The new No Pushing rule

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DeletedUser

I'm sorry if this is the wrong forum for this. I looked around and this seemed the best spot for this discussion.

New rules:
* It is not allowed to take your clothes and weapons off with the intent to lose a duel on purpose.
* It is not allowed to purposely let yourself be dueled in an attempt to lose money
* It is not allowed to purposely duel someone and lose in an attempt to lose money

Why are you guys telling me I cannot lose a duel on purpose? What's it matter if I lose a duel on purpose or not? Isn't that one of the nice things about dueling level - if I lose several duels to someone lower than me, then isn't the balance here that his new artificially high dueling level makes him extremely attractive to people who out-equip him?

Is it a bad thing that when I'm low on health/energy/motivation I knock myself out and then I can job for 48 hours peacefully?

What's the difference between KO'ing myself on purpose to avoid being dueled and leaving town to avoid being dueled? Or going to sleep to avoid being dueled?

Isn't the rule of purposely losing a duel *extremely* subjective, to the point that it's going to make life especially difficult for the admin(s)?

Now you're going to have to judge whether or not someone tried to lose a duel. If I throw my level 58 guy at a level 72 guy who has Hernando's sword when I know I have no chance, is that illegal now? Or is it legal since I didn't remove my clothes? Same outcome, isn't it? What if I wield a 1-7 damage pebble instead of my precise peacemaker or whatever?

I understand that these new rules are probably the result of a big money scam that was recently uncovered, but it seems to me that this stuff should be coded. You're basically implementing ethics into the game and that is going to be hell to regulate.
 
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DeletedUser

czaz said:
New rules:
* It is not allowed to take your clothes and weapons off with the intent to lose a duel on purpose.
* It is not allowed to purposely let yourself be dueled in an attempt to lose money
* It is not allowed to purposely duel someone and lose in an attempt to lose money
Click to expand...

any need ??
 

DeletedUser

bk200 said:
any need ??
Click to expand...

Yes. A lot of towns have gotten huge amounts of XP using prearranged duels against each other and it is a real issue.

Of course, making a rule against it is no guarantee it will prevent abuse, just like we still have multis despite the rule against them...right czaz?
 

DeletedUser

Elmyr said:
Of course, making a rule against it is no guarantee it will prevent abuse, just like we still have multis despite the rule against them...right czaz?
Click to expand...
Just like we have rules of no talking about bans, and yet we have Staff Members breaking that rule often, huh Elmyr?
 

DeletedUser

I didn't see any ban talk.:huh:
As for this new rule, I think it is about time. I for one think it's a shame people were allowed to get away with fixed duels for XP gain for so long, and I am glad they will now have to play the game the same as everyone else if they wish to level up.

I think the rule has to be stated as it is in order to catch the culprits involved, or otherwise they would find too many excuses for their behaviour, you will just have to stop deliberately losing fights for whatever apparently legitimate reason you would do such a thing. This rule change was hinted at by Eisweisel a couple of months ago, so to assume it is a knee-jerk reaction to some cheating that was uncovered in the last few days is ridiculous.
 

DeletedUser

The difference is easy:

The things they have mentioned are all used to illicitly gain XP and/or transfer money.

By sleeping in a town to avoid a duel no one else gains XP or money they haven't "earned".

Yes, there might actually be a couple of small valid reasons to go naked and duel someone. But there are a lot more invalid.
 

DeletedUser

I wholeheartedly agree it's a good goal to stop people from gaining huge xp from "pushing" duels. But is the best solution for it really just making a rule against it and forcing the admins to decide who did and who did not intentionally lose a duel?
 

DeletedUser

Options:

1) Continue doing nothing
2) Make a rule and allow admins to make a judgement call


The benefits of 2 far outweigh the negative of losing one small tactics for avoiding duels.
 

DeletedUser

Maybe we need more detail on how they're going to police it.

If A removed all gears and attack B then admin will ban both players? Only player A or only player B?

If it is a ban of player A, it won't be effective since a cheater can just create tons of "multi" characters then use those to push exp/money to B.

If it is a ban of both or B, then it can be used to get your enemies banned. Someone can create multiple A and then use them to push exp to B which is their enemies. Result: Player B got banned.
 

DeletedUser

there are many possibilities
and also some of pushing duelers and premium ones
and it will require a lot of admin work
and also there are many inter-town competitions like this (some are started my admins)
 

DeletedUser

I'm quite sure that the in-game mods have become profficient in determining which players are multis of each other by looking at IP addresses and log in times by now, so I wouldn't worry too much about people continuing to abuse the system, provided someone notices and reports them.
 

DeletedUser

I was responding to VRaverna. Sorry bk, in future I will check if you are online before I reply to a post, so that I can allow for meaningless spam to be inserted randomly between each message.
 
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DeletedUser

Since it's a discussion, here's an example, not explicitly forbidden by the rules:

- Is it legal to lose a duel on purpose, for other reasons than pushing the opponent with XP and/or money?

Someone said that getting KO'd to avoid getting dueled, so they can work on making money, should be legal.
My example (and I used it in the past) was getting KO'd on purpose in a town 8 hours away, so I can "teleport" back in my town. I wasn't taking my clothes and weapon off (winning a couple of duels is better then losing all), but it was a KO on purpose.

And another example: when a fort battle starts between two towns I have no affiliation with, is it legal for my town members to join the battle, half on one side and half on the other side, to increase experience? (the last fort battle I took part in, we were 62 vs 1, and players were disappointed because of lack of action).
 

DeletedUser

bk200 said:
and also there are many inter-town competitions like this (some are started my admins)
Click to expand...
The boxing match in world 9 on the forums is not in violation of the rule as no one is purposely losing or trying to get KO'd.
 

DeletedUser

A few months ago there was a suggestion to make duels more transparent by making the mortuary contain a report of the duels for the previous x many hours. If this was implemented then "pushed " duels would be easier to find and suspicious dueling behavior would no doubt be flagged;)
 

DeletedUser

A simpler, more desirable fix, IMO... diminishing returns:

A duels B for the first time today. A or B gets 100% of the xp/cash (after motivation).
A duels B for the 2nd time today. A or B gets 75%-90% of the xp/cash (after motivation).
A duels B for the 3rd time today. A or B gets 25% of the xp/cash (after motivation).
A duels B for the 4th time today. A or B gets 0% of the xp/cash.

This makes dueling someone worth it for the first and second times in a day, but the third time quickly becomes not really worth your time and the fourth time obviously gives you no gain. Such a system removes subjective judgement and thus creates much less work for the admins (because I guarantee you, you're gonna get 90% or higher appeal rate on punishments for this). It doesn't eliminate the problem, but it makes it much more labor-intensive and more noticeable when someone repeatedly duels the same person day after day.
 
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