Putin's message

[DeletedUser34315]

Putin's editorial in the NY times (which i cannot read because i am cheap) debates the idea of a country being exceptional.
"My working and personal relationship with President Obama is marked by growing trust. I appreciate this. I carefully studied his address to the nation on Tuesday. And I would rather disagree with a case he made on American exceptionalism, stating that the United States’ policy is “what makes America different. It’s what makes us exceptional.” It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation. There are big countries and small countries, rich and poor, those with long democratic traditions and those still finding their way to democracy. Their policies differ, too."
(Part of his editorial i found on a different website)

Now, I don't think the policy Obama is pushing right now(syrian war) is "what makes America special." That statement by Mr. President was idiotic, and clearly pushing an agenda. However, the US as a country is exceptional.
Putin says it is dangerous for a people to think of themselves as exceptional- a remark referring to nazi germany. However, there is a massive difference between a country thinking it is exceptional, and a race thinking it is exceptional.
There are today, and have been in the past, exceptional countries.
Rome was exceptional.
Greece was exceptional. Britain was exceptional, France was exceptional, Mongolia was exceptional, China is exceptional, Russia is exceptional.

The list of mighty countries throughout history is very, very long. Every single one of those countries was exceptional because they believed in their country. Their patriotic fervor is what produced their excellence! Saying that no country should think of themselves as excellent is foolish.There have been and always will be truly exceptional countries.

 

[DeletedUser31931]

First off I agree wholeheartedly with you (also, you missed out Macedonia, doesn't Alexander the Great get a look in?) and secondly just wanted to say one thing about on of his remarks and your consequently inferred referral.
If anything Russia is closer to Nazi Germany than the USA is. Example? Who wants to go walking in public in Moscow holding hands with their boyfriend right now? Not a gay person, or you'll get arrested. I mean, the USA isn't currently banning gay people or black people or anything that isn't the master race forward, yes it's not an equal system with equal opportunities, but it never will be, and the US system is much better than Russia's system.
(This is all I have to say, I tend to stay out of arguments these days unless I truly feel it is worth it as usually it ends up with everyone either agreeing with one another or the entire thing going round in circles with everyone not accepting the oppositions point as correct.)

 

[DeletedUser16008]

Exceptional is a word I would not use for a nation at all thats just propaganda, you could say particular events or achievements of a country or certain people were or are exceptional yes but when you use that word as Obama did its all about being patriotic and geeing up the people in a rah rah rah the US is great everyone else comes second etc etc. That is incorrect and just dogma, Americans are NOT exceptional any more or less than any other nationality, not as people or many of its vices, systems freedoms laws etc etc etc . It might have been once it sure isnt now imo.

No nation of people are exceptional perse, there are many things what can be seen as exceptional of the US that arnt so great too, exceptional murder rates, shootings, adult drug dependence, tranquillizers, international law breaking, refusals to sign up to many international agreements and a very very exceptional debt too etc but its not exactly anything to be proud of right ?

I dont agree with the use of the word exceptional at all in the context used and tend to agree with putin it is dangerous for Obama to say it in that context or manner and give people there the belief they are special over and above others. Obama knows exactly in the way it was meant and used, it was purely patriotic crap and a bit pathetic having watched it. Its just wrong and was poorly timed and Putin saw that so used the opportunity.

Nearly every country has been or is exceptional in some fashion, it is not a word to use the way Obama has but then again this regime ( i term it that because thats the way its beginning to feel ) is making the bush administration years look like professionals lol but thats propaganda for you and its always been used everywhere.

No Zem Russia is not at all closer to the old nazi fascism than the US is now its the same in any eastern old block country there are beliefs and same sex relationships are not accepted in the same light but thats not fascism and you know Russia being old communist was directly opposed to fascism even if both carried some similarities so does capitalism and democracy. Fascism in the popular consciousness has a pretty simple, straightforward definition: a country that will invade and enslave the world by force... This is to say fascist regimes are, by their very nature, inherently destabilizing and dangerous – they engage in aggressive foreign wars, they repress entire categories of people, and they seek to animate, through compulsion, the political activity of the entire nation (usually defined racially). Fascist regimes are, perhaps most distinctively, remorselessly and relentlessnessly ideological: isnt that the US ideal of spreading democracy around the world one way or another whether countries want it or not ?

