DeletedUser
I think that making religion illegal would probably get more people going to church than any of the current methods of recruitment. There just seems to be something intriguing about clandestine meetings and hidden "knowledge".
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DeletedUser
Huh, interesting, it seems you have no idea whaat you're talking about, most of those things were rumors started by apostates. And for the few that weren't, i never said we were perfect, we have a further grasp of the Bible than before, and it continues to grow.
Do you ever think of the false proofs of evolution, just one was in the 70's where you guys had the bones of the missing link, such was spoken of as fact for more than a decade, and it was proven that they were orangutan bones. So don't start with your fake evidences of the fallacy of my belief. You have no grasp of what you're talking about, but go on speaking of it as if you do. If you actually want to know about Jehovah's Witnesses, ask me or another Jehovah's Witness. Rather than the internet.
That would be like me reading something on the internet about you that was written by someone who has never met and me drawing a conclusion about you by it. It's wrong, and you know it.
And if possible, try and not to lose your short temper and resort to name calling, if you can.
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DeletedUser
Ahhh so we are the name callers huh Blondie? How bout this little piece of advice straight from you, only a few posts ago:
Blondie14 said:
Who was the first one to insult eachother here Blondie? Who was the first one to get riled up about this? I think it's a certain somebody who's name begins with the letter B.
Blondie, I'll respect your beliefs. Till you start acting like our good friend lord3angle and start acting like your religion makes you better then everybody else. So please, take this little piece of advice and remember it whenever you try to shove religion down everybodys throat.
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DeletedUser
Very wise advice, but i do not simply turn around and bend over when i am insulted bashed for what i believe.
I have a bit of a short temper, but i have not stooped down to the point where i start calling someone names as if we were still in kindergarden. I don't see why someone will insult someone else and be suprised when the person defends themself.
Have fun and live well.
I have a bit of a short temper, but i have not stooped down to the point where i start calling someone names as if we were still in kindergarden. I don't see why someone will insult someone else and be suprised when the person defends themself.
Have fun and live well.
DeletedUser8950
Look into it before claiming apostate's made them, and define apostate anyway.
I have plenty grasp of what I'm speaking about, though I'm not willing to discuss it here. Ministry, 144,000, disfellowship, sound familar?
The point I was making is just like before you're prophecying something, and you have a veeerrry bad track record, specially for a religion that calls others "false prophets."
Even if most those were faked, it still proves you've already failed many prophecies and are still doing so.
Evolution has been proven is the problem with that, however even if it had been disproven by one mistake, it isn't a belief system like religion, I don't live by the principles and belief system of evolution, I just accept it, like most rational people do.
But all you want to do is, stomp, shout and not reply when you can't get your way. You might enjoy the "ignoranc is bliss" thread a little bit more
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DeletedUser
Banning religion probably wont work. :/ It sounds nice, but it simply wont have any real effect. HOWEVER, we can tax the income of churches, which would be a very nice step in the right direction.
Btw, there is not "anti evolution proof" especially if you're referring to micro evolution.(Denying micro evolution makes you sound very silly.)
Btw, there is not "anti evolution proof" especially if you're referring to micro evolution.(Denying micro evolution makes you sound very silly.)
DeletedUser
(( once again, debate the topic at hand. Let's try not to derail discussions by name-calling, thanks ))
DeletedUser8950
Taxing religion would be great.
A step in the right direction.
DeletedUser
DeletedUser
Yet another thing that has worked before, but not the way you want it.
When the Arabs conquered pretty much all of the Middle-east in quick succession, they were determined to break anything that might have cause tensions between them and the newly occupied people. So they taxed everyone who's religion was different from their's, and all Muslims were relived from this tax. The tax caused most of the indigenous people to change their religion.
DeletedUser
Look into it before claiming apostate's made them, and define apostate anyway.
I have plenty grasp of what I'm speaking about, though I'm not willing to discuss it here. Ministry, 144,000, disfellowship, sound familar?
The point I was making is just like before you're prophecying something, and you have a veeerrry bad track record, specially for a religion that calls others "false prophets."
Even if most those were faked, it still proves you've already failed many prophecies and are still doing so.
Evolution has been proven is the problem with that, however even if it had been disproven by one mistake, it isn't a belief system like religion, I don't live by the principles and belief system of evolution, I just accept it, like most rational people do.
But all you want to do is, stomp, shout and not reply when you can't get your way. You might enjoy the "ignoranc is bliss" thread a little bit more
There is a scriptures that says the light will get brighter, we have always been right about Bible truths, but not exactly when it would take place.
If i recall, we preached for years about how around fall of 1914 global anarchy would take place, what happend then? WW1
We also knew that the scarlett beast in Revelation symbolized the Leage of Nations which became the united nations after it fell apart for a little while.
After the fall of the League of Nations, we said that it would rise again. And it did, as the United Nations.
So on and so on.
