Stuck in first gear for life

[DeletedUser563]

I know there is whole topic about placate shaman etc. There is even one about lowering the shaman. Yet I still see no real action. I think that you might think that this forum is really representative of world 1. But I doubt it as I hardly see any serious players of world 1 here. What about other options. Yearly reset with the holiday seasons on the way. I think that the players that want to keep it classic dont keep thread with a couple of issues.
1.Astronomical sp and ap cost is really a pain. My sp is currently at 670 but I have completed most quests. Ap is around 2800 or something.
2. The achievement rewards brings another strain on our funds.
3. Players that really play the game (complete quests, fort fighting, dueling) hardly ever have money as they need to buy the best gear etc. Because of our high level of involvement (high end jobs then fort fighting / xp hunting) we never really explore money making schemes like crafts etc. I for one even hate working on crafts that have little xp as I know the person in front of me wont as well as the player 1 below me in ranking. Hell I hardly ever run to my town before going to a fort battle which means the 4000 or so I made goes into bayonets or whatever is in the market. I probably could buy sp each day but at 670 and rising it just too damn expensive except if your going to do nothing else (no quest / no collectors items) i.e. effect zombie mode.
4. For some of us this is still our main world. So we dont really share these romantic notions some have of the world.
5. Ever diminishing numbers. The tougher the world the lower the numbers. The problem is new players quickly pick up that everything here takes longer. So they rather would join a world that has placate shaman .
6. Why was players allowed to change their dueling skills but quest requirements and achievements is ignored.
7. The longer you keep changes off the more players resent innogames and the developers of the west. This leads to more players breaking the rules etc etc.

I have deleted all my older posts as I see there is a concerted effort by V2/Derek1982 to tank this thread . ALSO PLEASE DO NOT DISCUSS ME DISCUSS THE IDEA. So here in short the other real posters comments:

I disagree. By introducing any changes that would lessen the costs of sp's or ap's would result in the world no longer being 'Classic'.
In world 1 there has always only been two ways to radically change your characters stats:
1 - Spend a long time and a lot of money to change your skills one by one; or
2 - Reset your character and start again.
For the sake of the players who have had to do these drastic steps in the long history of world 1 there should be no changes.

My answer further motivation:
Even with long term planning you cannot plan for every future occurrence. Lets say in the next update they bring in a quest that requires you to do for instance construct a mission. With the pilgrims set most melee duelers will be able to do it but a person invested into shooting and charisma won't . Lets say that it rewards 10 sp's. Now I can do it. Every player in other worlds can quickly change their skills to do it. But poor you who have zero skills in the jobs will have to seriously start to reskill. It may take you month it may intervere with your real long term plan meaning it will take you a couple of months to return to the status quo you where before the forced respec. Meaning you will have first to return to your former position before going to your real long term plan. But lets say you are completing the quests and they introduce a further quests that ask you to do the same job with say 7 SP'S and a new set item that relieves a lot of problems in your day to day activity. And yes this already happened or did you really think everyone could do breaking up gangs. Then you need a lot of money to get further set items for achievements.
This leads to my mindset atm ." Should I return to my former build and my final build plan""Yes but keep hiding skills drop traveling merchant jobs tradings skills. So now I have 236 in hiding. Ok but I want some of the achievable items in the collectors set as well. But I have zero money as I spend almost 100k in respeccing. So now I cant respec anymore till I complete that. By that time they may introduce another quests. I play a game I want to be able to complete the quests of the game. That means I need to respec with each change that is introduced and I need to do it within an acceptable timeframe. Your not only catering for super patient players are you/hence everyone leaving this world for greener pastures.

So you want to say seriously to me that I should expect months to do this . That this kind of old fashioned thoughts still belong in this game. I disagree and I vehemently disagree. The modern game requires placate shaman in one form or another. Placate shaman makes your build flexible so that you actually wait for it "PLAY THE GAME". I have in the past played this game for about 12 months without being able to complete a quest. I do not want to return to that. Other players advanced at a faster rate than me as I then had only crappy jobs available to me. That changed. So why this desperate clinging to a system that simple does not work in the game. Furthermore you will see I suggest a very expensive placate shaman 200 nuggets. That will bring in for players like me who uses nuggets but sparingly an oppurtunity to from time to time reset their ap and sp cost. It does not make 1 build today and the opposite in the next day possible. That means compromise.

in summary I really think we can no longer put of changes. With achievements , new quests ,duel requirements etc its no longer I think an option that this world should remain on its death knell path.