Now you tell me exactly who is and has been acting more fascist Russia or the US for oh the past 30 or so years ?

You can feel the sentiment around the globe, all the US has left primarily is the fear of its military might not its policies or its exceptional enlightened greatness or land of the free thats being rapidly erroded for all to see any more... its hugely indebted to China ( a communist state ) and Japan and the middle east makes nothing but mainly arms, it exports mostly death and instability through its policies and constantly meddles in everyone elses business, it leaves behind it a total mess when it does go in with no exit strategy or after math plan and now even its intentions seem pathetically and increasingly bully boy and willingness to get in bed with terrorist factions hypocritical to say the least... all without the support of the majority of its own people I may add, this isnt good and its not an exceptional administration other than its exceptional in the way its managed to eclipse the unpopularity of the bush administration and double the US debt in half the time... yup thats exceptional.

What i think we have here is a very poor US president and administration who is increasingly losing all credibility both at home and abroad and a strong and confident Russian leader taking exactly the position youd expect and exposing it. Along with many other world leaders, the crown is definitely slipping and lets be honest its all self inflicted.

 

[DeletedUser34315]

Exceptional is a word I would not use for a nation at all thats just propaganda, you could say particular events or achievements of a country or certain people were or are exceptional yes but when you use that word as Obama did its all about being patriotic and geeing up the people in a rah rah rah the US is great everyone else comes second etc etc. That is incorrect and just dogma, Americans are NOT exceptional any more or less than any other nationality, not as people or many of its vices, systems freedoms laws etc etc etc . It might have been once it sure isnt now imo.

As I said, Obama's recent propaganda is not what makes america exceptional. "Particular events and achievements" are what makes a nation- if they are exceptional, then that country is exceptional at that time. England was exceptional during the blitz. Finland was exceptional during the russian invasion in wwii.

No nation of people are exceptional perse, there are many things what can be seen as exceptional of the US that arnt so great too, exceptional murder rates, shootings, adult drug dependence, tranquillizers, international law breaking, refusals to sign up to many international agreements and a very very exceptional debt too etc but its not exactly anything to be proud of right ?

Has there ever been a country that hasn't had problems, even when it was a superpower?

I dont agree with the use of the word exceptional at all in the context used and tend to agree with putin it is dangerous for Obama to say it in that context or manner and give people there the belief they are special over and above others. Obama knows exactly in the way it was meant and used, it was purely patriotic crap and a bit pathetic having watched it. Its just wrong and was poorly timed and Putin saw that so used the opportunity.

Nearly every country has been or is exceptional in some fashion, it is not a word to use the way Obama has but then again this regime ( i term it that because thats the way its beginning to feel ) is making the bush administration years look like professionals lol but thats propaganda for you and its always been used everywhere.

In Obama's context, of being exceptional because of our current foreign policy- no, not at all. Like I said though- there is a different type of exceptionalism, a country working together to be one of the greatest countries on earth.

No Zem Russia is not at all closer to the old nazi fascism than the US is now its the same in any eastern old block country there are beliefs and same sex relationships are not accepted in the same light but thats not fascism and you know Russia being old communist was directly opposed to fascism even if both carried some similarities so does capitalism and democracy. Fascism in the popular consciousness has a pretty simple, straightforward definition: a country that will invade and enslave the world by force... This is to say fascist regimes are, by their very nature, inherently destabilizing and dangerous – they engage in aggressive foreign wars, they repress entire categories of people, and they seek to animate, through compulsion, the political activity of the entire nation (usually defined racially). Fascist regimes are, perhaps most distinctively, remorselessly and relentlessnessly ideological: isnt that the US ideal of spreading democracy around the world one way or another whether countries want it or not ?

