petition to reverse 1.32 dueling

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DeletedUser20147

I haven't seen any change in my dueling results longer term - I still win about 4 out of 5 duels like I always did - but then again I have never even intended my character to be invincible. If the luck factor has indeed been increased a bit, it actually favors a bit players who are heavier on the offensive skills and not invested so much on appearance and dodging, but I still wouldn't call it a coin toss actually. You still need the defensive skills, even if the optimal distribution would be slightly different.
 

DeletedUser25947

I highly agree that the dueling system is a complete mess and works on toss of coin. Did tons of testing and tried several builds, nothing and I mean NOTHING makes any sense at all, if you think you can understand what the developers did behind this dueling system I wish you the very best of luck. It's shame when skill is left aside in favor of random events and definitely this is pushing away quality people from the game or at least from dueling.
Pity FF has it's own problems and random events so you are pretty much left with crafting, questing ( which lately is ridiculous anyway ) and doing some lame jobs.
THE WEST! :) enjoy!
 

Judge R Bean

I'm going to have to agree that the dueling system HAS changed. On the worlds where I'm resist there doesn't seem to be much of a difference for me, although I'm beating regular duelers 10-20 levels above and hitting them 4/5 times, I could beat them before but hit them 1/2 times, sometimes 3.

on W11, regular build, I've tried tweaking SPs all over the place and nothing makes much of a difference since the update where I'm losing on a far more regular basis against players that struggled to beat me before. I'm being hit 4,5 sometimes 6 times in a duel where before the update it was 2 maybe 3 if they were lucky. Dodge seems to have far less of an affect now, IMO luck has a big input which isn't acceptable when you have spent many, many hours and money on fine tuning your dueler character.
 

Diggo11

InnoGames
Neo, if you're even reading what has been written, I assure you the developers have double and triple checked for changes but found nothing. Until such time as anyone can isolate a specific problem area to look over nothing can be done. The developers don't think this is some troll joke, they're not lying - we just can't find anything to match the reported problem. And by reported problem, I mean the entirely conflicting reports in this thread. More than likely, it's probably some other change (e.g. the negative skills bug) is merely affecting your and potentially others' stats... or perhaps you're just not as invincible as you'd like to think.

If anyone does carry out any tests however, and does happen to distinguish an abnormal pattern of relevance, please report it to me. It will be given due attention, unlike these unproductive rants.
 

DeletedUser9470

Neo, if you're even reading what has been written, I assure you the developers have double and triple checked for changes but found nothing. Until such time as anyone can isolate a specific problem area to look over nothing can be done. The developers don't think this is some troll joke, they're not lying - we just can't find anything to match the reported problem. And by reported problem, I mean the entirely conflicting reports in this thread. More than likely, it's probably some other change (e.g. the negative skills bug) is merely affecting your and potentially others' stats... or perhaps you're just not as invincible as you'd like to think.

If anyone does carry out any tests however, and does happen to distinguish an abnormal pattern of relevance, please report it to me. It will be given due attention, unlike these unproductive rants.
thanks diggo, before you seemed to say there wasn't much wrong and that we had to put up with it.
at least here you agree there's something a tad weird going on.
your best bet is to talk to vic, he has pure builds in every single world he plays, and he's getting so many inconsistencies its untrue.

for my part, I am getting some very weird results too, but the oddities come and go for me, one day I have a normal day, and the next i lose every duel, even against players 20 levels lower.
ive never claimed to be invincible, on the contrary, I praise the system where every build has its alter ego. this induces respect and communication between players which is great.

I just find that as a pure duelist losing a duel against a player 20 levels lower is a tad odd.
20 levels=20APs and 60SPs Minimum(ive done all sp quests for my level and wear the gold set as well, and on top of that im nearly always buffed up with either jam+weapon buff, or bacon and beans+ weapon buff).
All this makes a Massive difference in APs... so it should be impossible for any dodge duelist 20 levels lower to come and beat me... for sure resist is a different matter.

or am I wrong on this?
most insane duels:





and then back to normal:


idk, its so inconsistent its unreal.
 
