Solutions to crafting

BetaBand

It's pretty obvious to most that Crafting is a great idea that has been poorly implemented. Which is a shame as it is a great idea. At the moment it takes ages to get the items you need and the buff benefits aren't that worth it and the sales price for them items in the market doesn't reflect the time taken. When you can get $500+ in an hour doing oil drilling at level 35, why would you gather, make and sell a tinderbox for less than $400?

Also, a lot of the items you craft don't seem to do anything. Sure some are used for other items but some i can't seem to find a use for at all. I may be wrong on these but i am a tonic peddler and can't see any use for

ink, distillate or lye for example.

These may come in future updates, but at the moment i barely see the point. Some of the buffs on other things are definitely useful to a degree, but not the degree that I could be bothered to make them, or willing to pay the sort of money a seller would want to justify the expense.

So, instead of another thread discussing the flaws I thought we could have one offering possible solutions. If a collection of them are placed in one easily skimmed through thread then perhaps something can be taken from the ideas and Crafting can be improved, which would be nice.





My first suggestion would be to simply make it so that you get 3 of each object you craft. 3 of an object makes it worth doing. it means you can use them yourself and sell some, making it of value to go through the hassle. It also means that the price they are sold for won't be so high as to put off purchases.

I believe that it would make the involvement in crafting increase. It would mean there were more items available, such as tinderboxes, at affordable prices, meaning people may buy those to do their own crafting. Overall the crafting element would get a boost, and would offer more fun to the game.

In addition, I feel Crafting points should be a random amount from 0 to 3 per craft. It is ridiculously and painfully slow at the moment, and I may be wrong, but this is meant to be fun. I have a real life where i do chores that are a pain, don't need that here too.

Ink: if this has no use can it not be used to half the cost of putting a bounty on someone's head?

Petroleum: if this has no use can't it be made into a molotov cocktail, and in a duel is thrown at the start doing additional damage of say 10 to 40HP?

Idol: ... use can't it be used to respec 1 x AP and 3 x SP for free. Or if that is too much, then 1 x SP even?

Moonshine: ... can't it be used to add 20 labour points (through drunken foolhardiness) but double the danger for doing a job and damage taken?

Distillate: ... can't it add 20 LP to construction of a town building?

Battery: ... can't it be used to add + 1 or 2 items from a crafting session?

Lye: i've no idea what this is so no comment :)

Herb Liqueur: ... health points remaining + 25%

Paper: perhaps combined with ink in fact to create a Wanted Poster which allows one free bounty


these are all tonic peddler as that is what I do, but you get the gist of the thread idea.

For me, the most important thing would be to increase the amount of items you get, because at the moment it is kind of pointless doing most of it and making the Crafting a less engaging and integral part of the game than it could/should be.
 

JoxerTM

Crafting = awsome ovewrall idea, bad execution

Why is that so?
1. Once you take a profession, you cannot switch to another. Which wouldn't be that bad if another thing wasn't a problem (continue to the next point)
2. Professions are not balanced. Only blacksmith is worth your time.
3. Recipes should have been added differently in the game. NPC trader was supposed to help newcommers, trying to make it "useable" in later game stages is an utter fail as now newcommers instead of equipment often get a recipe or two as NPC trader offer. And honestly I will never understand the decision to make two highest difficulty recipes droppable instead of ingame cash expensive (50K $ at least) or something that would affect the world in some way.
4. Unlike other games with crafting, games where you can craft items that are better than equipment in shops, in the west game crafted items are pretty much disappointing and almost useless.

Is there a good solution to this "mess"? Yes. Rewriting the whole thing from scratch. And for that we need a new game version, not just another update. Instead of 4 professions, crafting would have been better if for each difficulty you could learn one or two recipes of available several of them - a few for which you can get products on jobs you're able to do. That way we'd avoid making a certain class, or profession, overpowered. And instead of hardcoded disbalance it would rely on your skill and game knowledge. Etc etc, this is not Ideas section nor Brainfarts thread so... I'll stop here.
 
