The Dueling System - Wrongs and Solutions.

DeletedUser16008

The Dueling System - Wrongs and Solutions.

This is for the ones that are actually interested in making dueling what it used to be, a fun and exciting part of the game.

We'll make it simple. You guys pick a single part of the current dueling system you dislike, or don't think is working properly. Keeping things as simple as possible is key, the more you mess with things the bigger the problems it throws up.

If you have a solution to the problem, you explain it. If not, just point out the wrong, and we'll leave that for the Dev's although id rather not. What we need is a proper solution presented here not more craziness.

Once we have pretty much summed the whole dueling system up in Wrongs and Solutions we will send it off to the dev's.

Since I know you guys have already posted like a million posts on this, feel free to copy paste from old threads
But keep it short.

Example
- Problem: Blah blah blah
- Solutions: Blah, blah, blah.. (Or leave it empty if you have no idea how it could be solved..)

This is a very very simple fix imo, you go back to basics and the best system and change as little as possible and only absolutely that which is definitely required.

Ill start,

Problems.

1 Nothing skillwise now works as it should.

2 Resist is still only overpowered due to other skills not working properly.

3 Randomness and luck is now too much a part in dueling.

4 Horrible lack of dueling build variety.

5 Secondary Duel skills such as tactics and appearance are now almost useless.


Changes that ruined everything started in 1.32 here http://forum.the-west.net/showthread.php?t=47207

The important bit and solution

This is a very very simple fix imo, you go back to basics and the best system and change as little as possible and only absolutely that which is definitely required.If its not broke you do not change whats ok. Making this as simple as possible for the devs and everyone else.

So.. we use with what was the best duel system where most of the above problems did not occur and start from there and change what is required but only that.. This would be 1.31.... so

Solution.

1. Roll back to 1.31 to begin with

2. Leave the resist formula as it currently is now.


This brings Dodge Aim back in line with the secondary dueling skills allowing for more diverse builds and nerfs the resist build which was always required but not by so much it is useless.

That is all that really needs to be done in the first place and gives the most diversification for dueling builds and player build enjoyment, 2 steps thats all it needs imo, which can be done with the minimum of effort and implemented on a simple patch.
 
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DeletedUser

That's going to be difficult victor since no one but the devs know what the heck was changed and how it effects skills, equipment etc. But I agree it is totally messed up and needs to be corrected. But Alas the children in the development department are too busy with 2.0 and apparently can not be bothered with improvements. Guys if it ain't broke don't fix it OK!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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DeletedUser

Solution.

1. Roll back to 1.31 to begin with

2. Leave the resist formula as it currently is now.


This brings Dodge Aim back in line with the secondary dueling skills allowing for more diverse builds and nerfs the resist build which was always required but not by so much it is useless.

That is all that really needs to be done in the first place and gives the most diversification for dueling builds and player build enjoyment, 2 steps thats all it needs imo, which can be done with the minimum of effort and implemented on a simple patch.

I know you are looking for ideas Vic but You've summed it up for me, I can't add anything.
 

DeletedUser

once again vic you prove that you know what you are doing and are a vital peice to keeping this game alive for some of us. I cant add anything to what you said your way is perfect. GO VIC
 

DeletedUser

I agree. Vic's summed it all up in one post, in short, roll back to 1.36 and listen to the players from there. End of story.
 

DeletedUser26426

There could be other changes as well, other than the ones mentioned by vic, but that's the way to start though.
Nice initiative ! :)
 

DeletedUser22493

I really wish I dueled in 1.31, so I could compare, but could someone elaborate how that was different from what it is now?
 

DeletedUser33353

Agreed Vic...but as we both know, once the genie is loosed...not easily returned to the bottle.
 

DeletedUser

I really wish I dueled in 1.31, so I could compare, but could someone elaborate how that was different from what it is now?

old way-
-appearance and tactics worked
-if you aimed correct you hit against another dueler
-if you dueled a non dueler you would win
-if you aim all right you shot all right
-vigor or shooting builds were equal
-resistance was not the best build
-aim worked with appearance and tactics
-dodge worked with appearance and tactics
-if you got dueled by another dueler and you were in work cloths you lost(they had more aim, dodge, appearance then you

new dueling
-appearance and tactics dont work(used to give you a bonus)
-if you aim all right you might land a hit on left
-if you duel a non dueler you have a 50% chance to loose
-if you aimed correctly against there dodge you have a 50% chance of landing a hit no matter how much aim you have
-vigor builds arent as good as dexterity builds
-resistance is the best build now, it has always been a build where you only needed to get lucky and land one hit to win, now you land a lot more then one hit
-if you are naked with no cloths on you can still win a duel agaianst a real good dueler


dueling now doesnt seem to use any of the skills they said were going to be more powerful

aim- add 500 plus aim and you will not hit anymore times then if you had 250
dodge- add 500 plus to dodge and guess what that person with 250 aim will land hits

inno you suck
 

DeletedUser22685

-if you aim all right you might land a hit on left
-if you duel a non dueler you have a 50% chance to loose

This should not be possible unless I am mistaken, are you sure that happened?

kingjamesg said:
aim- add 500 plus aim and you will not hit anymore times then if you had 250
dodge- add 500 plus to dodge and guess what that person with 250 aim will land hits

This is because of the skill curve, similar to fort skills but on a lesser extent. Eventually the curve starts going backwards, so if it were possible to put a thousand SP in a dodging, you'd dodge worse than if you had 300.

I would suggest the exact same solution as Vic.

Problem: Appearance and tactics don't work, a win or loss is decided by luck, there is no skill involved in speccing a duel build anymore.
Solution: Leave the resistance formula as it now, but return everything else back to the way it was. The update was intended as a resistance nerf, they didn't need to touch anything else in the first place.
 

DeletedUser22493

Ive had it happen to me, but only because when I set my targets and the dueled, for some reason it didn't "save" the targets i set, and went back to what I previously had.
Server reading error or something. A bug, not something intended, and not something that should be on this list.

And what you say about having 50% chance to loosing to a non dueler? Ive never had that happen to me. I had a dex build tho, so perhaps melee is harder, if you hit fort fighters. They got toughness.
A good all-round dex build cannot be beaten by a "non dueler". And what is a non dueler? You can always stumble upon players with points placed in lucky places.
 
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DeletedUser22685

Yeah, the bug where one of your stance positions doesn't save correctly the first time has been around for a long time and is unrelated to the new duel system. I always make sure I exit out of the duel window and open it again to check my stances have saved before I go ahead and duel someone.

I wouldn't say there's a 50% chance of losing to a non-dueller, the chances are much lower than that but still much higher than they used to be due to the possibility to get lucky now.
 

DeletedUser

Roll back to Version 1.31---> Problem Solved.

I agree totally with you vic I hope they implement it because I want to quit dueling if it goes on like this.It's much worse in Version 2.0..
 

DeletedUser16628

All that needs to be said on this subject has been said by Vic and Kingjames as far as what I think needs to happen.I will say that I pretty much stopped dueling once I started getting smoked by non duelers.
 
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