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DeletedUser20147

What's wrong with that outcome, Neo? :) I've almost always gotten my ass handed back to me when I've tried my luck with you. In fact I've ever won twice against you, and both times you were the one who initiated the duel (my tactics is way lower than my appearance), I was still using precise buntline, had 17 dirty points that I just recently respecced, was wearing a crappy belt and no buffs. And that was of course a long time before the upgrade.

So now that I've fine-tuned myself and buffed me up I was hoping to fare a bit better but the outcome still doesn't strike as weird or odd to me - luck has always played a big part in my duels from the get go. And since I was leaning in the wrong direction 3 out of 4 times I don't find that outcome all that strange.
 

DeletedUser9470

What's wrong with that outcome, Neo? :) I've almost always gotten my ass handed back to me when I've tried my luck with you. In fact I've ever won twice against you, and both times you were the one who initiated the duel (my tactics is way lower than my appearance), I was still using precise buntline, had 17 dirty points that I just recently respecced, was wearing a crappy belt and no buffs. And that was of course a long time before the upgrade.

So now that I've fine-tuned myself and buffed me up I was hoping to fare a bit better but the outcome still doesn't strike as weird or odd to me - luck has always played a big part in my duels from the get go. And since I was leaning in the wrong direction 3 out of 4 times I don't find that outcome all that strange.
yer man, I agree, is why I say "back to normal:"
 

aleft1

The past 4 days I have gone out dueling on 4 separate worlds basically going on a tour from 1 end of the map to the other and I'm still going to try and get a real picture of any possible differences. I am using 1 fire arm soldier class, 1 fire arm dueler class both high dodge reasonable shooting/aim, and 2 resistance melee soldier class.

My results are normal for me, no real difference in any of the out comes. The characters are pure duelers, my hits are just as consistent as before with the expected damage. I can see no change and if there had been no announced update and these threads I would not have had anything to post in this regard.
 

DeletedUser16628

I've been experimenting it has cost me a lot to do so.This is a resist build of mine on w-12.Before the update I'd win 450-230 or so on average.I am typically top 5 in reflex or toughness depending on my mood.This duel I was 3rd in toughness Total health points
- 877 HP
Total health points
- 1272 HP
infiniti99 wins the duel, gains 119 experience points and steals $259 from Sinsemilla.ss
 
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DeletedUser25947

I have HEAPS of abnormal duel reports and I can always forward them to the developers if they wish. I wont post them here though cause I respect my opponents.
I even have reports of dueling inactive people and within 3 hours first duel was won ( aprox figures here ) 250 - 1250 which is a pretty normal result, second duel was lost with 450 -0.
I mean if this is not toss of a coin than what is it?...good aim build, normally winning with AT LEAST 4-5 hits landed and bang, the next duel with the same person, same aim/dodge pattern, him being inactive - so basically NOTHING changed lost with NO HITS landed. I am sorry but this is beyond my standards of acceptance. Dueling should be based 99% on skill and probably 1% on luck or random events otherwise it's just destroying the pleasure to play the game. I wish Developers would have eyes and ears for us " ranting " as we not ranting for nothing, we just raising an alarm about the problems they have in their game - and at least me I wouldnt rant for nothing, I always back up my statements with extensive testing and results.
 

DeletedUser33078

Dueling system has been changed!

I suppose the following things:

There is a math function that applies to : aim, dodge, appearance, tactics.

That math function is likes square root function, the inverse of parabola function. Certainly the real function is stronger than square function but for example I have chosen this function for simplicity.

This function is chosen so as not to unbalance the game for high skill points, reduces substantially invested skill points.

