Roadmap 2011 Feedback

JoxerTM

There will be no second key new quest(s) and it won't become auctionable nor droppable.
 

Elmyr

I don't think making it droppable is even a reasonable suggestion. It completely removes the 2nd step and makes it a part of the third. You want it to be EASIER for people who made the wrong decision than those who chose correctly? Not all of us who chose the correct path did so because it was easier.

On one world, before placate shaman and beginning long before it was possible to get the GG, I spent 37 levels, from 75 to 112, speccing for The raid. On two other worlds, after placate shaman, I respecced from pure strength/fort fighter builds, both of which required a large respec for The raid.

I could see adding a quest for the 2nd key (or better yet with the 2nd key as an optional reward), or possibly making it droppable in steel boxes and as rare as Buffalo Bill's soft leg guards or William Tilghman's pistol belt, but rewarding people for choosing wrongly would be ridiculous.
 

iwatchhotfuzz

Well-Known Member
but rewarding people for choosing wrongly would be ridiculous.
Theres also the issue of people who simple didnt know aswell though. Think back to when Hernandos Sword started entering the game, people didnt have a clue about the 3 rivers path being a requirement, its not their fault they just didnt know. Not saying they should be rewarded but they certainly shouldnt be punished for not taking the correct path for key 2.
 

rice farmer

there is no correct path, there is a better path, though. just do some research next time.
 

iwatchhotfuzz

Well-Known Member
For the record I have chosen all the correct paths. Im on about the people who simply didnt know there was a "correct" path and a wrong one.
 

Elmyr

Not saying they should be rewarded but they certainly shouldnt be punished for not taking the correct path for key 2.
I may have spoken a bit too strongly ("you?!?, no!" Yes, it's true), but just picking up your second key while searching for your third is an extremely silly idea and the devs would agree. I wouldn't be opposed to some other method of getting a second key, like from a steel box, or as a reward decision in a new quest, but the devs don't seem to be rushing to give people a way to correct bad decisions.
 

bc74

Well-Known Member
my good but turning bad, and becoming ugly is crafting. the more people need a $2 glass of water, the more $#&*% out there are becoming greedy and putting these simple items on the market for $2500. i refuse to pay this, and so i am stuck doing all of these level 10 jobs all day in order to TRY to get them myself. then...when i finish a product and its game listed sales price is $100, i feel i have no choice but to raise the price. i complained to alliance members about selling to each other at the listed price or a reasonable amount higher, but they too are becoming more and more likely to sell a $16 piece of wood for $2000. basically its getting out of hand and i only see it getting worse once everyone knows that a cook needs a pan from a blacksmith, for example, in order to make higher level recipes which offer labor points, vigor, dodging, etc. I wish people selling a $5 item for $2000 could be reported and warned to cut it out, or that there was some kind of % you were not allowed to go over the game listed price.
 

Galen M

It should take, on average, 1 hour to get a glass of water, with practically no income. I could spend that 1 hour on a regular job and make $1000. Why should I charge less than $1000 for the Glass of Water? Other items are even rarer, so they should have even higher a price. I'm not sure what you're complaining about.
 

futurama1001

Well-Known Member
Think back to when Hernandos Sword started entering the game, people didnt have a clue about the 3 rivers path being a requirement, its not their fault they just didnt know.
On this note, the difference between the Hernando's decision and the raid decision is that the Hernando's quest was part of the game right from the beginning - or at least before anyone who ended up reaching the point of being able to obtain Hernando's had completed Three rivers - regardless of whether anyone knew about it or not. The Golden Gun, on the other hand, was implemented over two years after the game was created, after many people had chosen the incorrect decision with no apparent consequences.

There's a difference between choosing the wrong decision for a quest that exists and choosing the wrong decision for a quest that doesn't.
 

hmaryus

Member
Theres also the issue of people who simple didnt know aswell though. Think back to when Hernandos Sword started entering the game, people didnt have a clue about the 3 rivers path being a requirement, its not their fault they just didnt know. Not saying they should be rewarded but they certainly shouldnt be punished for not taking the correct path for key 2.
Agree !
 

iwatchhotfuzz

Well-Known Member
There's a difference between choosing the wrong decision for a quest that exists and choosing the wrong decision for a quest that doesn't.
Its all the one if you dont know about it. There could be players out there now who started just after the golden gun was released, does this mean they automatically know about the quest and what decisions to take in other quests? Of course not, you could have a player who keeps himself to himself and doesnt read the forums/fan sites.

I dont agree with the notions of having options which can render future quests incompletable simply because you didnt know about it. Like I said previously, I dont think free keys should be handed out as a result but another way to obtain them is needed really.
 

bc74

Well-Known Member
It should take, on average, 1 hour to get a glass of water, with practically no income. I could spend that 1 hour on a regular job and make $1000. Why should I charge less than $1000 for the Glass of Water? Other items are even rarer, so they should have even higher a price. I'm not sure what you're complaining about.

granite on the other hand, not so much. 2000, 2500 are the prices on the market for 1 granite. what i am complaining about is that its driving the prices way up for everything and getting worse every day. eventually, if someone finishes a product worth 2-3 hundred, but had to pay 2000 for granite, it only stands to reason they will sell their final product for 10x or more what it is worth.
 

