New push rules

Status
Not open for further replies.

DeletedUser9470

again, and this is the 3rd time i say this:
the issu is not with selling items cheap, its selling items way above their normal value.
this would be considered pushing cash.


as an example:
theres 10 odd part 2s up for sale atm on w10, theyre all worth roughly the same value, between $500 and $1500.
would you be surprised to see one come up for sale for $200.000?
how surprised would you be if that said item was also sold??!!!!!!

the issu with doing this is very simple, you can make a level 1 rich beyond his dreams. might as well give up your account now and make a new one and transfer all your cash to your new level 1!

the market leads prices, if the price of an item for sale stands out on the wrong side (ie is way to EXPENSIVE) then for sure there is something dodgy going on. if it is a very low price then so be it, that wont be pushing cash around.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser22575

again, and this is the 3rd time i say this:
the issu is not with selling items cheap, its selling items way above their normal value.
this would be considered pushing cash.


as an example:
theres 10 odd part 2s up for sale atm on w10, theyre all worth roughly the same value, between $500 and $1500.
would you be surprised to see one come up for sale for $200.000?
how surprised would you be if that said item was also sold??!!!!!!

the issu with doing this is very simple, you can make a level 1 rich beyond his dreams. might as well give up your account now and make a new one and transfer all your cash to your new level 1!

the market leads prices, if the price of an item for sale stands out on the wrong side (ie is way to EXPENSIVE) then for sure there is something dodgy going on. if it is a very low price then so be it, that wont be pushing cash around.

Neo I understand your point. But the rule also discuss pushing items.

But I would like to see at least a little clarification from a Mod on this issue so we have something official to go on instead of this ambiguous rule we have been stuck with.
 

DeletedUser13636

Again and this is the 2nd time I say this:
I really do not see this as being a problem. In my opinion this is merely wealth redistribution.

As an example:
A fellow player needs some cash, I have the cash and I want to give it to him or her. They put an item up and I buy it, this would be me redistributing wealth.

If I gave up my account and created a new one then I would be breaking a different rule as I have two accounts at the same time while I try to make the level 1 character rich.
 

DeletedUser16008

Ohhh boy are people going to be out on a limb over this one ... when is a door not a door ? when its ajar.. etc

This was always open to abuse re the market and what degree that is will depend on a "Judgement Call" if its acceptable or not....

Clear as mud :rolleyes:

What a laugh :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
 

DeletedUser13636

Ohhh boy are people going to be out on a limb over this one ... when is a door not a door ? when its ajar.. etc

This was always open to abuse re the market and what degree that is will depend on a "Judgement Call" if its acceptable or not....

Clear as mud :rolleyes:

What a laugh :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Yeah your right Victor, but it is only abuse because these types of rules exist in the first place. It is a game and sharing the wealth should not be an issue. It is what it is I suppose, but I would really like to to see this rule regarding the market gone. Not gonna happen, I know. I am sharing my view is all, two sides to every fence.
 

DeletedUser3543

Again and this is the 2nd time I say this:
I really do not see this as being a problem. In my opinion this is merely wealth redistribution.

As an example:
A fellow player needs some cash, I have the cash and I want to give it to him or her. They put an item up and I buy it, this would be me redistributing wealth.

If I gave up my account and created a new one then I would be breaking a different rule as I have two accounts at the same time while I try to make the level 1 character rich.

I agree, it is a matter of wealth re-distribution. Hellstromm has covered this very point, and I get the impression his view is that re-distribution is an integral part of the game.

Logically, the next step from this announcement will be to ban players who are leaving from selling all their possessions and donating the cash to town!
 

DeletedUser9470

for sure
but wealth distribution is out of order.

if you want to give a guy loads of cash then that is way out of order and goes against the ethics of the game.

how can you not see the issu with this?

i worked extremely hard to get my cash.
do you think its fair that some njub comes in at level 1 and gets given a squillion dollars?

i believe were all in need of some extra cash "i wanna be a billionaire so "censored" bad
the rule is you suffer like everyone else and work to get your cash.

if this becomes something that is allowed then we can organise a mass quit/restart after a week and everyone is a level 1 billionaire!

ive always thought that peeps taking over level 99 accounts from peeps cos theyre quitting, was also out of order too, but im not the one to point fingers.

how can you not see theres an issu with this?

if i got everyone to give me their dosh how more unfair do you want it to be?
seriously?
 

