Religion now holds humanity back

DeletedUser16008

In the very distant past religion had a positive role partly in shaping how people interacted, in history it was responsible for the furtherment of human knowledge. Islam was the force that discovered the concept of zero for example and the early sciences were largely discovered by the religious cast, the disconnect seems to have happened when those same groups became corrupted with the power knowledge brings. The benefits of a structure of some kind in a group allowed a society to form and thereafter grow, whether religion had anything to do with that positively or not is like everything else to do with religion, debatable.

In the past the church has completely interfered and stunted scientific advancement, such as when Copernicus realised that the earth probably was not at the centre of the solar system, such as had been taught before - he had to keep the thoughts to himself until he was very old for fear of how the church would punish him, 50 years lost and for what ?

Galileo attempted to convince the church that they were wrong, and he was found guilty of heresy, his book was banned, he was forced to claim that he was wrong, and he was placed under house arrest for the rest of his life. How much progress did humanity lose there ?

These are just two examples in history of time wasted and progress stunted.

Religion is now holding us back, for example, 50% of america do not believe the theory of evolution, and of the half that do, 30% believe that it was initiated by God - how can one of, if not the, most influential country in the world, have half its population believe the words of a book written thousands of years ago over scientific theory based on facts and evidence and really call ourselves an intelligent evolved species ?

Although religion has not stated lately that is is directly against scientific advancement anymore, it has a lot of indirect effects on it - one of the most prudent would be in Africa, where the Pope, and many other visiting christians have gone around telling the inhabitants not to use condoms because they are frowned upon by jesus or some nonsense. They are taking advantage of the fact that in Africa, many are religious and not as well educated so defer to religion to tell them whats best.Telling these people not to use condoms has lead to many more deaths from HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases than there needed to be, has made it a lot more difficult to stifle the diseases and has made that situation far worse than it need have been.

I would agree that we should be very careful about how we go about things like STEM cell research in terms of correcting mistakes in our species, but these are ethical arguments, I think would take place whether there was a church or not, and that these ethical concerns come not from the church, but rather just from our common sense and growing intelligence as a species.

On the whole the last thousand or so years has held terrific advancement for humanity, we would probably be much further along without religions interference.

Had religion not emerged or been finally thrown out once we understood certain sciences I think the world would be far cleaner, safer and humanity far more humane, have medicine far more advanced, probably already have free energy and possibly be among the stars. Of course I cannot prove this but can prove that religion has been holding humanity back. It stands to reason it will continue to do so.

In fact its hard to find anything religion has had a positive effect on the whole towards the advancement of humanity. It belongs on the scrap heap of history and should get out of the way of human evolution and progress. Both on a scientific and personal level.

The question is do you think Religion is holding humanity back and so how ? if not what does it bring to the table for our continued progress ?
 

DeletedUser

I would think it's more of the interpretation and application of religious texts that hold back humanity, as well as conflicts over interpretation.
 

DeletedUser

Islam was the force that discovered the concept of zero for example
Incorrect, it was first established "as a zero" in India around 4 B.C., but was represented as three hooks in Mesopotamia as early as 2000 B.C.

and the early sciences were largely discovered by the religious cast
Also incorrect, they were discovered by philosophers and early scientists, both of which were in contention with religious dogma even in 300 B.C. and before.

Busy now, will attempt to participate more at a later time.
 

DeletedUser16008

Even today, the Arabs call the numerals they use 'Rakam Al-Hind' or the Hindu numeral system, they adopted it and modified them.The Hindu-Arabic numerals and the positional number system were introduced around 500 AD, and in 825 AD by a Persian scientist, al-Khwārizmī, in his book on arithmetic. This book synthesized Greek and Hindu knowledge and also contained his own fundamental contribution to mathematics and science including an explanation of the use of zero. . . Its the system we still use today whereas the others never bridged the gap or were adopted and yes im being kind here and attributing it to a religious scientist.

Discovered is the wrong word aye, responsible for and driven by would have been better. Astrology, Medical surgery, Drugs, Alchemy etc to name a few in pre main faith modern religions ie Pagan and prior... certainly early shamen, priests, druids etc would have been the ones trying to understand the afterlife health and ever greater ways of improving peoples chances driving early science in its own kooky way. Again im being kind here in affording religion the credit...however going forward....
 
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DeletedUser17143

I think religion holds us back. Religion never wants to move forward. It is a complacency in its self that manifests its self in the form of self importance. Religion would have us believe that we were put in the universe for some divine purpose. It would have people believe that we are all that matter in this universe because we are here by gods will so we will always be safe as he will protect those who follow him. Science on the other hand shows us that we are tiny and insignificant. We have no purpose. We just exist. And that one day we will all become extinct, and the universe won't even pause to mourn our passing. There is nothing before we are born, and there is nothing when we die. And religion seems to have a problem with that. I don't. I will proudly admit that I am an Atheist. I believe in no god, and I am better for it. I'm fine with just existing. I'm not scared of dying either. But some people are not. So, is religion holding us back? Yes.

