R.I.P Dueling!!!

[DeletedUser13388]

True.Dueling is getting boring.
Every new update is in help to the forters and questers, but not the duelers.
Inno should add something like town robbery, bank robbery and so on, something that will bring the old excitement of dueling or will bring the need of duelers.
For example, an update where you can organize a raid vs some town and empty % of its town treasury will be cool.Then every town, especially fort fighting town, will need decent sheriff and duelers to protect them.
For sure we need something new in the dueling area.

 

[DeletedUser31397]

also addition to Judge's comment. every build can beat NPC. not every NPC but it is easy to find 3 that can be EASILY beaten.

No, I tried with a few builds, but when every NPC has shiny weapon it's hard, you better try it before you tell it's not.

You miss the point entirely.

This is The West, im sorry but no matter what anyone says this game WAS based on and around dueling... thats why its called the west and theres little pics of people holding guns etc ... Hulis complaint is simple.

Inno have neglected or worse, lately ruined dueling as an integral part of the game. There is no getting away from it or any point in denying it. A very very high % of dueling based players have either quit or reduced their dueling and activity.

Nearly if not all the top ranked and the best duelers across .net and i suspect other servers being similar say the same thing .... dueling has become boring, predictable, luck based and pointless.... the posts and people voting by leaving and dumping accounts say it all.

You obviously don't duel in the main therefore you have no clue what Huli and others are saying.

As for your comment on the daily quests being easy again you don't have a clue what your talking about ..... if your a dueler the two MAIN skills are Aim and Dodge NEITHER helps on jobs. Im not complaining about it just stating a fact.

The very fact you consider NPC hard to beat shows you don't and arnt a dueler, i suggest you confine your posts to a thread you may have a clue about because dueling sure isnt one of them.

In the main i see it like this.... duelers and dueling MADE this game popular, we have been betrayed and Inno will pay the price for that.... Some of us have been warning of the problem for a long time, will and are now being proved correct. It gives me no pleasure saying so but as I said a year or more ago Inno have and are continuing to kill the golden goose

Having killed off dueling they have killed the very thing that this game was based around. Ergo Inno have destroyed The West main template for the player base and along with it the heart and soul of the game.

Ultimately their revenue stream will dry up and die along with it.

Yes, I agree Vic, Innos are killing the golden goose. Now you can buy many things for nuggets, but Inno games is a company, not some cash-hating organization.

I am pure dueler on some worlds, so I have a clue, please I wouldn't be replying to this thread if I don't.

Ok again, about the daily tasks, I have clue of what I'm talking about. Please tell me, do duelers get AP when they level up?? I belive that you get one point in 5 skills when you distribute AP don't you?? I can solve more then 4 repetable quests every day if I want to. Get yourself some gear for jobs, not everything is always smooth.

NPC duels can be hard especially when they have shiny guns, but beacuse you don't know that, I assume that you have no clue about job builds. I play 6 worlds and every character has different build, so I see every point of view about changes in the game.

And what actually happened here is that duelers aren't good for everything now, the balance is made.

 

[DeletedUser]

No, I tried with a few builds, but when every NPC has shiny weapon it's hard, you better try it before you tell it's not.

I'm sorry, but you have just proven to everyone that you don't know much about NPC duelling.
Weapons that NPCs carry have absolutely nothing with beating them.
I have 0 mobility and 0 dodging points, only bonus from items and i can completely dodge all shots from any NPC that have about 20% less aim then my dodge. And out of 5 available NPCs, at least 3 have a way lower aim then my 40-50 dodge (items bonus only). And i'm talking about level 120 character.
I don't even look at their weapons, just their aiming and sometimes dodge (if more then 200 i could have problem hitting them aswell). Nothing else matters: resistance, tactics... just compare your dodge to their aim.

 

[DeletedUser31397]

I'm sorry, check how much damage rusty muzzle loader does and how much Wyatt Earps buntline, and then reply again. I didn't say that you can't beat NPC with shiny gun, I said It's hard..

 

[DeletedUser16008]

No, I tried with a few builds, but when every NPC has shiny weapon it's hard, you better try it before you tell it's not.

Yes, I agree Vic, Innos are killing the golden goose. Now you can buy many things for nuggets, but Inno games is a company, not some cash-hating organization.