Now you tell me exactly who is and has been acting more fascist Russia or the US for oh the past 30 or so years ?

You can feel the sentiment around the globe, all the US has left primarily is the fear of its military might not its policies or its exceptional enlightened greatness or land of the free thats being rapidly erroded for all to see any more... its hugely indebted to China ( a communist state ) and Japan and the middle east makes nothing but mainly arms, it exports mostly death and instability through its policies and constantly meddles in everyone elses business, it leaves behind it a total mess when it does go in with no exit strategy or after math plan and now even its intentions seem pathetically and increasingly bully boy and willingness to get in bed with terrorist factions hypocritical to say the least... all without the support of the majority of its own people I may add, this isnt good and its not an exceptional administration other than its exceptional in the way its managed to eclipse the unpopularity of the bush administration and double the US debt in half the time... yup thats exceptional.

What i think we have here is a very poor US president and administration who is increasingly losing all credibility both at home and abroad and a strong and confident Russian leader taking exactly the position youd expect and exposing it. Along with many other world leaders, the crown is definitely slipping and lets be honest its all self inflicted.

Yes, the US is such a horrible, horrible place- our people are migrating out as fast as they can, and no one else is migrating in...
waiiiit.
I'll rarely defend Obama; he's done a pretty wretched job as president. However, the US still is, imo, one of the best countries in the world.

 

[DeletedUser16008]

Example comes from the top down, look at China every new leader is striving to leave a legacy that will be both honoured and remembered for since the reforms began by Deng Xiaoping, just like the early founding fathers they care about their nation and people and they are forging the future the world will follow this century. The US is in decline that is all im saying, Britain continues to be perceived as one of the best countries in the world but we are living on past glories as well, we have also had to seriously adapt since the end of the empire but we didnt do enough and are running on fumes now, in 100 years the UK will be little more important than Spain or France is now. People still come to the UK in droves but we actually need it to survive its not because its so great here and the prospects fantastic thats just an illusion based on reputation, which is waning.

The west IS in decline, this century will not be like the last nor like the previous to that, sure the US is and will continue to be one of the best for some time to come but its pretty clear the future century belongs to not conquest by force but trade, business and sustainable economics. The 21st century belongs to the East not the West, the smart ones will accept this and adapt not try to resist the inevitable.

Can the US re establish itself as a leader in other things people want and will buy and aspire to like it needs to ? itll have to do this pretty quickly because other world nations with the wealth are going to continue to grow exponentially. The US badly needs to decouple from its military complex and attitude and the burden of debt and mentality it is heaping on its people and the policies need to change. In short it cannot afford the war machine unless its in constant use and bullys sooner or later become unpopular. Exactly like Britain was forced to by circumstance last century after the war bankrupted the British empire and all its rule by force was swept away the moment its subject partners got the chance the same with France, the dollar became the new world exchange currency solely because the US was the only major power left untouched standing and at that time was not meddling all over the world or ruling by force...

Theres no point telling others how great or exceptional you are while holding a gun to their heads, they will only pay lip service as long as they have to, if you dont adapt and change, it wont last.

I'm saying the US needs to adapt or it will go the way of all the rest who had their day thats all.

 

[DeletedUser34315]

You don't think china will run into the same issues that slowed american economic growth?
The reason so much of american manufacturing moved to china is because of the lower prices to produce goods. The US was able to produce cheap goods too- back when we had no child labor laws, no unions, no minimum wage.However, as china gets to be a more modern country, workplace safety standards will rise, quality of living will rise, minimum wage will rise- in short, china won't be cheaper to produce goods in than the US anymore. This shift has already begun to happen- several tech companies have begun moving back to the US. As exports to the US are a massive part of China's economy, the more modern China becomes- the slower their economic growth.

I agree that the future belongs to trade and economic forces, and that the US could and should downsize our military. The government's willingness to borrow money or just create it is indeed alarming- but despite citizen's efforts to stop it, the current administration has not even tried.