Here is my proposals:
A. A wold wide in game vote to establish whether most people wants
1 normal placate shaman
2. Lowering of the shaman
3. Expensive placate shaman - 200 nuggets
4.Quarterly or yearly reset.
5. No change

Thereafter with other current proposals they should decide on my proposals if option 5 do not win which would be:

1. Introduce placate shaman at at price of 200 nuggets
2. Yearly or quarterly resets

We are not discussing
1. Normal placate shaman at 18 nuggets. I am also opposed to that.
2. Lowering the cost of shaman. Although I was in support of this idea. That has been fully discussed.

Ok now discuss this without anything clouding your thoughts :laugh:

 

[DeletedUser]

To me, the real problem with keeping w1 classic is that it's not even for the players who've been there forever, for whom the game stopped evolving to an extent. It's more for new players who want to play with fewer premiums. It seems like it would have been more fair for the vets if a new world was opened which was classic from the start.

 

[1Big Chief]

Same topic as covered before.. and they will tell you.. if you want to change a small thing.. its all or nothing
Sorry.. that I can't agree with this... but I prefer world 1 they way it is
There are things I would like changed.. but if its to be at the cost of all or nothing.. I'll stick to nothing

 

[DeletedUser14006]

I stick with my original decision to keep world one 'classic' because it's unfair to non premium players, will only serve to make them feel excluded and will inevitably push them away.

 

[DeletedUser563]

Now I asked you to not bring inner game politics into this discussion. This is an earlier post of you. You wanted placate shaman. Just because ur opponent is now proposing a similar thing it must be voted against.

This is a follow up thread to my original posting about this issue.

At level 111 I am a pure duelist and after almost a year dueling I would like a change, maybe to fort fighter but am simply unable to without the option to placate shaman.

To do so now would cost $1.3m IG cash, this is absolutely crazy and would take in excess of 1-2 years to accrue.

This game is starting to feel dull and without the option to switch your skill set leaves little in the way of motivation to keep playing, in my opinion this is a serious flaw.

The last time this was mentioned here we had a vote and the result was an overwhelming no to bringing this option to world one.

Since then I see many more folk disappointed with not being able to switch up their build due to unreasonable cash requirements.

One reason folk wish to respec at a more reasonable cost is for all the new quests that have been introduced alongwith many other reasons.

I am wondering if we can have another vote here to see if opinion has changed please.

I have spoke with several folk who originally thought it was a bad idea and they now agree with all the updates this option is necessary to keep world one interesting.

vs

I stick with my original decision to keep world one 'classic'.

 

[DeletedUser14006]

I have carefully read what you wrote and I think I will stick to my original decision, keep world one 'classic'.

can you perhaps post a link to this so called earlier viewpoint. Just humor me.

Sure thing buddy, here you go:

I stick with my original decision to keep world one 'classic'.

Folk are allowed to change their opinion Jakkal's, it happens all the time, just like my opinion of you has, this is in no way clouding my thoughts on the issue brought forward on this thread, I have seen from other worlds now that world one needs to remain classic.

 

[DeletedUser]

I think placate shaman should be added, even though I'm not a normal premium user. World 1 is not a classic world, as all the updates are being added to it too So I don't see why they don't add it.

 

[DeletedUser16008]

I thought we had voted and cleared this up already & the vote came back Keep W1 classic .....no shaman

 

[DeletedUser1161]

This is not about placate shaman or lowering of the shaman just other compromises we may use to lessen the costs of sp's and aps. Other ways we can do this. Its just a free discussion. Contribute anyway you can. For example an expensive placate shaman would imo still keep the world classic but help those that have ridiculous tasks in front of them. Yearly , quarterly reset would accomplish the same.

I disagree. By introducing any changes that would lessen the costs of sp's or ap's would result in the world no longer being 'Classic'.
In world 1 there has always only been two ways to radically change your characters stats:
1 - Spend a long time and a lot of money to change your skills one by one; or
2 - Reset your character and start again.
For the sake of the players who have had to do these drastic steps in the long history of world 1 there should be no changes.

 

[DeletedUser]

W1 is all about planning if you don't have a long term plan you will always be stuck .
Just don't try to imply that everyone else is stuck like you.

Stop looking for shortcuts, w1 will remain classic whether you like it or not.

 

[DeletedUser]

lol, there's no conspiracy Jakkals. The only post about it in w1 as far as I've seen, is your own.