I am pure dueler on some worlds, so I have a clue, please I wouldn't be replying to this thread if I don't.

Ok again, about the daily tasks, I have clue of what I'm talking about. Please tell me, do duelers get AP when they level up?? I belive that you get one point in 5 skills when you distribute AP don't you?? I can solve more then 4 repetable quests every day if I want to. Get yourself some gear for jobs, not everything is always smooth.

NPC duels can be hard especially when they have shiny guns, but beacuse you don't know that, I assume that you have no clue about job builds. I play 6 worlds and every character has different build, so I see every point of view about changes in the game.

And what actually happened here is that duelers aren't good for everything now, the balance is made.

Ahh BA, there are duelers and then there are Duelers. As a pure Dueler on most worlds I can assure you that in order to be competitive at the highest level only Aim and Dodge matter and as such you will forgo many jobs on the daily tasks. However I am not concerned with jobs, I have no need for them so im not complaining about Job tasks.

Fafer is is correct in the analysis of NPC dueling I don't need to repeat his explanation.

What you seem to have a problem grasping is good duelers were never any good at doing anything else in the first place, now we are also reduced to mainly one type of build and a lucky duel when fighting each other ... where there was many, now there are few .. where there was some strategy and thought now there is none ...... is that clear enough for you ?

 

[DeletedUser31397]

aahh!! you just won't understand that you have everything needed in this game as a dueler.. you can do some daily quests you can duel you can level up quicker then a jobber or fort fighter you can have more cash. yes, innos made a mistake with few new updates but that doesn't prove me wrong. yes worlds will die off, that's what happens, huge empires in RL were small then big then huge then they fall apart. that's what happens with this game as well, is that clear enough for you??

 

[DeletedUser16008]

aahh!! you just won't understand that you have everything needed in this game as a dueler.. you can do some daily quests you can duel you can level up quicker then a jobber or fort fighter you can have more cash. yes, innos made a mistake with few new updates but that doesn't prove me wrong. yes worlds will die off, that's what happens, huge empires in RL were small then big then huge then they fall apart. that's what happens with this game as well, is that clear enough for you??

Meh No you don't get it at all so there's no point trying to explain further and your taking it more off topic with every post ... WE DON'T CARE ABOUT QUESTS OR JOBS read the thread title and posts again you noob and when you understand dueling properly maybe just maybe youll have a clue ... unfortunately thats not at the moment.

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm sorry, check how much damage rusty muzzle loader does and how much Wyatt Earps buntline, and then reply again. I didn't say that you can't beat NPC with shiny gun, I said It's hard..

lol, you are not trying to understand, do you?
npc can have a rocket laucher, i don't care, cause it NEVER hits me.
with just 40-50 dodging you can dodge ALL shots from lots npcs and kick him with pillow. easy win.

 

[DeletedUser2708]

Girls, girls; you're BOTH pretty....

Got a couple of real special snowflakes dueling it out over dueling, don't we...?

IMHO, I can't understand how anyone can say that dueling is the main thing in the game. It's like saying the game is centered around fort fighting. Neither is true. Dueling is a big part of the game, yes -- and even bigger than fort battles -- because even if you do not ever initiate a duel, unless you are a greenhorn (or refuse to do certain quests) dueling will still have an effect on your game. But the game is mainly a pseudo-RPG sim, open to a variety of playstyles, depending on what you want to do.

And pure duelers do not need to do the job dailies for bonds each day, since two - TWO - of the four (4) requirements are all about duels. You also only need to do three (3) out of four (4) to fulfill the daily requirement, and as far as I know duelers have not had both of their arms amputated and cannot craft. Plus duelers also have advantages in fort fights, which also grant bonds.

However, I do cede the point that dueling has become less tactical and less strategic, and is now more about luck than ever, and thus less interesting. OTOH the changes have worked in favor of those of us who've never been very good at it.

Now pardon me while I go put on my asbestos suit....

 

[DeletedUser]

And pure duelers do not need to do the job dailies for bonds each day, since two - TWO - of the four (4) requirements are all about duels..

