Reset Dueling Level

Edlit

Hm, the character level has a cap, why don't give the dueling level a cap too...? How about a cap of 60, 90 or 120 added to the character level?

Then you shouldn't be able to duel non-duelers freely but still will have plenty of targets among the other duelers.

(Please take this for what it is, a random thought from a non-dueler that really has no clue about how dueing works.)

/Edlit
 

Hellstromm

Like I said I can understand you not wanting duelers to rest their dueling level over and over and just rack up XP, but there has to be something other than deleting your account and starting a new one when you run out of targets.
Indeed, but a magic pill isn't it. DL, leveling, xp, dueling, and all associated must be addressed in a balanced fashion. A magic pill (potion) isn't it and, frankly, a one time 50% is only making it okay for a very small pop of players. There are plenty that would prefer a 100%, repeating pill. All in all, it's not a good address. I'm not saying no altogether, I'm just saying this is insufficient and doesn't address so many other issues surrounding DL/xp/dueling.

Be bold, think up something fresh, something new, something sweeping and beneficial to 80% or more of players.
 

Hellstromm

Meh, a cap is something. Better would be a slower rise in dueling levels (less dueling xp obtained). Even better would be a complete retake on how dueling levels impact duels (Elmyr's handicap, for example).
 

HAL0 R3ACH

Active Member
Ok well atleast I know now that for the most part everyone does see a prob with the current DL system. It would not be fair to have people "farm" XP then reset and do it over again after a month or two. I still think that if the potion was priced high enough, that people would be much more reluctant to try to abuse it, but I do also see where you are coming from.
 

Dr.Mcninja

Interesting scenario: 120s beating up greenhorns
Level 120 Greenhorns?

I guess it shouldn't reduce your duel level back to +0.
Just make it go down, by like, 2 levels each potion?
Or make it possible to let the level be reduced by losing duels.
(My own thread failed, So I'll be lurking here)
 

LLcoolG

Well this thread seems to have some very stubborn minds. The idea that Sag and Halo have put out is a good one and very relevant since playability should be important all around the game, yet most of the flack they receive is along the lines of, "You are being selfish because you want to play good and stuff but your idea doesn't benefit the way I play, so there!" :mad:

The whole concept isn't about destroying lower levels, it's about making the game playable. If there were a DL reducing potion it likely would be expensive, 1000 nuggets or so, and would likely only reduce the level to 50% between the DL and AL. So to drop from 300 DL at 120 AL would put the DL at 210 for 1000 nuggets, ok, that could be worth it. To lower it again would still cost 1000 nuggets, though the player would only drop to DL 165, they would probably find that to be worth it again. After that the player likely couldn't justify spending another 1000 nuggets so drop 22 levels. The players they could challenge would still be in their skill range. This would likely encourage lower players to buy the potion as well, like a lvl 60 for example who let their DL get out of hand and needs to get below these big guys that just dropped their own DL a whole lot.

Also the argument of levelling up fast? Go for it! Have a blast!..... Oh no, someone is levelling up fast! :rolleyes: Whatever....

The only way I could see this getting abused is by the player with deep pockets who willingly drops thousands of dollars on this game. Those players are buying nuggets and boosting skill points anyway and I'm sure the game creators love it. Actually, is that really abuse? No it isn't, because it was implemented by the game designers to be used as an asset, imagine that. It is just something that frustrates the average joe who has limited funds. One thing that would happen at least is that many average people might put a bit more money into the game than they normally would, which is a whole lot more than if they get frustrated and decide to quit.

Anyone who has played consistently enough to build up a high level player should be afforded some breaks. This concept is hardly different from the potions that reset AP and SP, and those were implemented by Inno without an 80% vote in these forums.

And a bit off topic; Hellstromm, please stop using the term Strawman. A Strawman if a fiction or fallacy and the simple fact that this topic is being discussed means the concern is a reality, to some at least. The truth is that most of the attacks against this idea are the Strawman arguments.
 
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Hellstromm

Hellstromm, please stop using the term Strawman. A Strawman if a fiction or fallacy and the simple fact that this topic is being discussed means the concern is a reality, to some at least.
LLcool, Sagaris did indeed present a fallacy, as he presented the purpose of DL incorrectly in argument. I corrected him and he conceded that point.

most of the flack they receive is along the lines of, "You are being selfish because your idea doesn't benefit the way I play, so there!" :mad:
Umm, no. The argument presented is that the idea serves their agenda but compromises the game for almost everyone else. It is an unsatisfactory solution to the issue of DL levels and alternatives were presented.

Also the argument of levelling up fast? Go for it! Have a blast!..... Oh no, someone is levelling up fast! :rolleyes: Whatever....
Actually, it is an issue that must be considered when making any proposal. But, just to make it clear, it is not merely the quick leveling, it is the quick leveling whilst maintaining a duel build and maintaining a very low DL level. That makes for a very imbalanced game design.
 

