Remove health as a player controlled skill

[Bad Billy Jack]

Proposal
Remove health as a player controlled skill.

Current Workaround
None

Details
Inno gives us back our health SP to re-allocate. The new health formula is 30-40 health per level. Health gear still works, as do health buffs & quests that give health.

Abuse Prevention
None

Visual Aids
None

Problems with idea
Duelers crits can be maintained, since crits will be less. However, soldiers health bonus will have to be adjusted downwards a bit.

The Zero Mot dueler problem might get worse.

The AP Strength will be missing a SP. Inno can create a new job skill to replace it & jobs to use it.

Summary
Inno has changed the game with the addition of high level quests, crafting & daily tasks. Health has become so important in Fort fighting in particular, it is no longer a sport for everyone as Inno wanted. It is an elite sport requiring tanks. This is killing FFing in particular. FF tanks are one-dimensional & can not do hardly anything else in the game.

In the past, suggestions were to just nerf health in battles. This suggestion does much more. It returns SP to us so every player can now play the FULL game.

Just think what you could do with all those SP? You could do it all!

It would decrease duel KOs, so New Players would not give up on game & quit as quickly. This would keep them playing longer until they learned to deal with duelers. As for duelers, they get most of their results from winning, KOs are just a stat item.

Administration
Does this idea meet the Ideas Guidelines & Criteria? Yes
Does this idea appear on any of the Previously Suggested Ideas List? No

 

[DeletedUser]

You forgot to include adjusting the soldier bonus to apply to hp from levels as well. Another minor adjustment would have to be made to health gear, to have the gear give hp directly instead of a skill bonus.

 

[canufeelit]

i always disagree with nerfing cause i love to make a nice toon. but since we are looking at it coming anyway, i like this idea yeah. maybe this time we can make .net have an influence

moar please!

 

[DeletedUser]

Incidentally, the hp bonus IS the soldier's real fort bonus, not the leadership, which is insignificant. Having fixed hp by level does put them more in line with the other classes' fort bonuses and also removes the only significant class bonus to SP.

 

[DeletedUser563]

Why all this complication: just change this formula "For each skill point given to the skill health points you receive an additional 5 health points for your character."

So everyone will have 120 * 30 hp at level 120- 3600. the problem with my gear and existing skills i will be overpowering in atleast one world i can think of.

but it has my vote as I would be a much stronger player

 

[Bad Billy Jack]

Again, the problem with the game today is that we don't have enough LP to do the jobs required for high level quests, crafting & daily tasks; especially if we also want to fort fight.

I am giving players back tons of SP to allocate into jobs so we can once again play the FULL game.

Also, I do not consider this a nerf, cuz most players will end up with more heath.

My idea solves two problems. It fixes FFing & also allows everyone to play the FULL game.

Inno wanted FFing to be something for everyone. That has ended & I'm trying to get it back!~

 

[DeletedUser]

I have to disagree

Inno has changed the game with the addition of high level quests, crafting & daily tasks. Health has become so important in Fort fighting in particular, it is no longer a sport for everyone as Inno wanted. It is an elite sport requiring tanks. This is killing FFing in particular.

Yes it requires tanks, but anyone else can still play (once they stay behind the tanks).

I doubt it's killing fortfighting. Interminable bickering and politics kill fortfighting.

FF tanks are one-dimensional & can not do hardly anything else in the game.

Yet there are more and more tanks, they don't seem to mind, they love FFing and like being good at it. HP helps!

In the past, suggestions were to just nerf health in battles. This suggestion does much more. It returns SP to us so every player can now play the FULL game.

Just think what you could do with all those SP? You could do it all!

It was never possible to be good at everything, you have to make a choice, that's an intrinsic part of the game (or so I thought).


I worry that this proposal is just a charter for mediocrity that would turn Fortfights into random lotteries i.e. pointless.

 

[Bad Billy Jack]

Yes it requires tanks, but anyone else can still play (once they stay behind the tanks).

Hiders are one of the problems now.

I doubt it's killing fortfighting. Interminable bickering and politics kill fortfighting.

And what is this bickering about?

1) FFers don't have enough health.

2) Battles are not being filled. Why? Due to heath requirement to get reasonable results & players wanting to play other parts of the game, stop FFing.

Yet there are more and more tanks, they don't seem to mind, they love FFing and like being good at it. HP helps!

There are less & less tanks. Also, those that went tank are also noticing the problem that tanking is one-dimensional, so they open accounts on other worlds. Having too many worlds to play, they sign up for battles & attend only offline. Either that or they respec away from FFing.

