usually 50/50 and my hits taken/dodging is about 70%/30% respectively.

Obviously there are going to be battles when my gun starts firing rockets and I have my dancing shoes on but for the most part im only there to block and soak up damage because thats all my build is good for.

Like its been said before if you limit the health skill according to sp the adventurer bonus will far outweigh the extra bit of hp from a soldier, in my opinion. I've seen battles won by 9 adventurers in the tower + a few snipers against 30-35 attackers, if anything needs to be nerfed its Predator's cloaking device.