The Removal of the Stacking Bonus: Blessing or Curse?

DeletedUser23359

Agree with Brutus on that one.. The defence is always at a disadvantage.. they dont know who to put on the towers.. GG's or high Hp.. its not always that a person has both.. You miss out on something all the time.

Defences have been made virtually impossible. The defence bonus is NOTHING infront of the sector bonus when used in attacks. Having high HP is already deadly. Adding to that comes the GG's.

And who are you kidding josh.. Forts are very difficult to defend. All you can rely on is a mistake made by the attackers.

You really think 9 GGs stand a chance against 50 attackers all stacked in one sector? even if they have half the GG's ? With changing times my thoughts have changed to.. I dont really want any removal of the stacking bonus anymore.. but all you need to do is DECREASE IT. So that it has a lesser impact on the game. GG's have started ruling alright. There will be a time when out of 80 attackers.. 60 will be GG's and all others will be treated like .. even removed from the battles like low levels are at times.
 

DeletedUser22685

sanidh I'm guessing your post above is not taking into consideration that all but three battles recorded in the fort overview have been successful defences.
 

DeletedUser

quote from last month:
I'll be leaving the game when my alliance on World 12 is dead. So ya'll will see me for the next two weeks or so.

Overall, the golden gun has ruined fort battles. Because of the bonus it supplies to its sector, the mass production of golden guns drastically shifts the power of a world. A stacked golden gun sector can easily do 2k extra damage a round. Got the most golden guns? Congratulations, you win. Worlds 1-10 are dead. World Arizona has been decimated by the golden gun, World 12 is close behind, and World 11 is on its way. Briscoe was never anything significant to speak of.

The point being made here is the gun is too overpowered. Is it easy to get? Well, its certainly not difficult, now that we know the exact steps and have it advertised in the Quest Discussion section of our forums. All you need is cash, the level, and patience.

Oh, and premium.

There's no problem with everyone having a golden gun. The problem is players tend to group with their experienced friends, who all have the means to get the gun. Meanwhile, other lower level and non-premium players group, who don't have the means to respec (and even then, you have to spec back to a useful build). One side ends up much more powerful than the other.

Throw in the golden gun with previous experience, and you take what was once a great, equally powered world in to a one-sided manslaughter at every fort battle. I'd leave World 12 now but have way too many people counting on me to mail, lead, and [help] run an alliance. After one side has nothing to lose, they'll start deleting their accounts and numbers will drop. Meaning less money for Inno (though they've probably made up all future slack through golden gun respeccing and half-times) and another dead world to add to our extensive list.

In short: The golden gun will be the demise of The West's fort battles. Three cheers for world domination.
i guess it all changed after you started winning a bit.
what will it be next month if you guys start losing again?

ok, ontopic:
obviously there is no way to defend against a big sector stacked with golden guns. a stack like that can kill a small sector/tower in a couple of rounds and the outcome of the battle is already decided.

another thing you're saying Jouais, is that if they remove the GG stack bonus there is too much hp in battles, and you and your adv friends can easly flagrush? well, that is not true. it does not matter the amount of adventurers rushing, because if adv char-bonus triggers on one adv, the next adv will start taking damage too, until his triggers. 1 adv rushing or 5 adv rushing, its all the same.

i think we can have a lot of fun with high hp battles, but lower damage. we will have long battles and everyone will deal a lot of damage, whats isnt more fun then that? :)
 

DeletedUser22685

obviously there is no way to defend against a big sector stacked with golden guns.

That's obviously not true, and if you'd rather be objective than subjective, the evidence is in my above post:

futurama1001 said:
all but three battles recorded in the fort overview have been successful defences.

The ideal way to defend against GGs was demonstrated by IHLAG in the recent battle at Fort Clippy. I won't give you any ideas, you can look it up yourself.
 

DeletedUser23359

sanidh I'm guessing your post above is not taking into consideration that all but three battles recorded in the fort overview have been successful defences.