~ ~ ~

There is another problem with FFing that I think is specific to .net. since it is English speaking with players from all over the world. We have Prime Time for battles which is Europe at night, working hours for Americans; basically a very small FFing window. This has led to FFers playing multiple worlds to have several battles at exactly the same time. This is not good at all. Lack of concentration on each battle results in serious problems. However, their attendance at battles is still required cuz without them, we don't fill. With my idea, these FFers could take days off if too many battles on too many worlds.

Also working Americans really cannot FF at all & turn to dueling as an alternative gameplay. As you know duelers mostly have very little health.

With more FFers, we could have battles also on American Night Shift, alllowing them to enjoy this part of the game.

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes it requires tanks, but anyone else can still play (once they stay behind the tanks).

They have to get ranked before they can hide.

It was never possible to be good at everything, you have to make a choice, that's an intrinsic part of the game (or so I thought).

Nope, you can't, but fort battles were designed to be democratic and allow anyone to participate and do well. Rising hp (now that people see how little the other skills matter) has made fort battles more elitist than ever. Elitism based on hp is unavoidable since it plays such a major role in winning.

 

[Bad Billy Jack]

They have to get ranked before they can hide.

LOL, you just made me laugh, Elmyr.

Right now, rankers have very little choice on who to rank. With the tiny number of FFers, we basically have to take anyone!

We even beg for offliners to show up!

<and still we cannot fill>

 

[DeletedUser]

LOL, you just made me laugh, Elmyr.

Right now, rankers have very little choice on who to rank. With the tiny number of FFers, we basically have to take anyone!

But what if everyone gets fed up goes offline when the battle starts? Is there going to be a battle? ( take this question as ironic, I am a lvl 44 and you expect me to ask this sort of question?)


I think HP is still very important. HP does not only work in fort battle, also in jobs. When the hurt range goes up to 579HP when I do transport ammunition, I was only too glad that I had 640 HP then, else, it would be back to bed with me.


Also it is important for duels. There was some guy with dueling level 59 and came to attack me. I lost around 300 hp, then I dueled her back and lost around 250 hp, she dueled me back and I lost around 400 hp, glad that I had 990 Hp in total.


To sum it up, hp can still be player control but, maybe it could have a capacity for every level, for example:

Lvl 1: Max 100
Lvl 2: Max 300
Lvl 3: Max 500
Lvl 4: Max 700
Lvl 30: max (I'm not doing maths.) 1000

 

[DeletedUser]

i agree with the idea, more than that, i'm begging for being implemented.
it would make the battles much better, it wolud help in duels, cause with the unreal golden weapons life is not enough to a fire duelist.
i'm saying that beacause I HAVE A FF FULL HP, and it's boring, i'm a vegetable in the world, i just take part in battles, just it, and a i have a duelist soldier and is funnier than the FF.
really inno this idea is fantastic, i could duel and go to battle also.
when you guys created the forts it was for everey body or just for tanks???

REALLY GUYS IN BRASIL, SOME BATTLES, JUST TANKS GO, DOES NOT HAVE PLACE TO OTHER TYPE OF PLAYERS, IN SMALL FORTS IS IS COMMOM. (IN BRASIL AT LEAST)

 

[DeletedUser34315]

This would remove the only reason to be a soldier. Plus, that would make duelers, myself included, very powerful, as we would have 3700 hp and still be able to put all of our AP and SP into dueling skills. That would completely remove melee dueling as a viable option, as the only real advantage we have now is more health than range duelers, while range has, typically, more aim and dodge.

 

[DeletedUser34315]

But what if everyone gets fed up goes offline when the battle starts? Is there going to be a battle?


I think HP is still very important. HP does not only work in fort battle, also in jobs. When the hurt range goes up to 579HP when I do transport ammunition, I was only too glad that I had 640 HP then, else, it would be back to bed with me.


Also it is important for duels. There was some guy with dueling level 59 and came to attack me. I lost around 300 hp, then I dueled her back and lost around 250 hp, she dueled me back and I lost around 400 hp, glad that I had 990 Hp in total.


To sum it up, hp can still be player control but, maybe it could have a capacity for every level, for example:

Lvl 1: Max 100
Lvl 2: Max 300
Lvl 3: Max 500
Lvl 4: Max 700
Lvl 30: max (I'm not doing maths.) 1000

If i understand you correctly, this would give soldiers a cap of 12,000 health, which is only slightly under what they can have already. Unless, you meant that it tapers off at higher levels, which gives us this:
Level 31: max (I'll do maths for you )1033
Level 32: max 1066
Level 33: max 1100
Every level is the current cap plus 1.33333333 etc.
That gives you a cap of 4066.66666666666etc. at level 120.
That is not fair to soldiers at all. It removes the only reason to be a soldier, which is HP!

