NSA's Criminal Activity

Discussion in 'Debate and discussion' started by tigermite, Jul 1, 2013.

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  1. Victor Kruger

    Victor Kruger Well-Known Member

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    All sides are long since bought and paid for, there are no innocent politicians by the time they rise to the top, only the less corrupt and they dont get anywhere. No one gets in who is not already vetted and set up to win. Simple as that, to believe there is a real choice between election runners is pretty naive in this day and age.

    Democracy is not freedom but merely an orchestrated illusion, it only forces an ideal of one part of society (usually the minority ) on the rest and that is not freedom.
     
  2. Gandalf Greyhame

    Gandalf Greyhame Well-Known Member

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    You seem pretty down on democracy- if you could replace it, what would you replace it with?
     
  3. Victor Kruger

    Victor Kruger Well-Known Member

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    In short answer to your question A Republic. A real one mind you thats upheld not watered down. How about a Constitutional Republic ?;)

    John Adams: That the desires of the majority of the people are often for injustice and inhumanity against the minority, is demonstrated by every page of the history of the world.

    Thomas Jefferson: All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that through the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will, to be rightful, must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal laws must protect, and to violate would be oppression.

    James Madison: Democracy is the right of the people to choose their own tyrant.

    John Witherspoon: Pure democracy cannot subsist long nor be carried far into the departments of state - it is very subject to caprice and the madness of popular rage.

    John Marshall: Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos.

    Oscar Wilde: Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people.

    Winston Churchill: The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

    Sydney J Harris: Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be.

    G. K., Chesterton: Democracy means government by the uneducated, while aristocracy means government by the badly educated.

    George Bernard Shaw: Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.

    Dr Laurence J Peter: Democracy is a process by which the people are free to choose the man who will get the blame.

    Alan Coren: Democracy consists of choosing your dictators after they've told you what you think it is you want to hear.

    Winston Churchill Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried.

    And finally .....Karl Marx: Democracy is the long road to socialism.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2013
  4. tigermite

    tigermite Guest

    Victor, the democracy that I refer to is not the watered-down illusion that besets us at the moment. I'm talking more about solid democracy (for and by the people), more like a republic.

    The police, who are in the public service sector. And obviously would not have surveillance powers.
     
  5. Bat Masterson

    Bat Masterson Banned

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    WELL according to the news the DEA is getting into the act of MASS spying and LYING about it, to Juries, judges etc.....
     
  6. Zemelci

    Zemelci Well-Known Member

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    So when they miss all those crimes because they couldn't see them coming and lots of money is lost in damages and policemen are sacked for not doing their job but they can't because they can't monitor things to make sure that a crime isn't going to happen?
     
  7. tigermite

    tigermite Guest

    Of course. Protection, the so-called justification for surveillance used by many a politician. Here's the deal; surveillance of any kind can only be justified under a fair government.
    I quoted Benjamin Franklin earlier, and I stand by that quote.
     
    Gandalf Greyhame likes this.
  8. Gandalf Greyhame

    Gandalf Greyhame Well-Known Member

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    I'd rather take a small risk of being the victim of a crime, than the certainty of being under government surveillance. I'm with tigermite.
     
  9. Victor Kruger

    Victor Kruger Well-Known Member

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    Aye I hear you tigermite :)

    +1 Life is about risk, theres being relatively safe and aware you have to take care and then theres handing over all responsibility to others and basically living in a goldfish bowel. Breeds weak and docile people who cannot think for nor protect themselves. No thanks I've been a victim of crime, some quite violent when young, it was my wake up call to rely on only myself and it made me stronger. Looking back most were preventable by me simply being more aware and paying attention of my surroundings/situation. Had I not had these experiences it would not have prepared me for the wider global world where ive been able on a number of occasions to avoid or diffuse some pretty nasty situations or becoming a victim.

    No I don't wish to live in a bubblewrap world either thanks.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2013
  10. Zemelci

    Zemelci Well-Known Member

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    But if we put your democracy in place then we would have a fair government, so why wouldn't there be surveillance?
     
  11. tigermite

    tigermite Guest

    Under the ruling of a fair government by and for the people, the presence of surveillance would be dictated by the people. So providing that the government is fair and just, and that there are sufficient laws and watch bodies to make sure that no rogue government members attempt to use the data for their own purposes then yes.
     
  12. Zemelci

    Zemelci Well-Known Member

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    There is a quite funny cartoonist in the Telegraph called Matt (My parents buy it for that and the sports section), and several years ago he did one that illustrated this perfectly (unfortunately I can't find the image) which was where it was a man and his wife and she's saying "The police say if you're looking for your glasses they're next to the sink."
     
  13. Desi Boukerse

    Desi Boukerse Has gone psycho

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    You all stop complaining about the NSA now!

    They don't feel loved anymore:
    Washington Post
     
  14. tigermite

    tigermite Guest


    Oh... oh my... that's so sad.... I... I... feel so bad for criticizing them...