DeletedUser13636

how can you not see theres an issu with this?

We all have our idea of what is fair and what is not fair I suppose Neo. For this reason alone the rule will remain I am sure. Simply put you see it as being an unfair advantage and I do not, some will see it the same way as I do and some will see it the same way that you do. Wish we could all see it the same though, we can't so they make these rules and we all have to live with them. lol
 

DeletedUser9470

for sure,i agree opinions vary. but if someone gets a huge advantage like this i will be upset having worked at it for ages spending loads of premium to get the same level of wealth...
im sure all those who have also worked hard and spent time and money into their characters will feel the same.
if this is the case then i will be asking why no one gave me loads of dosh when i needed it...
 

DeletedUser

I would suggest some level cap for moving cash around. Same as with multi letters. Level 1 can earn maximum amount of 200$ for example. Something like that.
 

irppu

Active Member
Multi accounting is already against the rules, so that takes care of the "someone making a lvl 1 noob and giving cash to himself" scheme without having to make rules about the use of the market.
As for a player wanting to use the market to give money to his friend(s), personally I can't see why that should be against the rules. Since when is generosity a bannable offence? If someone willingly gives their hard earned money to someone they like I say it's theirs to give away.
Besides, gear has level restrictions anyway. So even if a rich level capped player gives his level 10 buddy a million dollars and thus the level 10 noob can immediatle afford to buy a precise winchester, you won't see him running around in battles with it.
 

DeletedUser

So what if one gets some item cheaper or nearly given free? Maybe that guy deserved it? He's made contacts, you can do it yourself.. and also give forward.
You don't ask money for every pint you buy for your friend in pub do you? Or perhaps dying loved ones should take their valuables to grave. Ok, rough example, but that's how it just goes in my opinion. So yes, shouldn't be against the rules, atleast not absolutely.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser9470

Multi accounting is already against the rules, so that takes care of the "someone making a lvl 1 noob and giving cash to himself" scheme without having to make rules about the use of the market.
As for a player wanting to use the market to give money to his friend(s), personally I can't see why that should be against the rules. Since when is generosity a bannable offence? If someone willingly gives their hard earned money to someone they like I say it's theirs to give away.
Besides, gear has level restrictions anyway. So even if a rich level capped player gives his level 10 buddy a million dollars and thus the level 10 noob can immediatle afford to buy a precise winchester, you won't see him running around in battles with it.


i understand.
yer its good, that way you can have level 44 hernando holders, without having to do anything!
sounds fun to me.
seems fair to all those who have been working their asses off for a nice weapon for years and still havent got anything...
i mean these guys are real njubs! why dont they just get a mate to register, or even 100 mates to register and then quit 2 months down the line giving all the cash over to them.
much better, more ethical way of playing!
I approve, in fact im getting all my facebook/twitter/linkedin friends to make a free account right now that way ill be able to afford a nice grants in a month or two.
im sure a million $ offer will sway the sword my way.

great idea! thumbs up!
 

DeletedUser25487

I like the idea of many of the new changes, but I have to say... many of us saw this coming, pointed it out, and were brushed off. This is local administration scrambling to address the HUGE, GAPING, OBVIOUS loopholes in the new updates... some of which practically have a blinking neon sign that says "Abuse Me Here". And the only way to do that is to create subjective, vague new rules that basically charge the staff with making judgment calls off-the-cuff. In other words, worst. possible. situation.

In the past two hours I've come across three ways to abuse the current systems without breaking any of the current rules, as they are written. Beta testing shouldn't just be about bugs and browser crashes... jesus, how about a little deeper analysis before this stuff gets unleashed?
 