Sagaris

Well-Known Member
Umm, no. The argument presented is that the idea serves their agenda but compromises the game for almost everyone else. It is an unsatisfactory solution to the issue of DL levels and alternatives were presented.
Jakkals mentioned how he wouldnt vote for this unless it affected non-duelers then posted his example of him being chased around the place so i think you mean yes :D

the community would become a lot more active with this update but if inno want to lose more revenue and players by slowly killing every world then they're going the right way about it :mad:
 
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LLcoolG

LLcool, Sagaris did indeed present a fallacy, as he presented the purpose of DL incorrectly in argument. I corrected him and he conceded that point.
Maybe I missed something Sagaris wrote, so I'll refer back to the beginning, and the reality is that Halo started this thread with the concern that an excessively high duelling level is a hinderance to enjoying the game. From what I remember reading, Sag only seemed to support the original proposal. I know many players, including ones at lower levels who have restarted because the combination of their DL and the attacks they received removed much of the fun from the game for them. The proposition benefits those type of players also, since they won't have to start from the beginning while creating an avenue for revenue for Inno.

Ummm, no. The argument presented is that the idea serves their agenda but compromises the game for almost everyone else. It is an unsatisfactory solution to the issue of DL levels and alternatives were presented.
As I mentioned just above, there are many people who simply restart or quit because their duelling level became a hinderance to enjoying the game, the proposition is good for more than just those few at the high end.

Actually, it is an issue that must be considered when making any proposal. But, just to make it clear, it is not merely the quick leveling, it is the quick leveling whilst maintaining a duel build and maintaining a very low DL level. That makes for a very imbalanced game design.
If the player levels up so quickly then other players in any specific range will not have to put up with them for very long. Besides, as I mentioned before, with only a 50% reduction the duelling level would never reach the players Real Level, and it would become excessively expensive to implement unless the DL became ridiculously high.

Since these are the only items that were picked out of my prior post I'll assume that you considered everything else in it to be legit. Basically, that it would be an expensive option to drop DL and that Inno would welcome the extra revenue. Also that there is little difference between this type of proposal and a potion that resets AP and SP which is already in place.

To be clear though, I would not support a DL reset potion, only one that would reduce the DL by 50% and only at a high cost.
 
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PJMAX

The best way to fix the problem with the too high dueling level is, if you not only win, but lose exp too.

As your dueling level rise with wins, it should decrease with losses and you should lose experience too.
I like this idea. It would ensure people have to constantly work to stay on top of their duel rankings and maintain dueling level, or increase it.

Though susceptible to abuse as someone could reduce their DL by losing intentionally, and then power leveling by dueling higher DL guys.
A work around the abuse possiblitiy could be linking ap/sp used to DL? For eg A person with 300 DL against 200 DL gets a handicap of ap/sp in duels, instead of dueling xp which is there presently. It would make winning a bit difficult for higher DL players, and pure duelers would get diminishing returns in duel results from higher dueling level.

Some wont like to spoil their win record, but then you get a higher DL and handicap of skill in duels. If you still keep that winning streak, Well done! If you lose, you're not much of a fabled dueler :p
 

Numbnuts McCoy

I say yes HAL0 for a 1 time only potion . This way everyone is happy. You make a mistake you only make it once.
 

Sagaris

Well-Known Member
Here is the flaw in your statement ;)
i don't think we could ever present an idea that would please anyone but i must admit the idea of a 1 time potion is pretty good, no abuse except using it once and then scr*wing yourself over by trying to power lvl exp and never being able to do it again AND it lets some of us change from being duelers to other character builds :D
 

Hellstromm

To be quite honest, my issue with it is that's it's a poor patch. I would far prefer a direct address to the problem. DL design has been flawed since its inclusion in Beta. A half, whole, single or repeatable potion is a substandard patch (with problems associated) to a longstanding design flaw. How about coming out with a DL fix, or alternative, instead of this patch-with-inherent-problems.
 

Eli Makepeace

The DL formula is one of the few very things that has remained unchanged since the game's inception. Everyone knew the deal when they set out, or if they didn't they could have figured it in the first few weeks when it would be easy enough to start over. Instead, it looks like some people have just kept on digging themselves into a hole and are now requesting a ladder. No sympathy.
 

Judge R Bean

The DL formula is one of the few very things that has remained unchanged since the game's inception. Everyone knew the deal when they set out, or if they didn't they could have figured it in the first few weeks when it would be easy enough to start over. Instead, it looks like some people have just kept on digging themselves into a hole and are now requesting a ladder. No sympathy.
Just about spot on......
 

Sagaris

Well-Known Member
Just about spot on......
thing is i wouldnt use this if it required nuggets/bonds and the only other times i would use it is on briscoe where i am no longer a dueler but have a huge DL so have remained townless for about 6 months. i dont see why you are so against it when all it will do is bring people back to the older worlds and allow duelers to try different builds later on in-game, people speak about how duelers have chosen to have exp now duel with it, i dont see FF'ers being penalized and when the new worlds start i think you'll find the majority of players first to 120 are indeed questers and FF'ers so why are duelers being penalized for getting exp when these aren't?

i think i speak for quite a few people when i say i dont play the game now as i initially intended to back when i first started my account...