What succesfull defences are you talking about dude? did you see yesterday's battle?
Paranormal activity was crushed cuz of the GG bonus. WE DID OUR BEST IMHO. BEST I CALL IT. but as i said before.. defences are next to impossible now. they CAN ONLY BE WON IF THE ATTACK makes a MISTAKE. precisely what happened at clippy
 
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DeletedUser

i think you're forgetting the fact we only had 16 GGs stacked at fort clippy, compared to your 24 stacked in yesterdays battle at paranormal activity.
id like to see you guys defend against 24 stacked GGs..

and btw. the battle at fort clippy wasnt good at all on our side
 

DeletedUser22685

What succesfull defences are you talking about dude?

These ones.

theseones.png


And a mistake on the attackers' part can not be blamed on anything but the attackers, if your side is the only one making these mistakes then that's not anyone else's problem.

If I were you I'd be more worried about the results of Sudden Domination (now Suddenly Dell) and even more so Fort Templar (now Evangeline Lilly) than Paranormal activity.
 
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DeletedUser23359

dude more than half of the battles you just showed us had just a handfull attackers compared to the defenders only the three battles you just mentioned above were full fledged attacks. The general at suddenly dell was seriously out of his mind..(mistake) You realize we had 140 people signed up at Fort Clippy. and there were 60 onliners in the chatroom.
 

DeletedUser22685

It proves defences are possible nonetheless.

And if you look at Westforts, there are even more successful defences with relatively equal numbers. Granted, there are far too many attacking wins compared to there would have been before the GGs, but there are enough defences there to prove that they are in fact plausible.
 

DeletedUser23359

So your trying to tell me. Defenders should be relying on a mistake by the attackers to win? What point are you trying to prove?
 

DeletedUser

Man...
Futu, honestly, you look rediculous. I'm clueless why gaga didn't came to tell you some things, but ok, her choice.
All fights you're numbering as a successful defence from gold guns have nothing to do with gold guns. But with health points. Check health points in every single one. Tell me in which one attackers had a significant health points difference (higher) than the defense.

I guess after you check if I'm correct and that defenders' total HP was less or (pretty) equal on attacking side, you'll then start to talk about successful attacks. Again, you'll watch gold gun replays and completely miss the point - it has hardly anything to do with gold guns but with health points. Last example from your list, Miranda Kerr:
http://www.westforts.com/en12/battles/battle/10003

H.p. 313.368 (97%) : 240.788 (97%)

And you're telling me that there *exists* a defense strategy against 70K health difference? Yea, sure. Honey, some newbs will probably believe you.
 
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DeletedUser16008

Really funny thread,

I suspect defenses are indeed possible on occasion, it looks like its more down to attacking mistakes HP or offliners than anything else to be honest tho & I watch plenty of battles from 12 out of interest.

Very true,

"There's no problem with everyone having a golden gun. The problem is players tend to group with their experienced friends, who all have the means to get the gun. Meanwhile, other lower level and non-premium players group, who don't have the means to respec (and even then, you have to spec back to a useful build). One side ends up much more powerful than the other.
Throw in the golden gun with previous experience, and you take what was once a great, equally powered world in to a one-sided manslaughter at every fort battle."

Not to mention lower levels never get a drop or can even be afforded a spot in a battle. Not really much point even going let alone being online for them.

There is only one direction this will go Pandora's box is well and truly open. Not all updates or introductions are good and where forts are concerned its certainly become less and less about a fort build and just about the HP and the weapon... so much for fort skills. If you had a town and wanted to build you local fort youd be absolutely nuts to even bother wasting your time and effort now and thats a shame.

However not nerfing the GG is silly too, so you have a lot of HP monsters on the world, no one said you cant debeef they weren't around in the beginning they dont have to be in the future the problem is of course the players not willing to do that.

Have fun working it all out it was and used to be a lot lot easier and fun for both prem/normal, high and low levels... it's not like that anymore and also why worlds re forts have been dying out faster than they used to.