The military size is a simple issue-"What's the point of having such a big military if we aren't using it?"
The average citizen is opposed to any more wars, however, so then- there really is no point to have such a big military. Halving the military would be an excellent move, imo. But- i am not president.( Move to america and vote for me and we can fix that )

 

[DeletedUser16008]

Oh i dont think China will have the same problems I think itll be much much worse for them due to its size population and needs. It is for the moment though the epicentre of growth and it has a long long way to go yet. Thing with China is it plays the long game not short, it bends with demands, its style of business and the whole Chinese thing is to adapt and go with the flow it dosn't resist it. Its already rebuilding Africa and doing business and it leaves countries alone politically while dealing in the board rooms of business to get things done, it dosnt mess with the policies or politics of nations to get what it wants it uses them to do business as they are. It imports tech for cash and sells us crap on for that cash and much more besides on tick, and we buy it by the ton lol whos the smart one ?

Sure China will slow down and go though many growing pains Russia will do the same and its far more healthy since its block mates split off, it is manageable again and has resources and its found its place as a growing economic power not a military lumbering giant like before.

Sorry but the shift isnt returning to the US thats just absurd tech is going all over the world, also tech does not employ in numbers manufacturing does the standard of living for Americans would have to drop massively or stagnate for decades before manufacturing was cost effective again there. You need real jobs not middle management or tech geeks to make the economy go round. jobs will not go back there if Chinas standards and costs rise they will just go to S America or Africa etc

The US military is in in 130 countries. You have 900 bases around the world thats one heck of a footprint and bill to pay. Only the american people can cause change internally the wider international community is definitely leeching off the US and has been for decades, it will suck the US dry without batting an eyelid if allowed to. I feel for you there I really do the foxes are in the henhouse and running amok and its difficult to see where the change can come form while everyone likely to get a chance is bought and sold long before they get anywhere near the whitehouse.

I hate to say it but I can only see a change if theres some from of revolution or return to the roots of your constitution. Hard choices none going to be easy or popular and one guy thats not going to do a damned thing is Obama

 

[DeletedUser34315]

Oh i dont think China will have the same problems I think itll be much much worse for them due to its size population and needs. It is for the moment though the epicentre of growth and it has a long long way to go yet. Thing with China is it plays the long game not short, it bends with demands, its style of business and the whole Chinese thing is to adapt and go with the flow it dosn't resist it. Its already rebuilding Africa and doing business and it leaves countries alone politically while dealing in the board rooms of business to get things done, it dosnt mess with the policies or politics of nations to get what it wants it uses them to do business as they are. It imports tech for cash and sells us crap on for that cash and much more besides on tick, and we buy it by the ton lol whos the smart one ?

Sure China will slow down and go though many growing pains Russia will do the same and its far more healthy since its block mates split off, it is manageable again and has resources and its found its place as a growing economic power not a military lumbering giant like before.

Sorry but the shift isnt returning to the US thats just absurd tech is going all over the world, also tech does not employ in numbers manufacturing does the standard of living for Americans would have to drop massively or stagnate for decades before manufacturing was cost effective again there. You need real jobs not middle management or tech geeks to make the economy go round. jobs will not go back there if Chinas standards and costs rise they will just go to S America or Africa etc

The US military is in in 130 countries. You have 900 bases around the world thats one heck of a footprint and bill to pay. Only the american people can cause change internally the wider international community is definitely leeching off the US and has been for decades, it will suck the US dry without batting an eyelid if allowed to. I feel for you there I really do the foxes are in the henhouse and running amok and its difficult to see where the change can come form while everyone likely to get a chance is bought and sold long before they get anywhere near the whitehouse.

I hate to say it but I can only see a change if theres some from of revolution or return to the roots of your constitution. Hard choices none going to be easy or popular and one guy thats not going to do a damned thing is Obama

I wholeheartedly agree with you there. He's done a wretched job, worse even than bush. The US really does need a return to the roots of the constitution.