Scottish Independance

Discussion in 'Debate and discussion' started by Zemelci, Jan 15, 2014.

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  1. Zemelci

    Zemelci Well-Known Member

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    So this debate won't mean much to you Americans but shortly (as in during the next few years) Scotland is going to make a vote as to whether it wants to stay in the United Kingdom. As such this has raised several issues. Firstly: Why does only Scotland get a vote, shouldn't England get a vote on if we want to keep them?
    Secondly: Why doesn't Wales also get a vote?
    Thirdly: Queen Elizabeth 2nd is technically the queen of both England and Scotland through history.

    So I'm putting these questions to you plus one more:
    If you were voting for Scotland what would you vote and why?

    And if you're American, what's your view on this? It would be nice to see some ideas from across the pond (You may want to look up a bit on it and check out some of the terms first.)
     
  2. braetwalda

    braetwalda Well-Known Member

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    Personally I believe despite what what the SNP say that if Scotland was to become independant that they would be in for a rather nasty shock. I also believe that if they do decide to go independant that all of our military equipment and infrastructure currently up there (Typhoons, Trident submarines etc) should be either transferred down here or paid for in other words no free gizzits.
    As to why only Scotland gets a vote and not the rest of the UK well thats basicly because the result only really concerns the Scottish people not to mention the fact that it could be construed as being unfair if the entire of the UK vote on the issue.
    Oh and Queen Elizabeth II is the Queen for far more countries than just England and Scotland.
     
  3. Zemelci

    Zemelci Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but she has inherited the right (not conquered) to govern Scotland which is one of the important things in this issue. Also, I'm saying that we get a separate vote to Scotland on if we want to keep them or not.
     
  4. tigermite

    tigermite Guest

    Firstly: Scotland has a right to decide on its' own independence, the rest of the UK has no right to intervene, as for a separate vote for England (although it should be the rest of the UK, not just England) I can't really see the point.
    Secondly: Exactly, same goes for Northern Ireland, Cornwall and all the other U.K territories that want independence.
    Thirdly: So?

    What would I do if I had a vote? Well seeing as I'm not Scottish I don't have any special preference either way, in the end it's their choice and theirs alone.
     
  5. Victor Kruger

    Victor Kruger Well-Known Member

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    1 it is the Scottish who have the choice as its their future to be decided on not the rest of the UK ie england

    2 Wales isnt Scotland either see above. Wales hasnt asked for independence and couldnt support herself if she wanted, not even close

    3 Yes she is but also queen of the rest of the commonwealth and Australia and Canada etc

    Im not Scottish, im English but if England had the vote to leave the UK id vote to leave it but that would be knowing England would be far far better off financially without the rest. If I were Scottish on the same basis id have to say they wont be better off. It wont even be full independence as they want to keep the queen keep the pound and will be liable for a % of the UK national debt up until if it leaves.

    I cant say if id vote leave if i were Scottish because im not I can say being English I think its a romantic reason they are having this based on history not modern day sense.

    If they go they will have little presence on the world stage and little negotiating power whereas the UK punches way way above its weight in all areas economically politically and influence, its unlikely Scotland leaving will damage the UK much imo but it could be a very hard time for Scotland. they wont be able to do much on their own and an example is due to them having free grad system they would be forced to offer it for free to all of Europe should they be allowed to join the EU which in any case is doubtful and would probably be blocked by someone like Spain for they have problems of their own with part of the country wishing to split off. admitting Scotland to the EU would cause a lot of problems for other member nations.
     
  6. johannmaximus

    johannmaximus Well-Known Member

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    I know that if Scotland were to become independent, that they would join the Nordic Council. Also, I understood it that the monarch was a figurehead by now. Still, if Scotland wants independence, give it to them. America did pretty well, Ireland did pretty well, India did pretty well, so Scotland might do well. I hope they vote yes. Other than that I can't really say much, not being well involved with Scottish and UK politics.
     
  7. Gandalf Greyhame

    Gandalf Greyhame Well-Known Member

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    1: We Americans do care :p . I'd vote for being their own country, and I don't think that England should get a vote.
    2: Same as victor said, they haven't shown nearly as much desire to WANT to leave.
    3:The queen is an impressive relic of history- still worth having, but her historical claim to scotland should not interfere with their desire for freedom.
     
  8. bambara

    bambara Guest

    OK but note that you Americans fought a war against the group of states who decided that on balance they no longer wanted to be a part of the union which at that time had been in existence for under 100 years.
    The act of union between England (and Wales and Ireland) and Scotland occurred in 1707 (following the previous situation where both countries had shared a monarch)

    That act (or more accurately those acts as one was passed in Scotland and a separate one in England) joined the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland (previously separate states) into a single, united kingdom named "Great Britain".

    The fact that a bunch of idiots with a romanticised view of what is now ancient history want to break up that union is rather like the idea that the USA would seriously consider dissolution with the South becoming a separate state under a combination of various historical re-enactment societies who have a romanticised view of the "lost cause".:blink:

    The south will rise again yall...
     
  9. braetwalda

    braetwalda Well-Known Member

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    The difference is that India and America are capable of supporting themselves Ireland meanwhile from what I can gather has a pretty serious debt problem (relativley speaking).
    I've no strong feelings either way concerning Scotlands independance but as i've said I think they'd be in for a pretty nasty shock if they did say yes.
     
  10. Dubiouss

    Dubiouss Guest

    and then they implent driving on the right side :p
     
  11. Victor Kruger

    Victor Kruger Well-Known Member

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    They already drive on the correct side, all civilised countries do :p
     
  12. Gandalf Greyhame

    Gandalf Greyhame Well-Known Member

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    Well, then the USA has a good measurement system! ;)
     
  13. Victor Kruger

    Victor Kruger Well-Known Member

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    It is indeed and you got it like all the good basics there, from us :D