Unfortunately we can't get rid of religion just yet. There are so many people on this planet that believe in god that it would be impractical to remove it now. I hope that one day there will be no religion. That we won't need it. But for now, that is not the case. Unfortunately there are too many idiots in society for us to live without some Boogeyman story to control them. And that is all it is. A boogeyman theory. It is a story created to give people something to fear from stepping out of line in life. Much like the boogeyman story stops children from getting out of bed and wondering off in the night. Its a clever story made up to control the minds of those who cannot use any form of intelligence to make their own decisions. And now it holds our whole planet in fear of what will happen if we do something against gods will. It warns us against invoking the wrath of god. And people believe it. Even though there is no evidence to support the accuracy of religion. Not even a shred. Just an argument based on "Well you can't prove he is not real." which is a ridiculous argument. In all honesty I think the world would be better off without religion now. We have outgrown it. But it will need to be a slow and steady move to everyone leaving religion behind, rather than some people forcing everyone to leave it. But that seems to be happening around the world any at the moment. So hopefully in the next century it will happen. If we're still here.
 

DeletedUser

Ah yes, that's quite a magnificent defense coming from you.....trying to force religion down peoples' throats just makes things worse. Personally, I would be ok with religion if every adherent were more like Laserstar i.e., not trying to ram things down peoples' throats.
 

DeletedUser30834

Then come up with a counter that proves otherwise or supports it rather than 4 words that convinces no one of anything.
I do not need to counter almost incoherent babble that is flying from a false and misleading sentiment from the start. It's just like everything else in life, garbage in and garbage out.

Ah yes, that's quite a magnificent defense coming from you.....trying to force religion down peoples' throats just makes things worse. Personally, I would be ok with religion if every adherent were more like Laserstar i.e., not trying to ram things down peoples' throats.
I do not know what you are talking about. I've never seen anyone on these forums ram religion down anyone's throat. I've seen them correct you and a few others about their religion when statements were made and things were taken out of context or they became attacked based around their religious beliefs.

Frankly, I'm sort of surprised that inno games is allowing all these religious attack threads and comments like yidboi, your, and hellstrom's hate speech remain. Being a company located in Germany where the Free Speech laws and protections stop at the point of offending someone else' fundamental right(according to their law), they are open to some severely complicated legal issues and possibly defamation lawsuits directly according to their hate speech laws/rules.

But you guys go ahead and keep bringing these gay and religion bashing threads up so you can express your hate speech however you want. we will just wait and see if anything ever happens.
 

DeletedUser

I was under the impression it was more correcting the mindset of religious sheeple....though it seems to no avail....
 

DeletedUser30834

And once again, you were wrong.. No surprise there.

I was under the impression it was more correcting the mindset of religious sheeple....though it seems to no avail....
And here you are doing it again trying to use derogatory and inflammatory names associated to religious people in an attempt to degrade them. You are no different then the white supremacist calling a black man a spook or porch monkey.
 
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DeletedUser

Do you see anywhere that I claimed all religious people were sheeple? I don't :laugh:
 

DeletedUser30834

Well, we could chalk it up to English not being your first language and you having little clue of the rules of the language or how communications presented in certain ways convey certain meanings. But I think that would be a lie as in so many other things on this board.

Do you see anywhere that I claimed all religious people were sheeple? I don't :laugh:
BTW, you proved my point in your reply by pointing to what you thought was the subject of my post. I never identified it, but you did knowing how you intended to use it. This makes your post attempting to dissolve your connection to accused wrong doing a lie right off the bat.
 

DeletedUser16008

I do not need to counter almost incoherent babble that is flying from a false and misleading sentiment from the start. It's just like everything else in life, garbage in and garbage out.

Care to back up your comments with any proof ? prove its false, prove its misleading with some coherent evidence, babbling is what you are doing whilst bringing nothing to the table of note.

I do not know what you are talking about. I've never seen anyone on these forums ram religion down anyone's throat. I've seen them correct you and a few others about their religion when statements were made and things were taken out of context or they became attacked based around their religious beliefs.

Then you need to read more of the forum.

Frankly, I'm sort of surprised that inno games is allowing all these religious attack threads and comments like yidboi, your, and hellstrom's hate speech remain. Being a company located in Germany where the Free Speech laws and protections stop at the point of offending someone else' fundamental right(according to their law), they are open to some severely complicated legal issues and possibly defamation lawsuits directly according to their hate speech laws/rules.