So, before 1.32 update I suppose that, again:
Attack value = Function AIM * Function(Appearence-Tactics) or maybe Function AIM * [Function(AIM) - Function(Tactics)]

Defence value = Function DODGE * Function(Appearence-Tactics) or maybe Function DODGE * [Function(AIM) - Function(Tactics)]


Multiply the effects.

Now,
Attack value = Function AIM + Function(Appearence-Tactics) or maybe Function AIM + [Function(AIM) - Function(Tactics)]

Defence value = Function DODGE

Because of that Defence value decreased , so we get more hits! Defence value also decreased more than Attack value in 1.32.

So reflex and toughness builds are in advantage.

Maybe, if the formula reflex + toughness/2 or inverse was no longer valid and reflex and toughness must be completely separate to balance duels world.

Good job, -Neo-.
 

DeletedUser1121

I just find that as a pure duelist losing a duel against a player 20 levels lower is a tad odd.
20 levels=20APs and 60SPs Minimum(ive done all sp quests for my level and wear the gold set as well, and on top of that im nearly always buffed up with either jam+weapon buff, or bacon and beans+ weapon buff).
.
Maybe it has something to do with buffs. Maybe their effects aren't calculated in the right way, causing some strange results.

Would you try to test that for me? Duel a day without buffs and one with.
Maybe that will explain why some days you have normal results and strange ones the other.
Maybe it is a specific buff or a combination.
 

DeletedUser33078

Mister Bugs ranger I think you're a honest person, really. About duel system I think the players know more than you!

Ironically all of the complaints came from range duelers. I will explain that:

A strong melee dueler, high reflex and toughness, 0 aim and some appearance hit good range dueler once or twice. And in many cases win! This was the main reason.

Behind the game when your aim is 0, the real value is probably 20. Multiply the real aim value with your (appearance-tactics) points. With little high appearance value beat all tactics builds and also many high appearance build if your build put some points in aim and combine them.

Now all of complaints came again from range duelers! embarrassed!!!!!!!!!!!!

I like how this game is build, nice ajax function, good graphics. Good programmers at Inno but about MVC model I think that Duel Controller component is not what I expected.

If you want to report, to do your job Mr. Bugs, so:

why when I login to the West game, the ajax function send in clear my password and username to get player id? Maybe.....this is a problem and please test it!


Let
duels to us or came with good arguments!

Do not push the button, maybe a nuclear bomb will blow up!
 

DeletedUser1121

Mister Bugs ranger I think you're a honest person, really. About duel system I think the players know more than you!
I don't doubt that players around know a lot about duelling, but trust me when I say I have had my share of duelling and am quite familiar with the duelling system.

Ironically all of the complaints came from range duelers. I will explain that:

A strong melee dueler, high reflex and toughness, 0 aim and some appearance hit good range dueler once or twice. And in many cases win! This was the main reason.

Behind the game when your aim is 0, the real value is probably 20. Multiply the real aim value with your (appearance-tactics) points. With little high appearance value beat all tactics builds and also many high appearance build if your build put some points in aim and combine them.

Now all of complaints came again from range duelers! embarrassed!!!!!!!!!!!!
And what exactly did you explain here? You made an assumption on the real value of aim.
That does not explain any of the cases Neo brought up here.

I like how this game is build, nice ajax function, good graphics. Good programmers at Inno but about MVC model I think that Duel Controller component is not what I expected.

If you want to report, to do your job Mr. Bugs, so:

why when I login to the West game, the ajax function send in clear my password and username to get player id? Maybe.....this is a problem and please test it!
Sure, the way your login is handled must be the reason why the duelling system is showing some strange reports to some. This is just way off topic and shows you have no interest in working out the real issue. So instead of just derailing this thread, do something useful and report this in the proper section if you want something to be done with it.

Let duels to us or came with good arguments!

Do not push the button, maybe a nuclear bomb will blow up!
I am trying to give some suggestions about recent changes that might have influence on the duelling mechanism. That is more then you did in this post.
 

