[SaltineJesus] Character of men

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DeletedUser

Whatever you may be sure of, be sure of this, that you are dreadfully like other people.
James Russell Lowell

This is not meant as an insult, just to point out that the struggles with which you are dealing have occured countless times throughout our existence and you are not enduring them alone.

I would imagine, New Stranger, that your conception of God (and doubt of him) is of this being existing as some conscious entity that literally watches over us and meddles in human affairs. Is that correct?

What reasons were given to you for not swearing?
 
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DeletedUser

ok to the first part, yeah i can't imagine a huge guy looking at some crystal ball, poking his finger in everynow and then. i actually imagine him as some kid who was given like a packet of sea monkeys, he added life and stuff to this little ball, played with it for a while, then put it in a box and forgot about it. maybe even moved house and left it behind? who knows, but if he was here i certainly don't think he is now.

and second, no swearing cos our parents said so, thats all i remember. but their reason invovled god.
 

DeletedUser

ok to the first part, yeah i can't imagine a huge guy looking at some crystal ball, poking his finger in everynow and then. i actually imagine him as some kid who was given like a packet of sea monkeys, he added life and stuff to this little ball, played with it for a while, then put it in a box and forgot about it. maybe even moved house and left it behind? who knows, but if he was here i certainly don't think he is now.

and second, no swearing cos our parents said so, thats all i remember. but their reason invovled god.
Look at the world around you, look at all the things here in the vast universe of space and time. Imagine that all things seems perfect. The air makes you breathe, the sun warms you up and give you light, the moon gives you a stunning view at night while it stabilizes the wobble of the Earth, look at the seas where you have fish to eat, look at the land where oxygen-giving trees grow, look how complex are the structures of your body right now you have hands, feet, eyes, nose ears and tongue. You may not notice it but look how diverse is your life right now. It seems like if someone very great had planned it all, from the very beginning just to make this world a perfect place for you to live. If there is no God then its hard to imagine that all these things could have done it themselves by nature. I want you to ask yourself with that very question everyday you wake up and see if there is really no God.
 

DeletedUser

I did not force you to believe on what I said. I just think that you should better be careful on what you're saying. You are free to post your opinions here, but its wrong to slander what others believe. I think you're a bit of a faith critic.

You called me out because of my avatar and now all of a sudden I slander other's beliefs?

Don't force your beliefs on others if you do not want them to debate against you.
 

DeletedUser

I agree with the avatar lust women bit, but let's not ague over religion. it's a Veery touchy issue. (As we can all see)
 

DeletedUser

ok to the first part, yeah i can't imagine a huge guy looking at some crystal ball, poking his finger in everynow and then. i actually imagine him as some kid who was given like a packet of sea monkeys, he added life and stuff to this little ball, played with it for a while, then put it in a box and forgot about it. maybe even moved house and left it behind? who knows, but if he was here i certainly don't think he is now.

and second, no swearing cos our parents said so, thats all i remember. but their reason invovled god.

I can't imagine it even as that. Giving the Ultimate (or God, Allah, what you will) a consciousness (in the sense that we understand) it immediately places limits upon Him. To place limits upon something that is ultimate and infinite is irrational from the beginning.

If you have some leanings towards Eastern traditions, it may be helpful for you to try to pull the idea of God away from some of the language we use to describe Him (which even I tend to obscure with my use of "He," but sometimes we fall into habits for sake of tradition). Instead of a thinking being that planning all of creation, imagine instead the common roots that all things share - from participation in the universe down to atomic structure. Buddhism in particular teaches to look into the emptiness of things to discover their true nature. This is not a sympathy for nihilism or a denial of existence per se, but rather an acknowledgment that the human mind divides up the universe in order to understand it, and that to gain TRUE insight, one must move beyond those classifications.

Think of it this way: in biology we learn how to classify all walks of life. We learn what things are and are not through comparison with others. We, as beings, name and divide and organize everything under the sun and at some point we seem to think that all things really are entirely different and have no commonalities. At the heart of all major world religions I think you will find that this conclusion is revolted against.

I ask my Buddhist brothers and sisters to forgive my very elementary understanding of this topic, but I think it might prove somewhat useful, if shallow:

Imagine the human body. It is a whole but is made up of many systems - circulatory, respiratory, nervous, so on. Take a look at any one of those systems. The skeletal system is made of a collection of bones. Those bones themselves are composed of a complex set of chemicals, but principally calcium. Look at calcium, it has an atomic structure: protons, neutrons, electrons, quarks and so on to the point where science has yet to fully describe it all. One can look at any object and dive down so deeply that the original object grows empty of its own being - what we call a "bone" is a formation of calcium. What we call "calcium" is itself simply a formation of atoms. Looking at the atom, can you see the bone?

When you get to the bottom of all that, what do you have left?

Again, this is in no way an argument that nothing exists and that life is pointless - it is, in fact, just the opposite. It is aimed at helping us see that through all these distinctions we make (white, black; American, English; right, wrong; man, woman; Outlaw, TribalWarrior; so on) there is something that underlies it all, from which we come and to which we shall return.