Elmyr

Supply and demand. A lot of the prices are stupid, but granite can be a pain to farm and it's used by three of the four professions starter recipes. There's no excuse for selling to allies for stupid prices though, because you'll need products yourself, plus you'll be selling each other crafted items.
 

scooby doobie doo

Supply and demand. A lot of the prices are stupid, but granite can be a pain to farm and it's used by three of the four professions starter recipes. There's no excuse for selling to allies for stupid prices though, because you'll need products yourself, plus you'll be selling each other crafted items.
Yeah, I haven't bothered to buy a single product off the open market. I just get what I can from alliance members and farm the rest myself when I can. These crafting skills could be a big benefit for alliances but they require at least two or three dedicated harvesters for each crafter to be able to level up at a decent pace. The problem is where's the incentive for anyone to be a harvester? Below level 100 the crafter can feed part of their profits back to the harvesters but once they break level 100 they can't sell the products they're crafting to level up so how are they supposed to get the money to pay off the harvesters?
 
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Elmyr

It depends on the craft. On most worlds, blacksmiths have no trouble getting fort fighters to grind products for them for bayonets.
 

scooby doobie doo

Ok here's a fix that'll be needed. As it stands now the best product a tonic peddler can make is cigarettes which you learn the recipe for automatically at level 0.

cigarettes take about one hour of work to make (for non-adventurer with premium) and give 7% increase in work AND duelling motivation (mining coal is also a decent money job)

chewing tobacco takes about 6 to 7 hours of work to make and gives 25% increase in work motivation (and the jobs involved are low pay and low xp)

so basically I won't be able to charge 6 to 7 times the price for chewing tobacco when someone could just use 3.5 cigarettes to get the same effect AND increase their duelling motivation at the same time by the same amount (equivalent to 2.5 pipe brushes). Yes you have to wait 9 minutes between consecutive uses of products but that's hardly even worth considering.

The same problem exists for pipe cleaners which I will never make.

Tea, which gives a 20% energy boost (essentially 30% if you have premium), is another product that is flawed. It takes around 7 or 8 hours of work to produce and gives you back the energy to work for less than 1 more hour (1.25 hours with premium). If you were just producing them for personal consumption while leveling your crafting skill then yes, it makes sense but you can't sell it because it'll never be worth the time it takes to produce it. That's not even considering the fact that you have to buy one of the ingredients from another profession which means even more time is involved to go and pick it up and probably some kind of profit margin for the seller.

I think either you need to increase the drop rates for the ingredients (which will effect other game mechanics like quests in some cases), increase the bonuses given for higher end products to reflect the amount of work that goes into making them, or rework the recipes to reduce the amount of work time required to produce the end products (this one has the effect of pissing off a lot of crafters who've already put in a lot of time and dollars to stack up ingredients which may end up no longer being needed).

I think another possible improvement is to start giving products multiple uses such as being consumable for a bonus and/or being used in a further recipe, giving crafters choices and increasing demand for products on the market.
 

Elmyr

chewing tobacco takes about 6 to 7 hours of work to make and gives 25% increase in work motivation (and the jobs involved are low pay and low xp)
Chewing tobacco also isn't very efficient to use. It's really only useful after doing a job offline for 6 hours. If you have a good supply, you can afford to use a cigarette every hour to keep your motivation at 100%.
 

scooby doobie doo

Chewing tobacco also isn't very efficient to use. It's really only useful after doing a job offline for 6 hours. If you have a good supply, you can afford to use a cigarette every hour to keep your motivation at 100%.
What they could do there is allow for work/duel motivation to go over 100%. Perhaps they could even allow the additional % to give a further bonus to the jobs you're working or xp from duels. If they set it so you can't add further bonuses once you're over 100% then that would probably make it worthwhile to get the chewing tobacco without making anything too overpowered. so basically you could get your work motivation to 125% with chewing tobacco or 107% with cigarettes. For jobs like grave robbing I'd think that would definitely be worth the additional expense.
 

supraxus

Once again I have to say, I find it utterly ludicrous that something like a Jug gets consumed. It's just not normal in any sense (please spare me the 'this game's not based on reality') bit.

Consuming water, yes. Items like wool, flowers, yes. But come on, consuming a jug? How? You're not breaking the jug, just using it to pour water!!!

Ditto for the frying pan. Same story....

What's the point of this rant? It's to get some changes to the crafting system. As it is, too many things are consumed that shouldn't be, that induce a lack of interest in crafting.
 

Elmyr

What they could do there is allow for work/duel motivation to go over 100%. Perhaps they could even allow the additional % to give a further bonus to the jobs you're working or xp from duels. If they set it so you can't add further bonuses once you're over 100% then that would probably make it worthwhile to get the chewing tobacco without making anything too overpowered.
Just allowing your motivation to go over 100% WOULD allow a further bonus, and that would be overpowered. Use 14 cigarettes for ~200% motivation and you'll get double XP and cash from all jobs, and just 1 more after every hour you work would keep it at 200%. Use 20 liquorice to get 400% motivation and get a guaranteed item drop every one hour job, and use 1 cigarette per hour to keep it there. The formula would have to be changed.

Consuming water, yes. Items like wool, flowers, yes. But come on, consuming a jug? How? You're not breaking the jug, just using it to pour water!!!
And cutting board, tinderboxes, canteens, knives in some recipes, etc. That applies to a lot of usable items as well. A bayonet can only be used once? A travel bag? Ten travel bags will cut your travel time 65%? It seems like that many would slow you down, not make you faster.