Hillbillyjam

All good fun

Hi guys

I was pointed in this direction and it has been good fun reading through it.

Hi guys

Hope you are well?

I am disappointed Neo didn't show his usual friendly banter when i got the win against him? :D
I always take the losses in good spirit and play along with his cheeky mind games.

This game is fun, i have been playing for 3 years now and met some great people. There are varying levels of dedication to this game and I am afraid sometimes the 'big boys' get a little shock.

Surely the 'big boys' need to stay ahead of the game and keep their finger on the pulse and it will minimise the danger of getting caught out.

Anyway real life calling

All the best

HBJ
 

anhlong1122

In the old time, my charisma/dodge/aim cant even be touch by resistant dueler at the lvl range of 10~40. Most duel again them is just 0~2 hit from them can hit me. But now it is more like 4~6 hit each duel. And i think something weird happen......
 

teh train robber

My aim is at around 200 on world 8 and I feel like im hitting worse. Ive lost every duel today, and its mainly becuase my enemy is hitting me more often than I do. All my duels have been me attacking btw.
 
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DeletedUser16008

My aim is at around 200 on world 8 and I feel like im hitting worse. Ive lost every duel today, and its mainly becuase my enemy is hitting me more often than I do. All my duels have been me attacking btw.
Its definitely more noticeable on attack... these are the things ive noticed happen more than usual.

Defending

Aim seems to work ok here but it could of course also be that tactics still work and app dosnt * ....dodge dosnt seen to be as useful as guessing what way to dodge on stance.

If your a tactics head with good dodge its not so bad ... youll get hit only if you guess wrong on the dodge a few times... if your attacker is not resist this normally wont affect the duel much... if they are then probably they will hit 3 or 4 times whereas before 0 - 2 and win

You can get hit every single time if you dodge wrong .... very high dodge and tactics or not. Its happened a few times now ... never before the update.

Attacking

This is even more random and seems to be very much based on the spots chosen to dodge and aim for...

50 aim or 200 the results are very similar and ive come to the conclusion over 150 aim is a waste atm imo.

Crazy dodge ? dont bother its totally rubbish. Itll work sometimes and not others

Appearance seems not to do anything re them missing a hit now...

In general Aim and dodge seem to be very randomized now and it dosnt seem to matter who im dueling ... tough soldier or weak worker the results are variable... some very lucky results for non duelers out there... and more than a few losses testing vs various different builds and opponents...

Conclusion

ATM best attack build by far seems to be still the resist ... nothing new youd say there except the resist now hits 3 - 4 times on average, which is a huge advantage for them to have gained in an update that was looking to address the resist god problem.

Resist killer build is still very effective and fine for def if done properly but best to choose only resist to attack ... even with 200+ aim as TTR has found out youll get butchered.

Other pure duel builds now seem to fair only marginally better than regular builds atm, at least to the point of you really really have to think weather you want to duel that soldier in tactics kit cos your prob gonna lose a lot of hp if not lose the duel and very possibly get kod on the return if you guess bad enough...

Fort tanks are now almost 100% safe from getting kod by one regular player even if offline... why ? because they can hit 2 - 4 times defending and the attacker will run out of hp before the tank is dead... same problem with str based resist, unless your a resist killer youll run out of hp before he does.

Summery

Stance and picking where you aim and dodge seem to be just as if not more important than the actual skill in some cases.

If you set purely for defense you have a very good chance of kicking someones butt like never before and you can go out and have a go .. your likely to win far more by luck now so a def build makes sense.... Be a resist kill build on def and youll own them and defend well from all others.

Resist still comes out the most useful build for active players.

The pure attacking build is tougher to play than before, no doubt about it. Youll lose far more than you used to.

Its very possible the average build is just as good as the pure now but on that i cant comment.

I find it hard to accept the professional pure dueler has only a margin of advantage when there is so much he has to give up ... ie aim and dodge on sp.

Still testing
 
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