When men divide themselves for almost any reason whatsoever (and they are legion) pride and distrust grow. Remembering this underlying unity is the key to universal love - Christ's message (and that of Muhammad and the Buddha, when read properly).

It may be helpful for you to look to God in that light. The heart of the bible is a guide for dropping some of these distinctions and embracing our unity. To read it literally is to misunderstand it entirely. Much of it is meant metaphorically, some of it is written within a context and quite meaningless when removed from that context. Leviticus speaks of the evil of consuming shellfish and pork, two things that seem absurd when removed from religion. At the time, however, meat preparation was not of high standard and there were precious few ways to preserve food, meaning poisoning and trichinosis were at high risk. The rules protected people's health during that age but are somewhat useless to us today and so carry no moral weight.

In some sense that is what your parents' ban on swearing reflects. Tp curse is not an affront to God, but it shows a disrespect for those around you and is usually done in rage - two things which demonstrate a lack of love for others. This lack of love distances one from the ultimate and so that is why they banned you from doing it.

And look at that. I'm getting all preachy again. I hope you got through that, Stranger, and that at least a little bit was helpful to you. :)
 

DeletedUser

i got bored halfway and stopped reading, just to be honest. and bill, i don't think that everything is perfect, for one thing my body has many flaws and so does lots of things to do with humans. we are a plague on the earth! i once saw an image of the world as a plain looking ball, and the spread of human life on it was shown as orange splotches. it looked like mould on a fruit. and it can only be worse now.
 

DeletedUser

on the purity test I got 98%. Lord, help me with that two percent. Only you can change how men think and I have failed you. Bring me back to your loving embrace.
 

DeletedUser

i got bored halfway and stopped reading, just to be honest.

I figured you might. I often have trouble being concise.

In any case, your mind isn't ready to really focus on these issues so it might be a good exercise for you to give people the benefit of the doubt while knowing you still have a lot to dive into on this subject before you can make any hard claims about it.
 

DeletedUser

i got bored halfway and stopped reading, just to be honest. and bill, i don't think that everything is perfect, for one thing my body has many flaws and so does lots of things to do with humans. we are a plague on the earth! i once saw an image of the world as a plain looking ball, and the spread of human life on it was shown as orange splotches. it looked like mould on a fruit. and it can only be worse now.
If it wasn't for the earth you wont be here. I wasn't saying that the world is ultimately perfect, it is SEEMINGLY perfect. What matters is that it makes you live and gives you a place to live in. Complaining on what you are right now is immoral. Imagine, it was good that you woke up this morning alive and able to reply to the posts here in the forum so you have no reason to say that we were not created well.
 

DeletedUser

You called me out because of my avatar and now all of a sudden I slander other's beliefs?

Don't force your beliefs on others if you do not want them to debate against you.
I'm not looking for debates I just think you are being hard on SJ for a few times. That's all.
 

DeletedUser

woke up? i don't sleep! ahh well, i'm just going to put up with atheism (spelt right?) and carry on with life. anyways i do beleive in a form of reincarnation. it involves science and buddhism and seems to work perfectly!
 

DeletedUser

woke up? i don't sleep! ahh well, i'm just going to put up with atheism (spelt right?) and carry on with life. anyways i do beleive in a form of reincarnation. it involves science and buddhism and seems to work perfectly!
Man, you'll get a very...... long......... comment from SJ with that one. Before you said that, you never mention Buddhism, maybe you are now being tested by your conscience on what I said previously.
 

DeletedUser

Buddhism would dictate you not worry about the afterlife (or reincarnation) and instead worry about living well here in now in this present life. Understanding Christian heaven and hell as states of being in this life also help to frame the words of God in a more useful context. Similar ideas, different words. Don't fall victim to shopping-market religion where one pics and chooses the parts that sound reasonable while leaving out the things that sound more difficult. If you're going to name religions, be true to them.

No long answer, just lots more living to do.
 
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DeletedUser

Can we please drop the religion and get back to the game. None of you are going to convince the others.
 

DeletedUser

I'm not looking for debates I just think you are being hard on SJ for a few times. That's all.

I don't consider myself as being hard on the guy. Whether this is what he truly believes in, or just roleplaying, there's a person there who is bringing up a very real subject that can be found as easily debatable. Either way, there's always the possibility of proving one of those personalities wrong. I do admit, I was pushing to see how far he was willing to go, but that is understandable human logic and pretty much foreseeable in any good debate.

I find some good conversation in him. Pointless arguing is one of the backbones of life.

Can we please drop the religion and get back to the game. None of you are going to convince the others.

Oh, pshaw. As much as we'd all like an off-topic forum, we can't have one. So, yeah, this place will do.

Anyways, you don't have to convince anyone to spout off your beliefs regardless(or what you pretend to believe, whether through roleplaying or hypocrisy). I'd just like it if these two didn't try to force theirs on others.
 

DeletedUser

ok peeps i think their is an unwritten rule which includes no Political or Relgious conversations allowed in the forums so can it.
 
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