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Elmyr

2. Professions are not balanced. Only blacksmith is worth your time.
That's not true at all. Tonic peddler is much more useful at 1 skill or liquorice wouldn't have been selling for $3k. Field cooks killer app doesn't come until 450 skill and gentleman's dinner, but their skill buffs are still in demand. Balanced does not mean every profession is equally good at all skill levels. You say only blacksmith is worth your time, but blacksmith is the least useful profession to level past 101.

The only people for whom blacksmith is the only profession worth your time are fort fighters.
 

JoxerTM

Sorry Elmyr but I disagree and still say only blacksmith is worthy, the rest three professions are being near uttery useless.
Maybe you should start a poll to see some feedback from players who had high expectations like me about all that stuff?

While we're at it, I know that liquorice's price is high, but honestly I'll never understand why since key#3 droprate is high now and you definetly won't use that product if on gold colt quest. Perhaps ppl didn't read about that. Gentleman's dinner? You mean +20 health for nonsoldiers after all the time you've wasted to learn that recipe? Baaah.

Don't get me wrong, it's not that I'm saying blacksmith rocks and is spectacular profession. For example +3 def product, who needs that crap. But it still has boosts for damage in forts and duels which makes it the best choice for all levels.
 
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DeletedUser15302

Well the one which can make cigarettes is most definitely useful and I know that's not the blacksmith. but I do think the system needs a little overhaul. either as the first guy said you make it so you can get more items per craft or you simply up the drop chance of said resources in the job by 20% for the craft. So by taking blacksmith you automatically increase the drop rate of say granite blocks and hammers and cotton by 20%.

Another way would be to have a materials market or some kind of invest-able or even better build capable in town resource collection agency. The idea being you spend enough money and your town automatically collects resources needed for a certain job and you can then craft that item essentially its like an Npc who goes out there and does the job for you and gets better at it depending on how much you invest or build into the project.

Would add more to the town, more things to build and yes would make it more fun IMO. One thing I have always loved about the West is they continue to add in cool things all the time and actually seem to listen to the players ideas now and then. So hey lets make the crafting a little more user friendly whaddya say?
 

Elmyr

Gentleman's dinner? You mean +20 health for nonsoldiers after all the time you've wasted to learn that recipe? Baaah.
Again, you're assuming everyone's sole motivation on every world is fort battles. +50 LP (+60 LP with the attributes) is extemely...EXTREMELY significant for anyone interested in doing all jobs, all quests, or has any pure build for a luck job and wants to maximize drops. Just because I don't care about dueling doesn't make Geronimo's pepperbox useless.

And I've used about 400 cigarettes on one world. I haven't used that many bayonets anywhere, and cigarettes are a whole lot easier to make.
 

JoxerTM

Wait... Why would I who was alljobs player ignore +50 LP as extremely significant and why would I say that it's near utterly useless. Maybe I'm not seeing a real benefit from +50 LP in the game, dunno. Maybe the reason is that shaman is too cheap? Something is wrong here, and we need an arbiter.

I haven't used cigarettes nor bayonets. In the game I mean. Which reminds me that I need to get some smokes, can't drink coffee without them. :)
 

BetaBand

Any chance Joxer and Elmyr can get a room rather than hi-jacking the point of this thread, which was for ideas to be put down so they can be read easily.

In fact, I will create one for you. hang on.

Nice ideas by Roberto.



Ok boys, you have your own thread with your posts in it. So can you take it over there and perhaps delete the posts which don't offer up solutions. I appreciate I am not a mod but i wouldn't mind hearing more good ideas to improve crafting, rather than debates on it or complaints on it, so perhaps the thread will hold value for the devs and things will get better.

Ta.
 
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JoxerTM

There was no hijacking. With those posts up there, I've practically told you that I completely disagree with your definition of the problem, disagree with your "solutions" (which can actually ruin the game even more) and if it comes to vote, I'll say no to your idea.
Which, btw, should have been posted in Ideas section, not to the place of discussion - Saloon. :)
 

BetaBand

Not your first post, after Elmyr got in. Anyway, i'm doing it now :) And i didn't post it there as they aren't fully formulated ideas, just thoughts.
 

