P&P Shooting up the saloons: Vineyard vs. the IJ's

DeletedUser

Yes, there is that part of the scene that is missing, because it is a bump I experienced with them many months ago. Betsy's understanding of a NAP (which is the standard definition) differed from their understanding (which I had been exposed to months ago in a previous discussion), so when I took over the discussion, I entered into it with the intent of ensuring the NAP included not attacking owned forts.

See, basically, many months ago one of the founders and I discussed a NAP. However, that discussion broke down when they indicated a different interpretation of a NAP, which is to dis-include attacking town-owned forts. In this NAP discussion, Betsy did not know they had a distorted definition of NAP. When I took over this discussion, I was aware of their atypical definition, and attempted to ensure the standard definition would be honored. They indicated it would not, I indicated no deal.

As far as dueling is concerned, that town is inconsequential. Fort wars are a different matter, and even though they barely participate, what little participation they do present can nonetheless help to fill the ranks of the opposing forces and therefore we have a vested interest in decreasing the amount of towns opposing us in fort wars. Simple as that.

In fact, the NAP presented here is no different than the NAP presented in the past, well other than D.Saint being tossed in for craps & giggles. ;)


Oh, and one more thing I wanted to point out about this drama-filled event: By all that is presented, BilleA (VE founder) was ready and willing to agree to D.Saint's (grunt's) expulsion in exchange for a NAP. If he had been trying to pull one over on us, he would not have backed off when the specifics of the NAP were clarified. The "laugh on us" doesn't quite work that well if you back off, now does it? Given this, it is logical to deduce that BilleA had full intention of accepting an atypically defined NAP in exchange for D.Saint's expulsion. But, as I indicated earlier, I will leave D.Saint to save face as best he can. ta ta
 
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DeletedUser

A NAP is not attacking the town, but if you attacked a Fort that VE are apart of, it you would be braking the NAP. So in a way they would be keeping to it and you would be breaking it!
Incorrect. They own no forts, while we own a handful. Therefore, we could not attack a fort they own for the mere fact they owned no forts.

So really all they had to do is get joined up to every fort that you dont have and you could not attack anything! Cus a NAP works both way! You could not attack them too!
And here is your mistake in understanding all this. "Owned" forts, not occupied forts. Just because they occupy a fort does not protect the fort from our attacking it.

As to whether it was a good or bad deal, that is the interpretation presented by one founder, and not by the residents as a whole. If all the residents are happy about being dueled, their cash taken, their energy depleted, and being passed out every two days, then they are a very rare minority. Non-existent as well as I know, which means BilleA was just blustering in the hopes of getting the deal to be more beneficial to them, and virtually useless to us.

As it is, their town is just 5 minutes away, with plenty of residents, almost all of which can't fight worth crap, but have lots of cash in their pockets. For us to agree to a NAP denies some easy benefits to our town. For them to agree to a NAP means their residents get to collect more cash, have more energy, and play with a lot less interruptions.

Look, they haven't even finished building their town! We finished both of our towns months ago, and all three towns started at the same time! You don't think we're having a negative impact on their overall productivity, their growth, their advancement? We have been crippling them for months. We're their nightmare!

So, when Betsy approached them with an offer for a NAP, she was doing them a favor... she was being nice (one of her failings, I must admit). Problem is, I'm not so nice and made sure VE didn't get something for nothing.

Okay, hopefully you're caught up now and we don't have to pull out any more soap opera reruns.
 
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DeletedUser

Face it Vineyard is no longer a threat. In our war I have been attacked once.
 

DeletedUser

Just shot over and Ko'ed two more. Running low on energy so niiped of to the hotel.
 

DeletedUser

Donkey, I'll assume that you are most likely younger than 25, probably still of school going age. I'll also assume that you have never had to do big negotiations like broker a deal between companies or settle on the terms of a divorce. Or even read a good spy novel for that matter.
How is this relevant? Because not all deals are brokered with the initial statement as the true intention of the deal.
So if it was so nice of you to do them a favor, why in the first place did you have to try and get a NAP for you not to get attacked! It does not make sense that it was all for VE, cus it was not so give it up!!! I belive that your first damand was for D.Saint to be kicked out! It was you that went to VE not the other way around!

So you all should just stop making yourself look all big!! Cus you had to try and get D.Saint off your back, and that was the only reason for you going to VE with the NAP! I like reading the forums here, so please stop your crap! We have all read what you put up that was said, and you went begging to them not the other way around!
Sure, getting a dueler out of our town, or increase the difficulty (via distance) of that dueler, would be good. But taking 2 or 3 losses per day from a town while gaining 20+ wins against that town is hardly a bad position to be in.
So you use D.Saint's dueling of IJ as "bait". By making the other side believe that they have some leverage, you drop their guard. Then offering them the further incentive of stopping the attacks on them, you sweeten the deal for them.

P.S And one more thing!! As I had said above as The forts that VE are a part of, are from are MC, that means that you attack anything that is MC and you are attacking VE. Just like if someone attacked Canada, you are attacking UK, Aus, New zealand, and anyother counties we have.
And here you provide the answer that you cannot seem to figure out on your own. Lets use your example of Canada and it's "alliance" with UK, Aus and NZ.
What would happen if lets say UK and Aus and NZ starts a fight with (lets just take) Greenland and Canada refused to join the fight because they have an arrangement with Greenland? You can bet your ass that Canada will be moved out of the alliance. Which ultimately will weaken the alliance.

