Revenge Dueling: Defying space and time

Wyndll

Proposal
Currently duels take place where the defender was at the time the duel was initiated. When the challenger arrives, the duel will commence at that original location, but if the defender has traveled elsewhere, they will have to come all the way back to get revenge. Keep in mind, even if the duel just happened.

I propose that for a short time period, 20 minutes, your challengers remain at the top of the duel list so that the travel distance is 0, allowing you to seek immediate revenge if desired.


Revenge duels still have to meet the criteria of 1 challenge per hour per target.

Current Workaround
None. Currently you have to travel back to original location, even if the duel just happened.

Details
I feel that the current duel system works; it’s practical (no chasing) and makes sense (no longer in saloon). The only improvement I would like to see is the ability to retaliate on a recent duel without having to backtrack. If the duel just happened, players shouldn’t have to travel back (sometimes hour+) to challenge the person who just attacked you. I’ve been in situations where the challenger traveled 4-5 hours and during that time I’ve gone about my business to find my attacker just dueled me 3 hours distance away.


Without making it too complicated, we could just build upon the new duel window and automatically place recent challengers at the top of the list. Regardless of the actual distance, they will be 0:00 away. The challenger still remains at the location they set the duel for (to prevent potential abuse) and is still within shooting distance of the defender.

Only the defender will see the challenger as 0:00 away. Everyone else will see the challenger at the actual distance they are at.

Time Period:
I suggest the window for revenge should be 20minutes with the revenge duel itself taking another 10 minutes. Any longer and it opens up the potential for an endless cycle of revenge duels between players who are hours apart. (i.e. if the revenge window falls outside the 1 challenge per hour per target.)

After the revenge duel, if original challenger wants to pursue you further, they will have to initiate the new duel at your current location and the process will have to start all over again.

Again, revenge duels still have to meet the criteria of 1 challenge per hour per target.


KO: (Thanks to Joxer)
If you are KO'd by the challenger or by any job, quest duel, npc duel, the revenge tracker simply clears along with your health, energy, and jobs queued.

Abuse Prevention
None. The current system already has filtered out loopholes.

Visual Aids
Not necessary but if you haven’t seen the new dueling window:


Summary
Innogames has done a great job in fine tuning the dueling system to make it reasonable and logical. This would be an additional feature that will offer the players an exciting and complete dueling experience.

Administration
Does this idea meet the Ideas Guidelines & Criteria? Yes
Is this idea appear on any of the Previously Suggested Ideas List? No
 
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JoxerTM

So... Assuming you dueled me while I was working on Transport ammo and my health dropped on 100... And I got unlucky, BOOM happens and I get teleported to my town on other side of the universe... What should the game do in that case?

Man, you're making things complicated. If you want to take a revenge on someone who escaped to another location, use oats, nuggets or play as dueler who doesn't need to be *that* close to his target. Or take a revenge another day.
No to this idea you're suggesting. Sorry.
 

TJ Tuttle

Well-Known Member
what, you want a special "heat seeking revenge bullet" that will travel the width of the west for you?

what joxer said.
 

Wyndll

So... Assuming you dueled me while I was working on Transport ammo and my health dropped on 100... And I got unlucky, BOOM happens and I get teleported to my town on other side of the universe... What should the game do in that case?
That's a good point. I'll think about that some more. but within 20 minutes of a ko would you even want to retaliate?


Man, you're making things complicated. If you want to take a revenge on someone who escaped to another location, use oats, nuggets or play as dueler who doesn't need to be *that* close to his target. Or take a revenge another day.
No to this idea you're suggesting. Sorry.
This is not complicated at all. If someone hits you in the back and runs off, you should be able to turn right back around and smack them back. Not turn around to find them where you were 2 hours ago.
 

TJ Tuttle

Well-Known Member
That's a good point. I'll think about that some more. but within 20 minutes of a ko would you even want to retaliate?




This is not complicated at all. If someone hits you in the back and runs off, you should be able to turn right back around and smack them back. Not turn around to find them where you were 2 hours ago.
You want to smack them back..you either need to chase them or be on line when they hit you. Not expect them to have moved 2 hours and ago and still be right there for you.

Thats what nuggets and oats are for.

No to this.
 

Wyndll

what, you want a special "heat seeking revenge bullet" that will travel the width of the west for you?

what joxer said.
No, I think with the latest improvements to dueling no one should get hit with a heat seeking bullet. That's what happens to you now as a traveling defender. The challenger arrives where they initiated the duel and then lobs heat seeking bullets at you to wherever you are now. You could be checking the forums or your inventory and suddenly notice you got hit, within 5 seconds immediately check to see who attacked you and they could be 2 hours away, not because they used premium/oats and ran somewhere else, but because that's where you were 2 hours ago when they initiated the duel.
 

Wyndll

You want to smack them back..you either need to chase them or be on line when they hit you. Not expect them to have moved 2 hours and ago and still be right there for you.
No to this.

That's my exact point. Even if i was online when they attacked, if I moved from the time they clicked "duel" and the 2 hours it took them to get to me I can't smack them back. because they're where I was 2 hours ago. Again this isn't about them moving, its me as a defender.
 

