The Brain Farts - Brainstorm of ideas here

Discussion in 'Ideas & Brainfarts' started by Good Feather, Nov 18, 2010.

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  1. Ryan Collins Einarsson

    Ryan Collins Einarsson New Member

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    The game is all about America in its early years, so I think it would be great if there was an option of changing the date format used in the game. When I see the date as displayed in the attached image, I get confused. As is known, in the U.S. the order in which dates are given is this: month/day/year.

    date_format.png

    What do you think?
     
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  2. Iam Keyser Soze

    Iam Keyser Soze Well-Known Member

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    That would be easier for many of us, I admit there are times I have to stop and think about the date :confused:

    But the date and times are done the way they are to synchronize the game worlds for every player no matter what country/time zone they are in.

    And if your easily confused like me :p it actually helps to be on the same page as others.
     
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  3. Pankreas PorFavor

    Pankreas PorFavor Well-Known Member

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    That's why it would make the most sense to list the dates everywhere in the same way like it is on that screenshot under the number of achievement points - 10 Aug 18 or similar (dd/MMM/yy).
     
  4. deiben

    deiben Well-Known Member

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    Great suggestion. Eliminates confusion.
    And go to military time on quest requirements. No more, "It's available from 2:00 to 10:00"....
    It's either available from 0200-1000 or from 1400-2200.
    Military time is international and global. Adding "am" or "pm" after a time is just extra keystrokes when bullets are flying and bombs are dropping.
     
  5. cpt.N3M0

    cpt.N3M0 Member

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    HI GUYS!!

    I havent read all the 57 pages or seen that idea somewhere soo i will put in on the table!
    With my experience of that game that come from w4 , from "eldorado" and right now directly from "colorado" meanwhile studying balance of sistems , mathematich , art and last but not least the mechanichs of that rpg card game called "the west"....
    i come up with some problems and maybe a solution that wouldnt took even too much work to be applied!

    the main problems i found are:
    -the trend of increasing the event sets % bonus ; at the begin was less than +0.9 point/level now some get up to 3 or 4, mantaining more balance forts and duels sets.
    -the low variety of duels sets ; the duel sistem could allow 50-60 different combination of skill but actually the more powerfull are 3-4 .
    -the big cauldron of shops items that is not used


    soo the solution i come up with in the last 3 mounth of game balancing struggling is : (drumrolls)
    -IMPLEMENTING TO ALL THE SHOPS ITEM % POINTS/LEVELS STATS

    That's a preatty self explanatory implementation !
    It could took me 4-5 days , me alone ( paid :D ) !
    The only requirement is a base statistic work to change all the numbers and made some variety on the category of duels set from shop.

    The rules that should be respected are simple:
    - calculate an everage of that particular stats from every events sets and add to that the everage bonus from the all sets(of that particular skill) divide with the amount of the sets component(a level of bonus skill lower than what they actually are)
    -try to rearrange some duel items to make possible some more variety
    -decide a level required to use item where you start implementing this feature

    ADVANTAGES FROM THAT IDEA:
    -you (innogames) could keep the game alive doing keeping the trend of %point/level event set increasing esponentially(i dont recomend to do that too much , for obvious problem)
    -it take a very little amount of work for a huge balancing path
    -player could have more free will to decide how to use the skill of their character if they want to duel
    -the items of the shops and the sistems of upgrade would be used more , not only for fort guns (items upgrade still bring you nuggets )
    -there could be new trend of splitting sets component , you already added a nice feature adding some particular bonus to a single item

    i am not able to see disadvantages but i posted there to open the discussion...


    only for staffs members :
    i am searching for a part-time job, i would like to enter in to the world of games art.
    i studied arts by my self through all the years of my life ... i havent got a site portfolio but if you want i will create one
    to share you my ability.
    just few days ago i sold a painting that paid me an entire year at the university
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2018
  6. DanteNightroad

    DanteNightroad Well-Known Member

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    your idea does not seem to be addressing the main problems you found.
     