And the noobs still - STILL - don't get it. The 2 duels in the dailies ARE completely irrelevant. Every single player in the west gets those 2 dailies as a given YOU DO NOT HAVE TO WIN, just do the duels, you get the bonds, it's a nothing, pointless, not one single person in the game cannot get those, they are free to all players - FREE TO ALL PLAYERS

 

[DeletedUser16008]

Thank you JRB for making the obvious so..... well obvious really

No one here has said dueling is the main thing only that the game was and is based around it. That seems to be something that people who don't duel as their reason for playing fail to grasp or care about .... but you will..... oh you will.

Nor is this about bonds or money or jobs nor quests or even forts none of the afore mentioned skilled players can duel their way out of a wet paper bag so cannot begin to understand the ramifications ruining dueling will bring.

It is about the one thing a large but rapidly diminishing portion of players played this game for.... dueling other duelers.... the variety and fun it used to bring, now a shadow of its former glory and a pointless, boring part of the game

No matter, whatever those that do not understand say it will affect you all when the duelers have had enough and gone. Dueling is the glue that has held it all together and forts will not be enough on its own and as for the rest of the game ? well maybe its progress and youll start building skyscrapers (churches ), a las vegas in every county, factories and something called the automobile to get about on. Somehow though i personally think itll all be over in the not too distant future and people will drift away in greater numbers once the duelers have stopped bothering. They are already, take a look around you if you don't believe me.

The shame of it is there was a simple solution yet inno are either too dumb or simply just dont care to do anything about it. It's there in your face no less a game killer than opening too many worlds was. They didnt listen then and i doubt they will listen now.

Mark my words no matter what your play style once the duelers stop bothering your game is also finished.

 

[DeletedUser14793]

People dont realize that most of the duelers are a closeknit community. Once one leaves many of his friends follow and it just snowballs from there. Many if not most of the best towns and alliances are ran by longtime duelers, once they leave what will you have? Alot of lvl 400 churches.

 

[DeletedUser2708]

Calling people names and saying they "just don't get it" just because they don't totally agree with you isn't going to make your arguments any more compelling. You can disagree with someone without being disrespectful.

 

[HelenBack]

Recap:
- All 4 daily bond tasks are available to all players.
- - ALL players can easily do the "NPC duels" and the "Duel vs Player" tasks... Win or lose. (even my non-fighting builds can do these tasks)
- - The Crafting task can only be done by those who work various jobs to get the materials needed or pay 10-100x the price for the items on the Market.
- - The 4 "Daily Quests" task... lol... I'm lucky to be able to have the crafted item for the Apprentice option... As for the other quests... 4 out of 5 times I can't do ANY of them. This is just on my dueler or even dueler/fort-fighter builds.

I'm currently on all 15 .net worlds plus Beta... Due to various reasons (including the decline in the population in older worlds and the fact that dueling just isn't what it used to be) I'll be leaving some worlds. I've waited a while for them to merge the worlds, but it just doesn't seem to be happening.

I think the latest update with the new "Shop"... shows EXACTLY where Inno is taking this game... Take a look at the Buffs... aside from a few Energy/HP/LP buffs (useful for anyone)... the majority is fort fighting buffs. Also, being able to buy these Buffs and Chests with Nuggets (aka RL cash) just widens the ever-increasing gap between the "haves" and the "have-nots". BTW, I have purchased nuggets in the past... I stopped that when they added the ability to purchase skills to w11 and w12 (after both were already open). The ability to buy skills in itself was bad enough... but to add it to worlds that already existed did not set well with me (or others for that matter).

When I first joined this game... There were no forts. Just building, questing and dueling. I still remember the first few battles where the timer counted down... and half the people jumped out of the fort. (one way to figure out what those arrows really did... ) Dueling is the foundation that this game was built on... Not forts. I'm not saying that forts aren't important... They do add more variety to the game and attract different players. But all these updates have been consistently punishing the real duelers and putting the fort fighters on pedestals.

I agree with the real duelers who have posted in this thread... If dueling dies out... there will be a massive decrease in population in ALL worlds. Duelers are a close-knit community.. I know many that have said... "if you go, I go". Now if they also have someone else that tells them "if you go, I go"... and so on... the chain reaction will lead to a mass exodus.

Most of those duelers have been around since the early years... pre-forts. They've been through various changes within the West... They know what they are talking about. It's time for Inno to listen to their loyal customer base who may even know the actual game-play better than Inno does.
:whistle:

 

[DeletedUser]

Meh, I gotta say something here.