TJ Tuttle

Well-Known Member
So what your saying is you are at point A and they travel 2 hours to where you are. They get there and you are in the process of traveling to point B but have not arrived yet when you get hit.

And what you are also saying is you are not back on line until you get to point B to find out you got hit back two hours ago at point A. Because if you were you could cancel that travel and still be right back there.

And they are not hitting you with a magic bullet because until you reach point B you are in fact still at point A.
 

Grimniir

Member
So what your saying is you are at point A and they travel 2 hours to where you are. They get there and you are in the process of traveling to point B but have not arrived yet when you get hit.

And what you are also saying is you are not back on line until you get to point B to find out you got hit back two hours ago at point A. Because if you were you could cancel that travel and still be right back there.

And they are not hitting you with a magic bullet because until you reach point B you are in fact still at point A.
Read his post.

He says that he left a place two hours ago, arrived at the new spot, and works there. Then someone who initiated a duel(could be a loooong time ago) when he was at his old place will hit him there. When he wants to retaliate he finds that he is 2 hrs away from where he was just hit. Even without premium he could queue up 16 hrs sleep and then the duel and clear the sleeping out once he sees the other guy far away. That means he can actually hit you where you were 16 hrs ago.

This is not a bad idea. :)
 

Wyndll

Read his post.

He says that he left a place two hours ago, arrived at the new spot, and works there. Then someone who initiated a duel(could be a loooong time ago) when he was at his old place will hit him there. When he wants to retaliate he finds that he is 2 hrs away from where he was just hit. Even without premium he could queue up 16 hrs sleep and then the duel and clear the sleeping out once he sees the other guy far away. That means he can actually hit you where you were 16 hrs ago.

This is not a bad idea. :)
Thanks for actually taking the time to read this.
 

Wyndll

So what your saying is you are at point A and they travel 2 hours to where you are. They get there and you are in the process of traveling to point B but have not arrived yet when you get hit.

And what you are also saying is you are not back on line until you get to point B to find out you got hit back two hours ago at point A. Because if you were you could cancel that travel and still be right back there.

And they are not hitting you with a magic bullet because until you reach point B you are in fact still at point A.
I'm sure someone with your dueling expertise would understand this is if you'd clear your mind of any presumptions.

This is how the current system works. Follow me on this.

1. You are at point A.
2. MITH is at point X, which is 8 hours away from you. He clicks on your profile and hits "duel". Now he starts walking 8 hours towards you.
3. Of course you don't know this and are minding to your daily business. You head off to pick up and item you bought at point B, which is 2 hours away.
4. Once you pick up your item, you remember that the quest ko protection is no longer in effect and you run to duel Joxer who is 4 hours away at point C.
5. After you ko Joxer and collect his tasty bounty and his money, you decide to head back to town to drop off your earnings. Your town is at point D and is 1:30 hours away.
6. Once there you drop off your money and sit idle while you are checking your inventory and forums.
7. 30 minutes later, MITH has completed his 8 hour trip and the duel starts.
8. 10 minutes later you see a message pop up "You have received a new report: 'Duel: MITH vs. TJ Tuttle'."
9. You immediately check it to find that he only hit you for -100 and you hit him for -1,500 and he's gasping for air. You click on his profile to attack him and finish him off.


Do you know what happens next? In the current system, you will find that he is 7:30 hours away because the duel actually happened at point A: not B, C, or D. Because that's where you were when he clicked "duel".
 

Wyndll

So... Assuming you dueled me while I was working on Transport ammo and my health dropped on 100... And I got unlucky, BOOM happens and I get teleported to my town on other side of the universe... What should the game do in that case?
Okay so I thought about the KO and it is easy enough that your revenge tracker simply clears along with all jobs queued, health, and energy.
 

b00k

No. The challenger can already be hit 45 minutes after the duel, even if he is sleeping in a hotel. Thus the victim can use his revenge from hours away and on a person who is already sleeping somewhere. Duels have become way more difficult and demanding since the start other game. This puts the dueler at too much risk having to worry about the people nearby who might fancy a duel, the one who are planning on using their 45 minutes revenge window, from your idea the "teleport" people who can hit you from the other side of the map.

The reason duels happen at the last spot a player has been is for the challenger's convenience, so he does not have to chase his target for hours. This does not need to get more complicated. And saying that duelers should be ready for any changes, because it's a risky business is not a valid argument.
 

Wyndll

No. The challenger can already be hit 45 minutes after the duel, even if he is sleeping in a hotel. Thus the victim can use his revenge from hours away and on a person who is already sleeping somewhere. Duels have become way more difficult and demanding since the start other game. This puts the dueler at too much risk having to worry about the people nearby who might fancy a duel, the one who are planning on using their 45 minutes revenge window, from your idea the "teleport" people who can hit you from the other side of the map.
I can appreciate the concern of difficulty and complication but personally they shouldn't get in the way of making something better. Although I would like to say that this isn't complicated, from the responses so far maybe it is. But I don't believe this would be difficult for the developers to do, it's more of a hindrance to some players.