  7. cpt.N3M0

    cpt.N3M0 Member

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    explain better please... like this seems that you dont like it regardless
     
  8. DanteNightroad

    DanteNightroad Well-Known Member

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    How does "IMPLEMENTING TO ALL THE SHOPS ITEM % POINTS/LEVELS STATS" balance the game and if it does balance it how is it not a temp fix until the next sets.
     
  9. cpt.N3M0

    cpt.N3M0 Member

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    Because after that patch you dont have a single horse that run in a straight line but 2 that will run in a circle!
    where someone that upgrade patched item from the shop can boost his horse to reach the other!
    When i thoght that , i got some limits and purpose... but generally i think that you can even adds new room for new shop item if you shorten the actual level scaling .

    i thought it was preatty clear :D
     

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  10. DanteNightroad

    DanteNightroad Well-Known Member

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    It's not to me. If anyone wants to chime in with an explanation, please do so. My best guess is that you want to a way to boost old items so they can stay competitive with the new. unpatchabe category would need to be added to new sets so same boosts are not used on them until they are deemed too old,etc. at best it seems like a new money sink and is unlikely to balance the game.

    In other words you want to add item sockets and gems that can be put into those sockets for added bonus. since there would be different times of gems people would rarely have 2 of the same items (at leas in theory)? Is that what you mean?
     
  11. Pankreas PorFavor

    Pankreas PorFavor Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Dante, I don't really understand.
    And what (I think) I do understand - it doesn't really fix anything. So what if you upgrade "item X" and at level 5 it will have the same stats like "tombola item 1"? New tombola comes up at Day of the dead - your "item X L5" is underpowered and you wasted $2 million on upgrades. And then another tombola, and another tombola... I don't see the point? Why would Innogames do it and where's the benefit for the players? What am I missing?
     
  12. cpt.N3M0

    cpt.N3M0 Member

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    you got the normal item: unused , useless and a waste for their database.
    you got the event item that will increase constantly over time their power or in the distribution of the skill.

    than you take a normal item of level 127 and you patch it .... you put his skill/point to 1.2 , way ... way over
    the 0.7 or 0.5 that actual event items have BUT the event item are competitive if used as a set because you get
    big bonus ; like resistance or bonus exp, bonus dmg ecc...duels and ff item should be more balanced that mine example...
    no you got the competition between 2 horse!
    upgrading you get enormous bonus but just on skills !

    than you let pass time!
    you will have over time sets that reach ,with single item stats , the range of skill that patched give..
    at this point you slide the patched item down on level and you create new sets of shops item with higher buff
    that compete with the full event sets....
    than when you fully fill the possible combination of skill or a level of % point/level that is still reasonable you stop...
    or in the other possibility you can keep increasing both and what now seems insane bonus will became normality!
    the second possibility require maybe fort fight , duels and works function to be rearranged in long terms.... but is still valid!
     
  13. Pankreas PorFavor

    Pankreas PorFavor Well-Known Member

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    will the event items be better than upgraded normal items?
    if yes - just like today, nobody will upgrade normal items and they will stay unused.
    if no (or if difference is very small) - people won't spend nuggets on event items because they will just upgrade normal items = no profit for Innogames.
    in both cases, this change doesn't seem justified.
    unless I am missing something?
     
  14. cpt.N3M0

    cpt.N3M0 Member

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    ARE YOU READING?
    i explained it 3 times! and its really clear !
    you are clearly trying to provocate me... be constructive !
    sorry but i havent got time if you cant read carefully or once more....

    PANKREAS, you take a normal item of level 127 and you patch it .... you put his skill/point to 1.2 , way ... way over
    the 0.7 or 0.5 that actual event items have BUT the event item are competitive if used as a set because you get
    big bonus ; like resistance or bonus exp, bonus dmg ecc...duels and ff item should be more balanced that mine example...
    no you got the competition between 2 horse!
    upgrading you get enormous bonus but just on skills !
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  15. Pankreas PorFavor

    Pankreas PorFavor Well-Known Member

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    first, stop shouting.
    second, I already read what you wrote, copy/paste makes no difference if you cannot explain it better or give real examples.
    third, if you think that a different opinion is a provocation, you better disconnect from the internet ;) nobody is trying to provoke you, I am only trying to understand the options you're proposing, it's a normal discussion, don't lose your nerves.

    maybe the part of the problem is trying to understand your English, maybe it is you who doesn't understand me, or both?
    so here is how I understand it: patched/upgraded Blue coat will give you hundreds of skill points in shooting, dodging and aim - more than you would get from McCanles vest. But, full McCanles clothes set also gives you a bonus in shooting, dodging, aim etc.

    and one more time:
    using upgraded/patched normal items (more skill points, more attribute points) - would it be better than wearing a tombola set (less skill/attribute points per individual item, but with bonus)?
    if the answer is yes - Innogames doesn't want to do it because they lose money.
    if the answer is no - players will not use this option.