Not to mention, we're far ahead other religions if you consider none of them know God's name, and that Jesus is his son, and soon the Earth will be a paradise. A good message, yet some are still apathetic, so sad.
DeletedUser1121
We will just have to wait and see when JHWH sends paradise down don't we.
My guess is that it wouldn't happen in the near future. But we are drifting off topic again.
Do religions need to be illegal? No.
Making thing illegal has never solved any problems.
Just a small example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States
If you make things illegal, people will go out of their way to get what they want.
Often with worse resultst than when it wouldn't be illegal
My guess is that it wouldn't happen in the near future. But we are drifting off topic again.
Do religions need to be illegal? No.
Making thing illegal has never solved any problems.
Just a small example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States
If you make things illegal, people will go out of their way to get what they want.
Often with worse resultst than when it wouldn't be illegal
DeletedUser8950
Ah, but Alcohol and Religion are entirely different. Probation was a complete failure, obviously.
Bans and taxes on religion so far has not been.
Bans and taxes on religion so far has not been.
DeletedUser1121
well, i would like to see some examples then.
Where was religion succesfully banned because it was made illegal?
Where was religion succesfully banned because it was made illegal?
DeletedUser8950
Look at eliel's post.
Estonia had it banned, and now it isn't a religous country tbh.
DeletedUser1121
so you say that there isn't a person in Estonia who is religious?
Find that hard to believe...
edit:
Just found the post. it said it has the least religious people
So you still havent succesfully banned religion.
And the ones who remain often are more fanatical
Find that hard to believe...
edit:
Just found the post. it said it has the least religious people
So you still havent succesfully banned religion.
And the ones who remain often are more fanatical
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DeletedUser8950
Nope, but their minds are much less poisoned then before.
A ban on anything is never 100% effective, it's about whether it is benefical or not.
DeletedUser1121
Well, you can argue the fact that there minds weren't poisened..
I found some info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Soviet_Union
Marxism and stuff like that isn't that good for the free mind either.
I found some info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Soviet_Union
Marxism and stuff like that isn't that good for the free mind either.
DeletedUser8950
True, I wasn't supporting the Soviet Union. What I was saying is that it shows it could be done effectively.
Religion has pretty much been proven to be a pack of lies, yet more and more people join, out of fear of death, or the fact they have been mislead. These people have the right to make their own decisions, but religion often misleads people into making choices which don't look at all the facts.
DeletedUser
Well, I don't know how good this contribution is, but here goes.
It is always important to remember that religion is good and it can be evil. It is good in that some people on a day where they feel incredibly angry say to themselves, "Maybe I should take out an AK and take out a Walmart!" Then they think, "Wait what if when I get killed in the shootout with the cops I am punished very harshly after death" Thus the incredibly angry person hopefully won't take out the Walmart. This is an extreme example but religion to a point holds some people back from such base desires. This is not to say atheists are immoral monsters, many I hope understand the value of being a good person and how people remember you. In cases like the Catholic Church there is an excellent structure which encourages humanitarian giving, and the proper spread of philanthropic items. Now one could here invoke corruption and poor apropriations of monies in the church, misusing money for projects like massive cathedrals for example, however much has been done to combat such things. Religions can also support a variety of positive things which I will not name here as there are numerous example, also because I'm being lazy and I wouldn't like to have to defend too many points.
On the other hand religion can be used as a tool for death and mayhem, and general evil. Terrorist groups like Al-Quaida have what is called an extremist Muslim ideology. What they create in fact is a twisted form of Islam that they use as a TOOL for their own means. Concepts such as paradise for killing yourself in the name of Allah are not in the Quran. In fact it discourages this. However in places where madrassas are the only form of education in illiterate areas a teacher who has extremist sympathies has no trouble inserting concepts into the minds of those he teaches. Madrassas however are not always that corrupting, they are roughly equivalent to any sort of other eligious school and it is the teachers teachings and ideas which influence students, not the school itself. In the past there have been cases like the crusades, here religion was used often by the crusaders, and also by there muslim counterparts as a tool. For the crusaders they used religion as a cover to conquer, control, and pillage newlands and wealth. For Muslims it was an opportunity to eliminate anyone who wasn't islamic in the region. Religion is always wrong if it is used as a tool to defend something or an action, that is usually the case. Religion also does cause conflicts between people. These people believe that there can be only one religion theirs. As of yet there is no remedy other than understanding others can hold different beliefs from you. Edit-I on the Vatican scandal that is a case where power corrupts and people abusing the powers they have.