Consider that elements of what I'm suggesting already exists. The window I'm suggesting is only 20minutes and that falls within the 45 minutes you're talking about. The challenger is already teleporting to the defender if the defender has moved from the original location.

I'm not suggesting that the current dueling system is flawed, I'm saying that it's great. This is just the one loose end that would make it the complete package for me. It is the way it is now to prevent abuse and exploitation and it doesn't need to be changed.

The reason duels happen at the last spot a player has been is for the challenger's convenience, so he does not have to chase his target for hours. This does not need to get more complicated. And saying that duelers should be ready for any changes, because it's a risky business is not a valid argument.
I'm still not sure if you understand how duels work in terms of when and where they occur. They do not happen at the last spot a player has been, they happen where you where when the challenger initiated the duel.
 

b00k

When talking about difficulties and complication, I wasn't talking about the developers implementing the idea, but instead about how difficult it becomes to duelers. Dueling was way different two years ago when I started playing. You are constructing your idea very well, I am not against it because of any flaws, but because I don't like the gist.

The 20-minute-teleport combined with the 45-minute-revenge is too much.

And about how dueling works. I get very offended when someone implies I don't know something about duels. :laugh: I simply worded myself wrong. Seriously, I have done quite a few.
 

TJ Tuttle

Well-Known Member
I'm sure someone with your dueling expertise would understand this is if you'd clear your mind of any presumptions.

This is how the current system works. Follow me on this.

1. You are at point A.
2. MITH is at point X, which is 8 hours away from you. He clicks on your profile and hits "duel". Now he starts walking 8 hours towards you.
3. Of course you don't know this and are minding to your daily business. You head off to pick up and item you bought at point B, which is 2 hours away.
4. Once you pick up your item, you remember that the quest ko protection is no longer in effect and you run to duel Joxer who is 4 hours away at point C.
5. After you ko Joxer and collect his tasty bounty and his money, you decide to head back to town to drop off your earnings. Your town is at point D and is 1:30 hours away.
6. Once there you drop off your money and sit idle while you are checking your inventory and forums.
7. 30 minutes later, MITH has completed his 8 hour trip and the duel starts.
8. 10 minutes later you see a message pop up "You have received a new report: 'Duel: MITH vs. TJ Tuttle'."
9. You immediately check it to find that he only hit you for -100 and you hit him for -1,500 and he's gasping for air. You click on his profile to attack him and finish him off.


Do you know what happens next? In the current system, you will find that he is 7:30 hours away because the duel actually happened at point A: not B, C, or D. Because that's where you were when he clicked "duel".
If you knew anything about dueling at all you would know that ko'ing Joxer was not possible unless you were a NPC quest or a pre planned ally KO.

So still NO.
 
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Victor Kruger

Well-Known Member
Seems to me the initiator of the duel has had to chase you down to duel you so he shouldnt end up hrs away when you get hit on, but he SHOULD end up on the same spot WHEN THE DUEL FINISHES. ie point D ...

There is no logic to the duel taking place at point A or anyplace else only where the target is when the timer runs out ie point D ..

It would be far better & easier if the player initiating the duel just teleported to wherever the target had moved to and ended up there when the duel completed... that way you get your return duel in should you wish..

No to the OP idea tho its not required if the above happens... oh and scrap the 10 min cool down when you arrive to duel... if hes not on your spot to start then it should just happen when the time is up not give them a chance to duck out and sleep.
 

Wyndll

Seems to me the initiator of the duel has had to chase you down to duel you so he shouldnt end up hrs away when you get hit on, but he SHOULD end up on the same spot WHEN THE DUEL FINISHES. ie point D ...

There is no logic to the duel taking place at point A or anyplace else only where the target is when the timer runs out ie point D ..

It would be far better & easier if the player initiating the duel just teleported to wherever the target had moved to and ended up there when the duel completed... that way you get your return duel in should you wish..

No to the OP idea tho its not required if the above happens... oh and scrap the 10 min cool down when you arrive to duel... if hes not on your spot to start then it should just happen when the time is up not give them a chance to duck out and sleep.
I can't speak for the developers, but teleporting the challenger to where the defender is at the end (point D) can be highly exploitable. This can be abused as a teleportation device itself. (ie your whole town duels an ally who is 2 hours away, he uses nuggets to fly 8 hours across the world to a fort fight, gets ko'd there or ducks into a hotel before your 2 hours run out. When you arrive at Point D, he's unduelable and your whole town just got a 8 hour plane ticket for cost of 2 hours.)

If they do it that way, there's no real way to monitor that abuse and they lose out on nuggets.

It does makes more sense for the duel to be at point D, but it needs to be the way it is with the duel at point A to prevent exploitation.

If you knew anything about dueling at all you would know that ko'ing Joxer was not possible unless you were a NPC quest or a pre planned ally KO.

So still NO.
that is the truth, i hear there is a waiting line.

but are you asserting that he is participating in a prearranged duel? wait, but they did change the rules to include "to provide and/or obtain inordinate amount of experience points, items, or ingame cash." I suppose as long as its not an inordinate amount then we're in the clear.
 
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