    10 normal shop items gives X skill/attribute points
    10 tombola set items + bonus gives Y skill/attribute points (and luck/damage/labor points/experience... bonuses)
    X=Y, X>Y, X<Y or...?

    yes, I understand this offers greater variety, bigger selection of useful items, an influence on in-game economics etc. but it all boils down to one point - if you're doing a job, duel, fort battle - which gear would give you better results?
     
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  16. DanteNightroad

    DanteNightroad Well-Known Member

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    ok so my new understanding seems to be that you want "overpowered" "common" type items like [Billy the Kid's skull belt], they will have a lot more AP/SP then ongoing event sets but the event sets will still be competitive because as sets they will have added bonus? This seems a lot less elegant than what I was envisioning and still has all the issues previously mentioned.

    Do you just patch items at every new event? seems like an endless chase with no real benefit. This conversation was had back when golden weapons got too weak and when howder (of whatever its called) shotgun became too weak,etc will probably be had again once chefs knives became weak. adding lots of AP to [Prairie Pants] is not going to do anything substantial when it comes to game balance.

    Inno seems to already found a way of keeping common shop items relevant by having quests that require them and consume those items for completion.

    side note: Im still waiting for those adventure updates promised to us, what feels like a year and half ago.
     
  17. cpt.N3M0

    cpt.N3M0 Member

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    My english is not the best , it's not my first language... but i used MAIUSC to emphasize the importance of a good lecture of the huge ammount of probability i gave you !
    AND BY THE WAY that is a constructive answer!

    that is all we need , the free will to decide what item's card give us the best result in a situation... sometimes is an event set , other time is an item from the shop that could be upgraded later.
    with better words you choose item depending on how much you want from a situation, if you want more you use nuggets for strange bonus ... if you dont want you still have the perception to be on an even game, where spending real money doesnt really matter even if it does....
    this was the ending result needed!

    if we started our discussion with this problems:
    1-the trend of increasing the event sets % bonus ; at the begin was less than +0.9 point/level now some get up to 3 or 4, mantaining more balance forts and duels sets.
    2-the low variety of duels sets ; the duel sistem could allow 50-60 different combination of skill but actually the more powerfull are 3-4 .
    3-the big cauldron of shops items that is not used


    I found a solution because X>Y:
    1-the shop's items are brought back into a usefull state
    2-the innogames has a lot of room to create more event sets gaining nuggets as long as they will add some new sets of item in shops(they still got the monopoly set bonus, more dmg in duel , more dodging chance ecc...)
    3-sliding backward items in shops and making new event and shops items will provide more variety

    it is an endless chase with no real benefit! WTF is a game? is an endless chase with no real benefit that produce fun on the player and force him to solve some problems or fight against other player!
    i dont mean the bond shops! i mean the cauldron of town's shop's items!
    you really think that using this items for mission bring them into the game? seriously ? :D

    the idea work and really well in my opinion.... the problem now is how i can send it to an ear that is connected to an hand ..... because this game will reach a critical state after 3-4 events
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  18. Pankreas PorFavor

    Pankreas PorFavor Well-Known Member

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    free will to decide what gives best results? no, you do not have that free will in this case, ffs!? your free will won't increase the damage of a precise colt dragoon, or give more skill points to fancy army pants and make them more useful for a job/duel/fort battle?!
    patched army pants + sigil belt + stetson + blablabla ... in total, will it give more skill points/attribute points than a tombola set (bonus included)? yes or no? it is such a simple question... I can't believe that it's so hard to answer it.