 

[DeletedUser]

If i understand you correctly, this would give soldiers a cap of 12,000 health, which is only slightly under what they can have already. Unless, you meant that it tapers off at higher levels, which gives us this:
Level 31: max (I'll do maths for you )1033
Level 32: max 1066
Level 33: max 1100
Every level is the current cap plus 1.33333333 etc.
That gives you a cap of 4066.66666666666etc. at level 120.
That is not fair to soldiers at all. It removes the only reason to be a soldier, which is HP!

Ok, not necessarily maths. HP works out fine like normal, however at one level, there will be a HP capacity, which will be raised when a player advances a level. Soldiers can still have the same advantage.


But more likely, every soldier now is a tank. I have seen some people remove all their skills on other job SP and place all of them in HP and dueling SPs, which makes them undefeatable. Then everyone cowards behind the tank. So now these multi-hp tanks are spoiling the game and it always these tanks that are left over after every fort battle. So I half-agree on the idea.

(Did I say there wasn't going to be a battle?)

 

[DeletedUser33989]

Do not agree

BBJ is just one person's opinion,...I am a soldier tank FF and have finished all but one quest....so his assertion that soldiers can't do the quests is dead wrong...it takes fine tuning and use of the buffs available in the UPR shop...and may even take some minor reskilling....but it is not the "can't be done" situation portrayed.

On World 12 there is not much support for this initiative to make max HPs according to level...and yet it is being portrayed here as a given and salvation for us all. Yes a few FFs are not filled....but not the majority as expressed here. Most FFs in W12 do have full teams...I believe messing with the soldiers HP formula will adversely affect this.

This significantly effects the bonus soldiers receive and no other class....If this is to be forced upon us I would expect to be given the opportunity to reclass AND reskill completely at no cost to me...not just HPs. Otherwise leave it alone....

If we want to look at options, try looking at being able to do something with XP that are accumulating....perhaps a combination of max 5 additional levels a year (costing 100 K XP for the first and the rest at + 50 K XP each time), spending XP like cash at both the UPR shop and to buy rares and special items (through the UPR shop??)...again making them expensive (ie 500 K XP for a special item and 250 K for rare items - set to a price scale depending on the "value" of the items)....some thing to make XP useful I have over 1 Million XP points accumulated...but what incentive is there for accumulating them if you can't use them.

One person's opinion is not the way it has to be....

 

[DeletedUser16008]

To keep it short yes from me on the hp cap.

No to giving everyone a free respec, no one asked you to pile all your sp into hp.

Forts are badly attended for a few reasons, most of which has everything to do with tanks ruining it for the average normal player and making the dueler class the only worth while fort class other than the soldier for hp.

If you deal with the hp then you have to deal with the dueler bonus, I for one am sick of duelers getting top damage when half of them don't even know how to move properly.

And before anyone moans about having all sp on health and not being able to do any jobs etc how the heck do you think those that duel feel having to use all our sp on aim and dodge ? also useless.

Nerf the hp before forts die out completely

 

[DeletedUser31422]

I personally don't agree, I like being able to skill however I want, I like being almost pure hp and mainly fort fighting. That is my choice and I enjoy it, there is no cap on aim/dodge for duelers, or a cap on other skills for questers/traders.

Another problem would be if you have a hp cap of 3k or 4k, which to have the skills to "do everything" I don't see it being much over that, then who takes point? Even in a small it would be easy for the attack to move all to one corner and just insta-kill anyone on the nearest point.

Also seems like the current format is much better for Inno looking at it from their side. Lots of people are buying nuggets to pay for re-skill potions when they want to do someting different.

If your battles aren't filling then how is high hp the problem, seems like if they don't fill anyone with any hp or any level can get in, so I don't agree with it being elitist.

 

[DeletedUser]

Everyone is using the word "cap". It's not a cap, soft or hard, it's flat hp per level. It's really unlike any other skill and being able to raise it is unrealistic. Practice can improve your aim, or your dodging, or any other skill, but no amount of training is going to let you get shot 40 times.

 

[DeletedUser]

Alright then, I don't suppose anyone is going to become ironman and take 32 shots. Yes from me on the idea.