The main problem with your ideas is that while we were discussing the balance shaman idea, it was stated that any changes to a specific system would be highly unlikely. So it basically comes back to the choice between the enhanced premium system and the current one. Which again means that it's kind of hard staying "on-topic"

 

[DeletedUser563]

Ok John Colt at least can discuss this sensibly. Well I have seen now 2 posters derek1982 and jesse james that have posted several similar ideas or posts in support of such ideas to this forum. Now suddenly they are opposed to the idea. But I have referred that to support they can look into it.

Im putting everything into the front post so be warned. Most likely the person that said that was not really representing Innogames. Or is not working for Innogames anymore. Innogames changed a lot already. Although this forum is these days nothing more than a burial ground for ideas. Most of the ideas come from other forums and the developers themselves. I am not going to speculate why this is. But even in Beta that is supposed to be the closest to the developers I see no interaction from the developers. I am sad to say this but maybe they have lost faith in us with our constant haggling and childish attempts to ruin every idea. If a idea that everybody support in a way like dueling competitions hardly get 5 votes it should make you just wonder where is this forum or even beta forum going wrong? I think it is tanked constantly. For instance the lowering shaman vote was constantly attacked by rice farmer and -neo- neither who play in world1. What I am proposing therefore is a worldwide vote to establish whether the system the current system with massive SP and AP costs is supported by the majority. Thereafter if the world says the ap and sp needs to be changed they can sift through all the posts and come up with a strategy to change both. Im in the forum at this moment but am thinking of other strategies atm. To give you an idea the lowering shaman post was closed in the idea forum and the vote forum. I got both up again. That was not done in the forum. So dont lose faith in an individuals ability to get their message over. Just tell us what you think please without "the history" of similar ideas in the back of your head.

 

[DeletedUser]

I believe it was stated by Diggo, but after 20min of searching through the idea section I gave up finding the actual quote, so I might be mistaken. However there's no reason why I can't use my own logic to explain why implementing the enhanced system is preferred, compared to changing the shaman on a classic world;

The main difference between the classic and enhanced system is the placate shaman option, atleast if you are looking at it from a PvP perspective. So I'm guessing that those that want to keep w1 classic, is mainly opposed to the idea of an easy reskill. In other words, coming up with an idea to make reskilling easier on w1, would basically mean that we would play on the enhanced system but with 2h jobs. And I doubt there is a demand for that.

Changing a specific system would also mean more coding, and if the result is almost the same as something that is already available, then it would just mean you spent alot of time and resources on virtually nothing.

 

[DeletedUser563]

Yes but lets vote on it. You speak for John Colt I for Jakkals but we do not know how perhaps konacoffees or cat balou or any other player will vote on it. If placate shaman cost 200 nuggets. I buy 1000 nuggets each 2 months so that is 4 x 50 X 4 premium options = 800 nuggets spend. That is on one world. So each 2 months I will perhaps use the option once. That will still mean I will not have a easy reskill as for the rest of the time my ap and sp costs will increase. It just 2 bad opposites 1. Not being to change it and ridiculous ap and sp costs.
2. Being to change it daily at little costs and find

a workable compromise being to change it at most 2 months. Hell for all I care they can even put a counter in there to keep people from using it repeatedly. Im afraid that ppl are afraid now you will have 100 GG. But hell the GG is almost the easiest quest out there. And as always let me just repeat this a million times by the time I could chose there was almost no info we were not allowed to spoil quests(changed after some players pushed that to a boil) , there was no info on what the 3rd key was for. It would take me years to respec for that.

Older players got banned in trying to find info on that. they were not able to get it , they did not get it, they will never have it. So you want us to protect you from younger players getting the GG when you never ever say "hey this sucks and older player did that all basically for me atleast make it so that they can also get the GG."

As to what Diggo might or might not have said. Its like the RL trains station analogy that is used to death in computer design courses. Well basically there was a train station in England and the people that used it where of a small town. Most of them worked in London so they would have to get on the train at 8 and return at 5. All of them. Some of them only worked in the afternoons so they send a letter requesting that another train picked them up in the afternoon. So after a couple of months the train company decided to do something and send a train in the afternoon to the train station as a test. Of course there was nobody as the company did not notify the people of this test. They then wrote a letter that said to these people they send a train a in the afternoon and found there to be no interest in the service they propose. So what this means is that if we do noit support this idea or try and propose alternatives they cannot consider it . Right . So by the time they implement the placate shaman(scenario: revenue keep on dropping in this world so they will have to take drastic steps perhaps) there is atleast other voted options available. I dont want placate shaman in its current form either. But numbers have dropped to 5000 a year ago we had 13000 players. From about player 3300 you see about 1 or 2 with a town on the level 5's I think. So what Diggo said yesterday might not mean that gears are churning there we dont know of . A software company isnt just developers. There is financial considerations and like the developers have targets so would the accountants. I think the CFO carries in the end more weigh than even the project manager of the west itself. That just as background. So a change might be brewing already and our world might even be considered financially unfeasible in a couple of months. So it is all about what train you wanna hop at this stage.