    there is a number of items available - shop items, tombola items, quest items, and there is only one single best combination that gives the most labor points, or most aim/dodge/appearance/health....
    and a simple question I am asking and you cannot answer - if your proposal is implemented, would it be possible to get better results with regular shop items that you buy with in-game money, than it would be if you used tombola items that you buy with real money (nuggets)? there are two possible answers.
    yes, with normal items you buy in your town's tailor shop/general store/gunsmith you will be able to find more valuable items and earn more money/experience on jobs; yes, with shop items you will have an advantage in duels/fort battles/adventures..... in that case - Innogames loses money and doesn't want to implement this change.
    no, tombola items and items bought with nuggets will still have an advantage on jobs/fort battles/duels/adventures.. in that case - players won't bother with shop items.

    I understand, shop items won't give you a resistance or damage bonus, luck or experience bonus, or labor points like sets can give. but, with enough skill/attribute points, you can compensate for most of these bonuses. would we be able to get those extra skill/attribute points from shop items? for example, would it be possible to compensate the absence of resistance bonus with hiding/setting traps we'd get from shop items? compensate fort damage bonus with extra leadership points from shop items? instead of using set items which give a bonus of +150 labor points on any job, would it be possible to compensate these by getting more swimming/stamina/animal instinct/whatever from shop items? and other examples I am not going to list here. would it be possible if your proposal is implemented?

    I don't know how to make my point more clear, does anyone else understand what I am trying to say?

    X>Y in my question means shop items are better than tombola items.
    this is your proposal? makes no sense for Innogames.
    your second point says that new event sets will have to compete against shop items. why would they do that? new set items today compete with old set items. you're basically just proposing that Innogames has to invent more new items - not only for tombolas, but also for shops, and if they want to make any money on this game, tombola items MUST be better than shop items.
    if tombola sets give value 1, and then they invent shop items that will give 1.1, and then new tombola that gives 1.2, new shop items 1.3, etc. why on Earth would they do this if they can just have tombolas that go 1 - 1.1 - 1.2 ..... ?
    "Innogames has a lot of room to create more event sets" - they already have that space, they don't need to mess with shop items for that...
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  19. cpt.N3M0

    cpt.N3M0 Member

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    why the hell is that complicated?
    yes, event sets will be stronger when you complete it... but shops item will be stronger picked singularly.... take the graph i did...
    and they will give you extra bonus.
    special bonus like % bonus money , resistance , +x attack in ff , +%exp ecc.. will be presentonly in events sets even if you buy an item from the shop and you upgrade all the 8-9 item to get the same amount of points ... you got a choice but is not a forced choice!
    the answer is that yes event sets will be stronger but if you want to play a free to play game you can because you re not too far behind buying items that dont give you that super strenght but in the other hand you re not crap... that is possible even now but sets are growing too much and someone that come at this game say:"why there're shops item that are soo useless? that is a pay to win game! goodbye , i leave!"
    there is no binary answer for your question! the binary answer is " it will work " for a tons of reason...
    but your question is more fuzzy.... (free will)nuggets will give you a lot of benifit but if you want to play without you re not miles away and you dont see 5 player that win against 80 in fort fight even without buildings buffs...its balancing, you leave room for gaining money now and for the future to inno but you create balancing for the one that are enjoying the game in otherway
     
  20. Pankreas PorFavor

    Pankreas PorFavor Well-Known Member

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    it is not complicated at all, that's why I was asking for a simple straight answer which you partially gave below:

    don't you see the problem with this?
    Innogames has 0 interest to implement something like this. The West already was a game where free players were able to compete very well with those who spent money on it, just look at the state of the game and number of players in 2011 for example. Innogames doesn't want a game where free players are 95% as strong as paying players.
    I thought it was obvious from my first posts - why would Innogames do it if it reduces their profit? Innogames is not here for players who will upgrade a nickel plated tomahawk, they are here for players who will buy level 3 chef's weapons :(

    also, even free to play players today can complete event sets, and that makes it less likely that they will use the option with shop items as they will focus on completing the sets.
    if the situation is upgraded shop items < complete event set < upgraded event set, then even free players will focus on the middle option, just like today.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018