Now back to the game. Vineyard MC now stops joining fights against IJ, which seems to be the arch enemy of all that is MC, forts. Just how long do you think it will take for MC to turn on Vineyard or simply move them out of the alliance?
Vineyard may not be one of the major powerhouse MC towns, but they still hold a fair number of high level players that could be useful in a fort fight. Removing those from the opposition means they have to be replaced by other players, some that may be less of a challenge in a fort fight.

This is of course just one hypothetical about the deal that was proposed. I was not part of the discussions, so I cannot say for sure.

But do not for a single second think that this was all just to get rid of one dueler against our town.
Or, wait, keep on believing that. It is much easier to manipulate the naive and the uninformed.

You have a nice day now.
Fear the D.Saint!
 

DeletedUser

Hmm, too bad you keep deleting your posts there Donkey. I was hoping for a laugh. Ah well, I'll toss out some stats in a different thread soon enough, so you can get a better idea of what's been going on ingame, and maybe you can understand we have the leverage of action and success.
 

DeletedUser

You haven't been here for a while D.Saint. Do you see your fighting a lost cause :)
 

DeletedUser

You haven't been here for a while D.Saint. Do you see your fighting a lost cause
A lost cause, you say? :)

During this month, the Vineyard has received some great re-reinforcement in the form of Mr. Bubbles, Hooooa, Barry7 and now William Webb Ellis. Since then, most of IJ's higher-level players are confined to bed or in knock-out.

IJ'ers like Phyraliar and the The Ace of Spades has seen the writing on the wall and left for less dangerous areas, while Vineyard's number of members has been increasing.
Erus
, now back from what must have been an extended shopping trip, hasn't been seen out in the open for some time, even though I usually manage to catch and tear him up about once a day. Yesterday he even decided to camp (?!) in Vineyard, not daring to take the five-minute ride to his own hotel as I was there and about to duel him.
Sluffo
and George Hurst are on what can only be described as a 48-hour schedule.
Simply put, at the "top of the saloons", we are having our way with you.

So if you think you are winning this hands down, think again. The IJ's might be good low-level dueling towns, but when it comes to higher-level dueling, you are left wanting indeed.

My current stats vs. the IJ's:

January 28th
DUELS, won/lost: 179 / 37
KO's, inflicted/suffered: 30 / 1
XP, gained/given away: 18806 / 5434
MONEY, taken/lost: $5395 / $248

And I have still not been knocked-out since November 27th.
 
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DeletedUser15169

Wow! I was suprised by the ammount of hot resonse this thread has generated. If a town is not affecting you, then why not prove it in game rather than make alot of hotty posts about it?!?!
 

DeletedUser

Wow! I was suprised by the ammount of hot resonse this thread has generated. If a town is not affecting you, then why not prove it in game rather than make alot of hotty posts about it?!?!

Because its P&P and this is what makes the west fun. Also I want to show that IJ is far stronger than D.Saint thought.
 

DeletedUser

Because its P&P and this is what makes the west fun. Also I want to show that IJ is far stronger than D.Saint thought.
Hehe, that was unexpected. The warlike IJ's with all their "illustrious duelers" and thousands of victorious fights, needing to prove themselves to me?!

I would like to turn that statement. It is little Vineyard that has shown itself to be capable of much more than many IJ'ers had ever expected... ;)
 
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DeletedUser

Capable? Capable of giving me exp maybe. I said nothing out proving ourselves ethier I said we are stronger than YOU D.Saint thought we would be.
 

DeletedUser

Capable? Capable of giving me exp maybe. I said nothing out proving ourselves ethier I said we are stronger than YOU D.Saint thought we would be.

Did you have fun in our town yesterday! It really shows how capable you are hitting people that are lower then you and cant defend themselves. Is that what you call capable!

I would love to see a fight between you and D.Saint, but D.Saint is higher then you! shame really!

Did you attack ortender in our town? If not why not, is that cus he is a higher level then you and you may not win?

Hmm, too bad you keep deleting your posts there Donkey. I was hoping for a laugh. Ah well, I'll toss out some stats in a different thread soon enough, so you can get a better idea of what's been going on ingame, and maybe you can understand we have the leverage of action and success.

Ya i saw the error of my ways! You guys are never going to say that you cant control this and that you were wanting something out of that deal.!

Cus if you did do that you would look weak and other people would pick up the fight against your towns! Which would not be good for you guys!

Its like upanator came and attacked everyone in our town that was LOWER then him, that says alot about him, if you guys were better then everyone, why do you attack only people that you know you can beat? When you do those stats remember to put the level of the person that you beat!

Don't get me wrong Hellstromm, I am not looking for a fight cus I am not up to it as I am a worker not a fighter, I just think it shows alot about alot of people that they attack workers! We all are just wanting to have fun playing the game, but this just makes people mad!
 
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DeletedUser

lol, this is a game, get over yourself.

Thank you Hellstromm you have just made my point. When something is not going your way you are not interested. I deleted my posts, cus i saw that there was no point. You bring it back up, so I reply to you and then you tell me to get over it! Wow You made my point very well!
 
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DeletedUser

If it's any consolation Donkey, I can beat people that are a much higher level than myself.
 
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