This is D&D and is employing the concept of Free Speech, look it up in the dictionary :)

But you guys go ahead and keep bringing these gay and religion bashing threads up so you can express your hate speech however you want. we will just wait and see if anything ever happens.

Unfortunately for you we are not living in the times of being prosecuted for heresy, we have free speech :p

There is no hate here, just opinions on given topics ...No one has started a gay bashing thread at all, not even willy. On the contrary the posts have mostly all been in support other than the uber religious idea that god said blah blah. Religion bashing as you put it is merely discussing an ideal in society or a belief, you cannot stop people from having or expressing a different opinion of an idea or mantra. It is no different than discussing or bashing democracy, communism, socialism, Paganism etc, it is certainly not personal unless you decide to be offended but then again that can be about anything at all and being offended is a choice... look both up in the dictionary for the meaning of .... There are many things that can offend but as far as I know mans laws do no longer include difference of opinion on religion. If they did then the followers of the 3 main ones going at each other would fill the courts for hundreds of years before any unbelievers had their day in court. :laugh:

Many of these are topics that are typically discussed in schools, colleges, universities, debates and research fields all the time. Simply because you do not like them being discussed or explored is irrelevant and crying about it by talking about lawyers etc is frankly childish and laughable.

I'll ask you once again to keep it on the topic being discussed and refrain from just trolling comments or baiting other posters.

You too rice, thanks
 

DeletedUser30834

Free Speech, look it up in the dictionary :)
Dictionary concepts do not trump local laws- perhaps you should look them up?



Unfortunately for you we are not living in the times of being prosecuted for heresy, we have free speech :p

There is no hate here, just opinions on given topics ...No one has started a gay bashing thread at all, not even willy. On the contrary the posts have mostly all been in support other than the uber religious idea that god said blah blah. Religion bashing as you put it is merely discussing an ideal in society or a belief, you cannot stop people from having or expressing a different opinion of an idea or mantra. It is no different than discussing or bashing democracy, communism, socialism, Paganism etc, it is certainly not personal unless you decide to be offended but then again that can be about anything at all and being offended is a choice... look both up in the dictionary for the meaning of .... There are many things that can offend but as far as I know mans laws do no longer include difference of opinion on religion. If they did then the followers of the 3 main ones going at each other would fill the courts for hundreds of years before any unbelievers had their day in court. :laugh:
No, its hate speech. If it was a discussion there wouldn't be slurs and derogatory terms thrown out attempting to degrade everyone remotely associated with it. It was really bad a couple of threads ago and since then, there has been thread after thread attempting to drive it down and bash them.

Many of these are topics that are typically discussed in schools, colleges, universities, debates and research fields all the time. Simply because you do not like them being discussed or explored is irrelevant and crying about it by talking about lawyers etc is frankly childish and laughable.
Yes, they are discussed in schools, but the topics aren't the problem, it's the hate speech within them that is. I made my point clear on that with rice farmers comment so please stop trying to pretend I'm talking about something else.

I'll ask you once again to keep it on the topic being discussed and refrain from just trolling comments or baiting other posters.
And I will ask you to moderate the hate speech out or stop starting threads just so it can be thrown about. I haven't seen anyone calling gays names. I haven't seen anyone equate the actions of one homosexual with the actions of all of them. But I have seen incorrect and outright lies made (you made one in your opening post) about religions, all sorts of name calling of religions and people, your call to disban or disallow religion in general and so on.

So you tell me, how is it a proper discussion by calling a group of people sheeple or the boogerman? How is completely misrepresenting the pope's comment on condoms a proper discussion?
 
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DeletedUser1121

Frankly, I'm sort of surprised that inno games is allowing all these religious attack threads and comments like yidboi, your, and hellstrom's hate speech remain. Being a company located in Germany where the Free Speech laws and protections stop at the point of offending someone else' fundamental right(according to their law), they are open to some severely complicated legal issues and possibly defamation lawsuits directly according to their hate speech laws/rules.

But you guys go ahead and keep bringing these gay and religion bashing threads up so you can express your hate speech however you want. we will just wait and see if anything ever happens.

If you have issues with posts that are illegal in your point of view, please report them.

The things you see as religious attacks are part of an open discussion in which people give their opinion. The fact that you do not share these opinions does not make them attacks on a religion and even if they were, if they stay within the boundaries of an opinion, the ones giving them is entitled to share his point of view. Again, if you feel that something is braking a law, please let us know by reporting the issue and the law it might break so we can take appropriate actions. If they do not brake any rules, the posts will stay up. And if you can't handle or accept this, i would suggest not joining that particular discussion anymore.

This forum is being constantly monitored by multiple moderators and checked by InnoGames employees from time to time to ensure no laws or rules are broken.