I notice a lot of people saying dueling is getting boring. Well, dueling has ALWAYS been boring. What makes dueling fun is the interaction, duel wars, intrigue and attitudes of the opponents. If you duel people and they respond with, "ya dang varmint, I'll git yer dang hide the next time!" you're going to be motivated to keep dueling. But if you duel people and they respond with, "I hate dueling now, dueling is boring," that's a catchy little negative mentality.

It's not merely the game, it's what you do with it. If the group mentality is to hate, then there's gonna be a lynching.

 

[DeletedUser13388]

Meh, I gotta say something here.

I notice a lot of people saying dueling is getting boring. Well, dueling has ALWAYS been boring. What makes dueling fun is the interaction, duel wars, intrigue and attitudes of the opponents. If you duel people and they respond with, "ya dang varmint, I'll git yer dang hide the next time!" you're going to be motivated to keep dueling. But if you duel people and they respond with, "I hate dueling now, dueling is boring," that's a catchy little negative mentality.

It's not merely the game, it's what you do with it. If the group mentality is to hate, then there's gonna be a lynching.

As Helen said, before you could be either quester or either dueler and in some point of the game every builder or quester was reskilling in dueler.The good old days, town raids, camps, nagging alot of enemies.

Then the forts came.
Nothing wrong with that.But since then until now, every update is fort related.At first it was only forts.Then the chests came out.Then the fastest way to level up became the fort fights, because half of the people are getting 1500 exp every fort battle, not as it was before when only few could do that(i think Elmyr gained lvl 99 1-st with non premium account and fort fighting only, on w11).Then the shineys showed up and with every update more and more shiny items and the only way to get them is with fort fighting.Now the bonds.The best way to gain bonds is again with fort fights.

And what about dueling ? For all that time Inno changed the dueling formula 2-3 times.

Tell me Hell, isnt it boring?

I have played 10 worlds in 9 of them i am pure dueler and in 3-4 of them i was dueler and forter at the same time.The only world i am not dueler is world 14, but probably i will respecc soon.So from my experience i will tell you that w10 was the last world where the dueling was the main part of the game and the dueling was fun.Every world after that is all about forts.Many and i mean many of the old duelers are now forters in most of the worlds.And who can blame them, after every update brings many new things in the fort fighting area, but nothing new in the dueling area.

 

[DeletedUser31397]

Hey here is a simple solution. Switch to fort fighter or something else beacuse dueling isn't popular anymore, or better yet, quit! It's not you who will loose money beacuse of lack of the players but Innos. You all know that we can discuss this untill 2025. but nothing is going to change. It might only get worse.

Calling people names and saying they "just don't get it" just because they don't totally agree with you isn't going to make your arguments any more compelling. You can disagree with someone without being disrespectful.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[DeletedUser16008]

Meh, I gotta say something here.

I notice a lot of people saying dueling is getting boring. Well, dueling has ALWAYS been boring. What makes dueling fun is the interaction, duel wars, intrigue and attitudes of the opponents. If you duel people and they respond with, "ya dang varmint, I'll git yer dang hide the next time!" you're going to be motivated to keep dueling. But if you duel people and they respond with, "I hate dueling now, dueling is boring," that's a catchy little negative mentality.

It's not merely the game, it's what you do with it. If the group mentality is to hate, then there's gonna be a lynching.

I got news for you HS,

If you think dueling is boring youd better take a look at the rest of the game, watching paint dry is more fun.

The whole game is and always was boring and inno has slowly been bringing dueling down to that level, click a spot come back an hr later for a stupid item, walk here walk there .... waste an hr of you time waiting for a shop to level... then oh great inno in the sky decided to start making duelers walk an hr for a duel.... have a belles that outclasses everything at a 1/3 of the way through the game nerf this nerf that have the best weapon in the game before your 1/2 though it... now what ? mmmm nothing really either pay nuggets and hope you get an even better one or tough luck.... tell you what not content with all that lets reduce every dueler who gives a rats gown to one simple build yea ? yea lets just make it so everyone can win a duel and base it on luck ... great idea. The result ? loads and I mean loads of duelers quit changed build and generally couldnt be bothered any longer. These are players that had bothered when it was exciting to the point where it really was a wild west and towns were a hot bed ... you either learnt how to duel and protect your townies or you were in trouble.... made something worth fighting for.

