[SaltineJesus] Western Week of NonViolence and My Journey

[DeletedUser]

No need to get sarcastic with me. If you want bloody and violent, this really isn't it.

I wasn't contradicting myself. There was a time when soldiers were at least well-behaved and could be respected. I'm saying that since this current war has been so prolonged, I'm seeing more and more videos of soldiers in Iraq terrorizing the citizens. I can understand boredom, but they don't need to be having fun at the expense of others.

Totally agree with you. I'm a soldier and I'm ashamed of these actions. I'm not an American soldier but a soldier anyway. There are laws and strict ways of using our weapons but there is the human factor. Watch the movie "Generation kill" to understand what I'm talking about. Those soldiers are not humans just killing machines made for the service of psychos.

 

[DeletedUser]

There was a time when soldiers were at least well-behaved and could be respected.

That's a fantasy. The nature of men and the nature of soldiers is remarkably unchanged throughout recorded history. Some will fight for honor but always will there be a corruptible portion do it for the sheer pleasure of violently asserting themselves over others. It's madness to train men to kill and not expect that to affect them psychologically.

SaltineJesus, are you a Preacher or something?

I know you are a Religious person, but I don't hold anything against from you though, just asking.

I'm not a preacher, just a fisherman with a stake in the well-being of the world.

 

[DeletedUser]

It's madness to train men to kill and not expect that to affect them psychologically.

That is not madness, that is business. The biggest business in the world. Nasty or not, we can't turn our head away from that. Living in a violent world means that you have to be violent to survive.

 

[DeletedUser]

That's a fantasy. The nature of men and the nature of soldiers is remarkably unchanged throughout recorded history. Some will fight for honor but always will there be a corruptible portion do it for the sheer pleasure of violently asserting themselves over others.

Unchanged? I'll admit, I won't say that every single soldier has pure intentions, but I'd say the bloodlust has at least grown compared to a few decades ago.

It's madness to train men to kill and not expect that to affect them psychologically.

There's that psychological talk again. You know that not all humans are inevitably prone to suffering from such a thing. I've always thought it to be bull**** that you can kill someone and have a 'mental disorder' whether you feel guilt for your actions or not. Perhaps it is you, who observes, that has something wrong with your mind - to be able to group every single human who has ever killed, in the same group, regardless of the affects afterwards - if there were any.

I'm not a preacher, just a fisherman with a stake in the well-being of the world.

Stop that.

At least if you're being serious.

 

[DeletedUser]

That is not madness, that is business. The biggest business in the world. Nasty or not, we can't turn our head away from that. Living in a violent world means that you have to be violent to survive.

It's business to train men to kill and not expect that to affect them psychologically?

I must be honest, I'm not sure I follow.

In any case, it is based off some assumptions that we as a culture have held for a long time but are incredibly reluctant to examine closely. Our world is violent because we train people to be violent and those violent people bring violence upon the world.

Doesn't that seem silly? Doesn't it seem like there may be a way to break that cycle?

Unchanged? I'll admit, I won't say that every single soldier has pure intentions, but I'd say the bloodlust has at least grown compared to a few decades ago.

That is like the old generation complaining about the moral decay in youth.

"Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyrannize their teachers."
-Socrates (469-399 BC)

Naive fantasy with no real connection to how unchanging men's natures really are through generations.

There's that psychological talk again. You know that not all humans are inevitably prone to suffering from such a thing. I've always thought it to be bull**** that you can kill someone and have a 'mental disorder' whether you feel guilt for your actions or not. Perhaps it is you, who observes, that has something wrong with your mind - to be able to group every single human who has ever killed, in the same group, regardless of the affects afterwards - if there were any.

Absolutes are for mathematics, not for the real world. If you think that their training and their experiences are not damaging to the goodly human psyche then I would recommend you sit down and talk with veterans of our wars.

Stop that.

At least if you're being serious.

Stop what?

 

[DeletedUser]

That is like the old generation complaining about the moral decay in youth.

"Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyrannize their teachers."
-Socrates (469-399 BC)

Naive fantasy with no real connection to how unchanging men's natures really are through generations.

Then you compare today's society with that of hundreds of years ago. Bring someone from then to this age, they'll think it's the end of the world. Yeah, I know that's a rather bland stereotype, but it works.

Absolutes are for mathematics, not for the real world. If you think that their training and their experiences are not damaging to the goodly human psyche then I would recommend you sit down and talk with veterans of our wars.