 

[DeletedUser]

If you want your thread to stay on-topic you should stop posting unnecessary metaphors(no need to use one if you can express your point in the first place) and references to another game that as far as I can see isn't relevant to this thread.

I honestly don't see why a more expensive premium option would be better than implementing the enhanced premium system. Why would someone who is opposed to the enhanced system vote for something that will create an even bigger gap between those that can afford to spend alot nuggets and those that can afford a little now and then.

Numbers are dropping on all worlds, so it has nothing to do with this world being on the old system. (its actually the only non-recommended world that has had an increase of players since the last update)

 

[DeletedUser563]

Well your the one who said they had already decided against it. I was merely answering you. In short your idea needs to be up or they cant consider it. Players need to forget about how other topics went and concentrate their efforts on this one.

Well the gap between premium and non premium. Why are you worried about it. There is no gap .. too be honest thats baloney. Any players if really pressed can pull his cellphone out and buy enough nuggets to placate shaman even the 5 year old have cellphone accounts or get a cellphone budget or whatever. So invalid argument. Let them worry about getting it. they only need 200 nuggets no biggie. Then you can further and classify them in groups- non premiums that is loaded? I mean its 200 nuggets if they really and I mean really cant afford it there is still surveys if then still well their anyway not gonna play the game as we do so can wait or whatever. I dont have premium on all my worlds and some I have never used placate shaman. The difference is that is low key playersne i have gathering potatoes all day he is up to 400 by now. Each holiday set I hank them out and get the holiday set item for them. Premium or non premium is about players themselves let them worry about it. We need not carry the whole worlds burdens on our back.

The point about Innogames is just to show you that even they can change their minds. Im afraid in these forums we overthink things . So they said NO tomorrow it maybe yes.

 

[DeletedUser]

world 1 numbers have actually increased.

 

[Deleted User - 819397]

[box=red]Mod Insert: Please refrain from insults or off topic bickering. Any further insults will be given an infraction. Thank you. [/box]

 

[DeletedUser]

Well your the one who said they had already decided against it. I was merely answering you. In short your idea needs to be up or they cant consider it. Players need to forget about how other topics went and concentrate their efforts on this one.

The problem as I see it, is that we already had this discussion(twice) and both times the votes were against it. Your ideas might be slightly different but the goal is the same; a cheaper and faster way of reskilling. So completely disregarding previous topics is impossible since we are basically discussing the same issue.

Well the gap between premium and non premium. Why are you worried about it. There is no gap .. too be honest thats baloney. Any players if really pressed can pull his cellphone out and buy enough nuggets to placate shaman even the 5 year old have cellphone accounts or get a cellphone budget or whatever. So invalid argument. Let them worry about getting it. they only need 200 nuggets no biggie. Then you can further and classify them in groups- non premiums that is loaded? I mean its 200 nuggets if they really and I mean really cant afford it there is still surveys if then still well their anyway not gonna play the game as we do so can wait or whatever. I dont have premium on all my worlds and some I have never used placate shaman.

Ofcourse there is a difference between premium and non premium, why else would someone spend nuggets? But that wasn't my point. My question was; if I voted no to enhanced premium on w1, why would I vote yes to a system that is 4x more expensive and still has a 2h job system. I'd just end up in a position where I have to pay 4x as much to compete, compared to the other worlds. How does that make w1 better?

The difference is that is low key playersne i have gathering potatoes all day he is up to 400 by now. Each holiday set I hank them out and get the holiday set item for them. Premium or non premium is about players themselves let them worry about it. We need not carry the whole worlds burdens on our back.

Sorry, I really made an effort at deciphering this part, but I still don't understand what you mean.
- Low key players?
- Trading potatoes for holiday set items?
- It's about players themselves so I should let them worry about it?
- We need not carry the whole worlds burdens on our back? (not sure what that referrs to)

 

[DeletedUser563]

Ok you know what john colt i have given my full reasons in the first post. . I will ask Diggo to perhaps discuss a survey with Innogames . So if anyone out there likes the idea just reply . Im done with this thread.