This game hasnt been progressing its been regressing ..... want another example ? np

Alliances and game chat and friends etc etc..... in a word pals...... when your friends with the whole world and you even yap away to your enemy politely you get no mails of hatred... Inno certainly helped there they've made everyone pals.... not much point in hate mailing your pals now is there ? group hug anyone ? its forced me on certain worlds to actually artificially create enemies and really upset players id rather not just to motivate... but hey thats the price of trying to keep an older world alive now. Inno killed the excitement and made everybody PALS... nice one.

Another example of boring ? np

Forts, There was a time forts were something worth doing....... inno could have really done something with the varied guns and make them key with different abilities... there used to be different strategies, I know this and so does world 9 and 10 where forts were born .....nothing much done to improve forts since.... fort skills are a waste of time and always were imo, ive never had a fort build and im always in the top 10% damage on my side in a battle... so much for fort skills...... then inno failed to address tanks mistake 1.... introduced the golden gun and made a stupid stacking rule... mistake no 2 .... introduced the dueler class bonus giving 1 class top billing every single fort 2 years after people had class chosen for forts on some worlds... thanks for that you muppets mistake 3.....not content with all that at some not too distant update inno messed with the fort AI .... now there is no varied strategy in forts for older worlds with offliners they all lemming onto the back wall when set for a tower ... and no it never used to do that so dont try to tell me it did.... as a result forts on older worlds are now insanely boring mistake 4.... Now inno has seen fit to exchange boxes for a few bits of paper a battle woohoo, seriously ? .... well guess what Inno you numbskulls thats mistake 5

Now lets see what we have gotten to make things more varied.....pretty new graphics all the time, lots of quests, lots of easier ways to play the game, lots of better items so noobs can do anything much easier... reduce the dueling variations to one... give uber weapons useable before the games half completed, give one class a fort supremacy every battle... sanitise forts so offline AI is now pretty much useless.Made duelers who played the game for the 10 mins on then off again into hrs of walking ...Allow pay to play nugget buying ... CC gaming rules....stop advertising the game and keep all profits. Inno ya even ruined W1 as a classic ... they have made this game so simple & so easy you can do lvl 35 in a week without trying and a belles by week 2.... seriously you think this isnt pathetic ? no wonder its boring ... attn span of a gnat some people then they are gone anyway.

Yea HS i can honestly say this game was far far better and interesting and in its own way re dueling at least varied in the first year... since then as DF says its all pretty much been a load of bells and whistles and no real substance... talk about boring ? when you realise your lovely Corvett on the outside is actually a VW engine under the bonnet youll eventually start looking for a new car.

There is no group mentality HS, nor are you gonna pin this on players like me... bottom line is inno has been a crap developer as games go, hasnt done a thing about real substance to this game since forts and has basically sanitised them too with stupid updates... the game is dying because of bad developing decisions, terrible updates with no real substance, ripping off customers, lack of advertising and basic greed to max profits asap.

There i think thats about it for the rant....

PS. meh its noobs like this that say .. oo do something else or quit blah blah.. well guess what nooblet ... I do fort fighting with my pure duel build on w10 and guess what Einstein im #1 top fort fighter there so dont try and tell me theres anything to fort builds ...players are quitting in droves ... gonna be real fun to play in the church sandpit with your other builder friends, as for respect ? that's earnt not through posting stupid irrelevant posts in a thread you don't care about ... trolls.

 

[DeletedUser]

Calling people names and saying they "just don't get it" just because they don't totally agree with you isn't going to make your arguments any more compelling. You can disagree with someone without being disrespectful.

It's got nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing, the fact is on the 2 daily duel quests you are wrong, but you just don't want to see you are wrong.
They are not duelers daily quests, they are everyones free quests, the only way you cannot get those 2 is if you are townless and can't duel another player.
There are no daily quests for duelers.
If you had to win the duels for those 2 quests then I'd say yes, they are duelers quests, but you don't.

 

[DeletedUser]

You misunderstood my post Victor. I said boring comes from the attitude of the players, not from the game.