You can't put the genie back in the bottle and contrary to Jox here saying its nothing to do with GG indeed it is, i will however agree with him it is equally about the HP, there is no def strategy vs a 70K odd advantage if they are online.

Why have i popped in here ? well the same thing has begun in earnest on w10 and other older worlds... Get bored get a GG, respec to pure HP and off you go all very sad really.:hmf:
 

DeletedUser23359

Victor Kruger.. Everything you said just clicked.. agree.. fully
 

DeletedUser

Well.......alliance lack off succes on w12 lately also has a lot to do with some players that quit recently. Some off the veterans and most important fort fighters has quit lately. Alliance used to have more GGs than IHLG by the way. Situation just seems to have been reversed lately.

Still thinks that the GGs makes attacks to easy tough. It just does not fill right for me that towers are at a disadvantage compared to the attackers in attack and defence values.
 

DeletedUser

i guess it all changed after you started winning a bit.
what will it be next month if you guys start losing again?

ok, ontopic:
obviously there is no way to defend against a big sector stacked with golden guns. a stack like that can kill a small sector/tower in a couple of rounds and the outcome of the battle is already decided.

another thing you're saying Jouais, is that if they remove the GG stack bonus there is too much hp in battles, and you and your adv friends can easly flagrush? well, that is not true. it does not matter the amount of adventurers rushing, because if adv char-bonus triggers on one adv, the next adv will start taking damage too, until his triggers. 1 adv rushing or 5 adv rushing, its all the same.

i think we can have a lot of fun with high hp battles, but lower damage. we will have long battles and everyone will deal a lot of damage, whats isnt more fun then that? :)

HP was smaller then. High HP battles and damage won't happen: A. Not unless The Alliance begins showing again and B. Not if we rush the flag from the start. Of course it didn't change as soon as we started winning. I said the GG was going to destroy battles. The world adapted, and now the removal of it will destroy the world. The problem used to be too little HP, and now will be too much HP. It is certain that the GG will destroy the world through HP, either by having too little or too much.

WE DID OUR BEST IMHO. BEST I CALL IT. but as i said before.. defences are next to impossible now. they CAN ONLY BE WON IF THE ATTACK makes a MISTAKE. precisely what happened at clippy

So your trying to tell me. Defenders should be relying on a mistake by the attackers to win? What point are you trying to prove?

The point is you need to let people lead who know what they're doing. Djrowland and Jimmyclever are the first two who come to mind. The majority of our defenses have had huge mistakes in the attacks, and yes, we have relied on that. Its become something we expect -- going north and south at the same time, for example. Or trying to go north during a large battle while a pure HP advent blocks, high HP tanks are stacked against the north wall ready to swap, and the attack is getting wiped out by the DT and crits for 5-6 rounds. Possibly that's why The Alliance has rolled over and died -- leadership.

And who's been leading these battles? We all know. No need to name.

Victor Kruger.. Everything you said just clicked.. agree.. fully

He was siding with me. Quoted me here, took my side about players not wanting to de-beef (mainly because their opposition won't), and said the HP will kill battles. He said you can technically de-beef, but nobody is willing to let their opponent have a bigger HP advantage than them, even if the HP is killing battles.

You can't defend against the HP on the world, and can't attack when people stop showing up. That is what Vic said... is it not? And that's what I've been saying... right?

How is it you agree with Vic and disagree with me, even though we're taking the same stance? You have completely lost me here sanid.
 

DeletedUser

the more GGs in a fight the more imbalanced the attack vs defense will be. defense hold smaller sectors which means less bonuses, while attackers start in big sectors, and will pretty much crush defense in 1-2 rounds.
one of the main reasons you guys are winning these days is because you have both GG advantage and hp advantage, just take a look at the battle replays and you will see.
a way to prevent people from specing pure health is to balance the skills more. implement new FF skills, or improve the effect from the ones we already got.
 

DeletedUser22685

That's what I was trying to get across, and I was told that I was ridiculous and that you should have taught me some stuff. What's this Joxer? Gaga's saying the same?
 
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