I have. Know you that every individual has had their own experiences. The people you've met and the people I've met are completely different. There are soldiers who are still the same now as they were back then; if they have not already forgotten, they see it as just another handful of years in their lives.

Stop what?

Stop roleplaying as your Wanderer avatar when you're speaking seriously. If you're just preaching opinions with no real objective, it's fine. However, it is completely irrelevant to this conversation and inappropriate to be stating your convictions and right after throw in a quip about being a damn fisherman.

 

[DeletedUser]

However, it is completely irrelevant to this conversation and inappropriate to be stating your convictions and right after throw in a quip about being a damn fisherman.

Fishermen don't have convictions?

 

[DeletedUser]

Actually, if the discussion is about a world other than The West, it shouldn't be here at all.

 

[DeletedUser]

Fishermen don't have convictions?

FFFFFFFFFFFF-

Oh God, all of my brain cells just died.

 

[DeletedUser]

It's business to train men to kill and not expect that to affect them psychologically?

I must be honest, I'm not sure I follow.

In any case, it is based off some assumptions that we as a culture have held for a long time but are incredibly reluctant to examine closely. Our world is violent because we train people to be violent and those violent people bring violence upon the world.

Doesn't that seem silly? Doesn't it seem like there may be a way to break that cycle?

Of course, there are ways to break the cycle but in that business no one wants to break the flow of money. Being a mercenary is something like to sell your soul.
If you feel that I admired them you are wrong. I'm against this kind of world so I joined the army.

 

[DeletedUser]

Actually, if the discussion is about a world other than The West, it shouldn't be here at all.

The discussion is on the nature of men, the finer points of which support the effort for Western Week of Nonviolence. There is relevance to this.

FFFFFFFFFFFF-

Oh God, all of my brain cells just died.

I'm sorry. I am trying to understand you but you keep making arguments that are either void of sense or irrelevant so you can see why I might have trouble.

Of course, there are ways to break the cycle but in that business no one wants to break the flow of money. Being a mercenary is something like to sell your soul.
If you feel that I admired them you are wrong. I'm against this kind of world so I joined the army.

This is a very good point. The business of war is very deeply entrenched in the highest echelons of our leadership. Quite a task it will be in removing and redefining it.

 

[DeletedUser]

They are neither void of sense nor irrelevant. You stated one thing, I stated another.

This is just our usual game of cat and mouse that ends with you stopping the coversation altogether.

*Sigh*

 

[DeletedUser]

Well, in all fairness to continue a civil debate both parties have to contribute substance. You never satisfactorily explained why my answering a question about my profession with the answer of "fisherman" met by a "stop that" from you.

Am I not allowed to answer other parties?

 

[DeletedUser]

The discussion is on the nature of men, the finer points of which support the effort for Western Week of Nonviolence. There is relevance to this.

I wasn't saying one way or the other if it belonged here, I was just refering to the comment

Stop roleplaying as your Wanderer avatar when you're speaking seriously. If you're just preaching opinions with no real objective, it's fine. However, it is completely irrelevant to this conversation and inappropriate to be stating your convictions and right after throw in a quip about being a damn fisherman.

If the opinions of a Wanderer here are irrelevant and inappropriate, than the discussion must be too.

 

[DeletedUser]

Well, in all fairness to continue a civil debate both parties have to contribute substance. You never satisfactorily explained why my answering a question about my profession with the answer of "fisherman" met by a "stop that" from you.

Am I not allowed to answer other parties?

I don't even know anymore. You keep editing your posts. At one point you probably screwed the quotes up and I thought it was directed at me, so I answered.

Ugh, forget it.

 

[DeletedUser]

Half-way through the week! Hope everyone has made an extra effort to be good to those around them!

 

[DeletedUser]

Oh, was that this week? lol, I really don't think many paid attention. Then you have those ingame who never come to the main forums therefore know nothing about this little week of nonviolence.

 

[DeletedUser]

Oh, was that this week? lol, I really don't think many paid attention. Then you have those ingame who never come to the main forums therefore know nothing about this little week of nonviolence.

That really can't be helped, but....

Who wants to make a bet he was randomly mailing people in game to spread the word? Lol.

 

[DeletedUser]

That really can't be helped, but....

Who wants to make a bet he was randomly mailing people in game to spread the word? Lol.

OMG, that would probably be the bet I would lose, lol

 

[DeletedUser]

Is there any point posting in this Topic?