Now please get this back on topic or this thread will be closed.
 
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DeletedUser

I don't believe religion has that much relevance to the advancement or r*tardation of humanity. Most Catholics quietly disregard their church's contraceptive advice, for instance. Most religions are just belief-groups that enable people to bond with similar individuals. If religion went, then people would just come up with substitutes. It's not as if getting rid of all the priests and mullahs would suddenly make everyone smarter. Like Marmite, you may love it or hate it, and some extremist behaviour can attract attention, but I suspect the sad truth is that religion is pretty much irrelevant to our society today.
@Sumdumass - repeating homophobic/racist epithets, even in the context of saying you don't use them, is not cool and may even land you in trouble. If you thought this was a troll thread, then the sane thing to do would not to get involved rather than take the bait. By reacting, you play the troll's game.

{Edit - I see Desi posted before I refreshed, dealing with this. Btw Desi, it's "break" not "brake"in this context.}
 
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Harsha..

Well-Known Member
In the context of humanity, religion is inevitable. People need to look up to a set of principles to help them move on in life. In normal cases, religion's principles were fair, and contributed to keeping society at peace with itself. Christianity, Hinduism, Islam texts ask people to maintain peace with all, serve the poor and refrain from stealing. A majority of devotees follow these, its only a radical minority who resort to voilence

Yes, religion got into science's way over the ages, but this resistance has gone down with time, as our views have become more moderate. There was little opposition when Einstein proposed his laws. Hawking wasn't stopped from publishing his book even through it argued against the existence of a god. I also haven't heard of religious fanatics opposing big science projects like the CERN accelerator

In general, science and religion are just extreme opposites. Science at its extreme is comprised of cold logic, which is just as terrifying as religious extremism. There was another thread on this forum, where we read about scientists saying killing newborns should be allowed. That was just a classic example, animals - like whales are killed frequently for the sake of science

So, for a successful society, both religion and science have to co-exist and be practiced in moderation
 

DeletedUser

In the context of humanity, religion is inevitable.
Is there any other context featuring religion, though?
Science at its extreme is comprised of cold logic, which is just as terrifying as religious extremism.
"Cold logic"? What about "cool reason"?
What is "extreme" science anyway? Measuring to an order of magnitude more than necessary? Writing up your experimental results with a nipple-clamp on? Science is concerned with understanding observable nature - I don't think you can say this comes in moderate or extreme forms.
There was another thread on this forum, where we read about scientists saying killing newborns should be allowed.
Scientists are not science. They go to the toilet and have prejudices just like everybody else, but that doesn't make either "science". Scientists developed the nuclear bomb, but politicians dropped it. Science per se never advocates any course of action - it just points out the physical consequences of the choice.
That was just a classic example, animals - like whales are killed frequently for the sake of science
Whales are not killed for science - the Japanese kill them for sushi but pretend that it's for, ahem, research. Unfortunately, many animals are killed in laboratories - not usually for science but for pharmaceutical profits, and probably fewer than we kill to feel overfed at Christmas.
So, for a successful society, both religion and science have to co-exist and be practiced in moderation
That's quite a far-reaching conclusion to base on what I can only call, "zero evidence".
 

DeletedUser

I do find it interesting to note that some scientists are religious and there's no reason to believe that their work is sub-standard to non-religious scientists
I guess it's all kinda the whole "God made evolution" thing.
 

DeletedUser30834

Contrary to popular belief among some atheist, science and religion are not at odds in 99% or better of all aspects of the respective fields concern. Even more interestingly, of those conflicting portions, only a small portion of them are in conflict too.

Something else that people tend to ignore is the fact that humans are perfectly able to compartmentalize conflicting instructions. Take driving an automatic verses a standard transmission vehicle for instance. Most people who do both do so without ever thinking about it as it has become sort of automatic to them depending on what is needed. We see this behavior in small children too. They are just as adept in playing games on several different consoles/computers/devices that use different control configurations for much of the same types of controls in the different games. I've seen children as young as 6 years old play Halo on the computer just as easily as on the Xbox and switch between a game boy and a console with similar titles and genres without much effort.

There is no real reason to believe any scientist or religious person could not do the same for any given task that may conflict. Devout religious fanatics might refrain from certain aspects of science or other jobs but the ones in conflict are very rare in reality. The entire science verses religious argument seems to be a fraud based on irrational fears and misunderstandings anyways. It is even presented in the start of this thread.
 

DeletedUser16008

I didn't say they are at odds 99% of the time or even close, compartmentalising we do well but in science its about facts and repeatable findings and does not tend to gel well with strict verse or interpretable but unprovable theory.

I can see a world getting along and progressing perfectly well without religion but cannot see the same without science.

What does it ( religion ) bring to the table for our continued progress ?
 
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