Fafer

Wait... Why would I who was alljobs player ignore +50 LP as extremely significant and why would I say that it's near utterly useless. Maybe I'm not seeing a real benefit from +50 LP in the game, dunno. Maybe the reason is that shaman is too cheap? Something is wrong here, and we need an arbiter.

I haven't used cigarettes nor bayonets. In the game I mean. Which reminds me that I need to get some smokes, can't drink coffee without them. :)
Goal is to create all-jobs build with gents dinner and use remaining SPs to make decent fort fighter or dueller. It can be done since all jobs build include lots of charisma and dexterity and usually hiding and stamina/vigor.

Shaman is too cheap? Yes, if you buy nuggets. Or if you started on newer world then you know skillpath exactly and reskilling is minimized. But players on older worlds will benefit a lot from g.dinner.
 

JoxerTM

Goal is to create all-jobs build with gents dinner and use remaining SPs to make decent fort fighter or dueller. It can be done since all jobs build include lots of charisma and dexterity and usually hiding and stamina/vigor.
Alljobs build is...
1. obsolete since you can buy products on the market
2. irrelevant as there are no quests (worth bothering with) that cover all jobs possible
3. probably soon worthless as it's planned by devs to rebalance skills on jobs and items
Instead of that one should make an (XP/AP/SP) allquests build. Means, skip timewasting worthless quests. Now that build would have lots of CHA and DEX, but also a bit of MOB and STR, don't you agree? And that dinner wouldn't help it much. Y'know what would help it? A crafted +6 charisma product useable only by nonsoldiers. Is there such thing out there? Nah. Instead of one, devs made an indian belt in form of a useable product.

Shaman is too cheap? Yes, if you buy nuggets. Or if you started on newer world then you know skillpath exactly and reskilling is minimized. But players on older worlds will benefit a lot from g.dinner.
Shaman is rediculously cheap. Players on old worlds... You mean dead worlds? Look, players on dead worlds need an end game and not some cheesy game addons.
 
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Fafer

Alljobs build is...
cut cut
yes, but i bet there will be other high LP jobs included in new quests.

Shaman is rediculously cheap. Players on old worlds... You mean dead worlds? Look, players on dead worlds need an end game and not some cheesy game addons.
no, we need world merge. worlds 2-9 (all having around 2000 players) should be merged into one world.
 

JoxerTM

yes, but i bet there will be other high LP jobs included in new quests.
It's possible, however those will probably be quests for levels 75+. In a way we need two builds - allquests build for level 75 (which allows you getting gg for it's LP set bonus) and then another for quests over level 75. There should also exist a third build and that's soldier allquests on level 75 as they already have +24 LP in some charisma related jobs needed for quests unlike other inferior classes.

no, we need world merge. worlds 2-9 (all having around 2000 players) should be merged into one world.
You can't merge worlds if one player plays on more than one of those. Instead of merging, an endgame with rewards. Nuggets, bonus SP/AP, bonus items... Whatever. Just a reward that you'll bring on the next world you play. And it's easy to make it work as there is a bonus code option. ;)
 

DeletedUser563

The reason why crafting is such baloney is that when it came out. mOst of the feedback on beta was ignored. here and there they made a lazy change(change number of items etc) the only way to improve it was obvious
1. create more usables there is such obvious items that could be usables. For instance I suggested the golden pillow for saddle master/master saddler just sound so stupid. Where you could equip this your sleep would be reduced to say 20 minutes.
2.There is the obvious bug where you reach 230 or something and only have green recipes. Largely ignored. ridiculed by other players when i brought this up.
3.Ridiculous requirements the final saddle master required uncut ruby + uncut daimond for what 10 times + 100% speed. I said makes this atleast times 50 and lift the advantages for the earlier travel buffs.
4. Let players choose more than one craft and be able to switch crafts. Why this needed to be permanent I dont understand. Flexible systems improve longevity of any program.
5. Actually consider players ideas. If players worked out possible buff we wouldnt have largely neglected crafts.
 

alectheba

I reached lvl 100 in crafting ... only the new recipes (lvl 100 recipes) give me a crafting point ... everything i could craft before is grey - no chance of a crafting point. What happened to the 'low chance' ??? Low chance is better than no chance.