Now moving on to fight other points and facts dredged up in this discussion. When you pause to look back on assorted Arab reconquests in Mideival times you'll notice that they were often just as willing to let other religious populations survive. The crusades were not fought because you couldn't go to Jerusalem (a christian) it was rather that a Chrisitian nation was not the one in control of the city. The Ottoman Turks even were quite good to their other religious populations, when World War One came it was Arabs in that part of the empire that rebelled not Jews and Christians from the north. Of course there are the Armenians which were slaughtered as scapegoats, this was in the name of the state though and because the government seeked a scapegoat, however I offer no other defense or reason to genocide. It should be noted that in cases like the Ex-Soviet countries, because the church was a forbidden institution people are flocking to it and getting baptised and proudly saying they're Russian orthodox or whatever religion they joined. Thus though the Current religious populations look low their is the question of when the last survey was taken of the country in question. The biggest impact in my mind communism had is that no one will tackle you if you stuff a pellet gun down someone's throat and shoot them, people will mind their own business rather than intervene.
So that was my long ramble, I realize I didn't cite sources however with a little research one should be able to find evidence backing my statements. I also realize that I wandered off track somtimes so I'm sorry for that. My statement in question is that religion shouldn't be banned. Banning it gives the state the excuse to ban other freedoms too. Every man, woman, child, or any one in between has the right to think the way they want too, if they believe there is a god or gods or no god let them think that way and allow them to find their own answers a government should not dictate their beliefs. In conclusion I will say what I said before, religion when used as a tool can be dangerous, religion that can reinforce your morals is good.
(I'm sorry if I made a noobish argument, this is one of the few times so far I've written a reasoning behind a complex concept this long.)
It is always important to remember that religion is good and it can be evil. It is good in that some people on a day where they feel incredibly angry say to themselves, "Maybe I should take out an AK and take out a Walmart!" Then they think, "Wait what if when I get killed in the shootout with the cops I am punished very harshly after death" Thus the incredibly angry person hopefully won't take out the Walmart. This is an extreme example but religion to a point holds some people back from such base desires. This is not to say atheists are immoral monsters, many I hope understand the value of being a good person and how people remember you. In cases like the Catholic Church there is an excellent structure which encourages humanitarian giving, and the proper spread of philanthropic items. Now one could here invoke corruption and poor apropriations of monies in the church, misusing money for projects like massive cathedrals for example, however much has been done to combat such things. Religions can also support a variety of positive things which I will not name here as there are numerous example, also because I'm being lazy and I wouldn't like to have to defend too many points.
On the other hand religion can be used as a tool for death and mayhem, and general evil. Terrorist groups like Al-Quaida have what is called an extremist Muslim ideology. What they create in fact is a twisted form of Islam that they use as a TOOL for their own means. Concepts such as paradise for killing yourself in the name of Allah are not in the Quran. In fact it discourages this. However in places where madrassas are the only form of education in illiterate areas a teacher who has extremist sympathies has no trouble inserting concepts into the minds of those he teaches. Madrassas however are not always that corrupting, they are roughly equivalent to any sort of other eligious school and it is the teachers teachings and ideas which influence students, not the school itself. In the past there have been cases like the crusades, here religion was used often by the crusaders, and also by there muslim counterparts as a tool. For the crusaders they used religion as a cover to conquer, control, and pillage newlands and wealth. For Muslims it was an opportunity to eliminate anyone who wasn't islamic in the region. Religion is always wrong if it is used as a tool to defend something or an action, that is usually the case. Religion also does cause conflicts between people. These people believe that there can be only one religion theirs. As of yet there is no remedy other than understanding others can hold different beliefs from you. Edit-I on the Vatican scandal that is a case where power corrupts and people abusing the powers they have.
Now moving on to fight other points and facts dredged up in this discussion. When you pause to look back on assorted Arab reconquests in Mideival times you'll notice that they were often just as willing to let other religious populations survive. The crusades were not fought because you couldn't go to Jerusalem (a christian) it was rather that a Chrisitian nation was not the one in control of the city. The Ottoman Turks even were quite good to their other religious populations, when World War One came it was Arabs in that part of the empire that rebelled not Jews and Christians from the north. Of course there are the Armenians which were slaughtered as scapegoats, this was in the name of the state though and because the government seeked a scapegoat, however I offer no other defense or reason to genocide. It should be noted that in cases like the Ex-Soviet countries, because the church was a forbidden institution people are flocking to it and getting baptised and proudly saying they're Russian orthodox or whatever religion they joined. Thus though the Current religious populations look low their is the question of when the last survey was taken of the country in question. The biggest impact in my mind communism had is that no one will tackle you if you stuff a pellet gun down someone's throat and shoot them, people will mind their own business rather than intervene.
So that was my long ramble, I realize I didn't cite sources however with a little research one should be able to find evidence backing my statements. I also realize that I wandered off track somtimes so I'm sorry for that. My statement in question is that religion shouldn't be banned. Banning it gives the state the excuse to ban other freedoms too. Every man, woman, child, or any one in between has the right to think the way they want too, if they believe there is a god or gods or no god let them think that way and allow them to find their own answers a government should not dictate their beliefs. In conclusion I will say what I said before, religion when used as a tool can be dangerous, religion that can reinforce your morals is good.
(I'm sorry if I made a noobish argument, this is one of the few times so far I've written a reasoning behind a complex concept this long.)
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