DeletedUser16008

Perhaps the roadmap could do with traffic lights where they should wait while looking which way to go before tearing off up the highway only to realize there arnt any safety barriers in place to protect those already on the road ;)
 

DeletedUser16628

I agree with victor completely, The rule is a fine line way to easy to cross.
IMO the push duel rule OBVIOUSLY needed to be updated, but I see NO logical reason to add the market "comment" at least NOT without a public discussion of it. Now the devs probably will say they didn't ban "ALL" prearranged market sale, but based on the current wording at best ANY prearranged market sale is at best a JUDGEMENT call as to whether it broke the rules or not and in my book that is virtually the same as banning it because I am NOT going to risk my account over judgment call [too hard to tell right from wrong and the line between the two is always moving from one judgment call to the next].
 

irppu

Active Member
i understand.
yer its good, that way you can have level 44 hernando holders, without having to do anything!
sounds fun to me.
seems fair to all those who have been working their asses off for a nice weapon for years and still havent got anything...
i mean these guys are real njubs! why dont they just get a mate to register, or even 100 mates to register and then quit 2 months down the line giving all the cash over to them.
much better, more ethical way of playing!
I approve, in fact im getting all my facebook/twitter/linkedin friends to make a free account right now that way ill be able to afford a nice grants in a month or two.
im sure a million $ offer will sway the sword my way.

great idea! thumbs up!

Well you do that then. I won't frown on you for recruiting your friends to help you get Hernando's sword. Me, I don't care. You can have a level 44 with 15 Hernando's swords, it doesn't take anything away from me.
You could duel me with a pebble equipped and you'd still win cause I have 0 dueling skills, so to me that sword means nothing, and therefor I can't agree that all generosity of spirit should be crushed just to make sure noobs don't get something shiny without having to do some painful quest. I don't care about these noobs. I do however care about being able to help out my friend when he desperately needs a new fort gun. And yeah, he did do something to deserve it, he was nice to me and chatted with me and became my friend. A different kind of effort.
Just my point of view.
 

DeletedUser22685

You are still allowed to organise with other players if you have something they want, but the point of the rule is that you're not allowed to, for example, sell something for a ridiculously low price to one player in return for another ridiculously low priced item in another world. The same goes with ridiculously overpriced items.

You also cannot sell something to someone cheaply, for say 5k, then have then sell it back for 10k and get a 5k profit out of it.
 

DeletedUser

Umm, no. Guess it's time for me to chime in. ;)

The ingame moderators are the ones tasked with using common sense to enforce any rules instituted by Innogames. And yes, these rules were instituted by Innogames, not by me. So, then we go back to how are the ingame mods going to intepret these rules and the enforcement of such?

Well, I see it as something rather simple: If you coordinate with another player to purchase a piece of tobacco for $100,000, then we can reasonably determine that is pushing, and I doubt anyone in this community will argue this determination. If you coordinate with another player to purchase a piece of tobacco for $1, then I think most everyone will agree no harm intended, nor effected.

The purpose of the rules is to ensure "exploitation" has repercussions. We can make up rules all day long, we can penalize people for anything they do that is not already in the rules. We can, but we don't. We attempt to present a list of actions that will result in penalties, particularly if those actions result in some sort of personal benefit that is above and beyond what would be deemed reasonable interplay. All in all, it's common sense and if you think the moderating team is a bunch of illogical rapheads, then yeah, nothing we do, no rules we are tasked to enforce, will ever come out in a manner that will make you happy. Oh well, too bad.

See, we work very hard to ensure all our ingame mods (Deputy Marshals & Marshals) are top notch and are consistent in their utilization of common sense. It is exceedingly unlikely that any of our Deputy Marshals will hunt down and kill anyone for selling tobacco for $1. And, if such a ridiculous event does occur, that's why we have a Marshal, and why we have Community Managers, to review, recommend, and/or intervene if necessary.

So, you hate it, that's fine. A Hernando's sword being sold for a $1 will get our attention. A piece of tobacco being sold for $100,000 will get our attention. Less dramatic, but still noticeably inappropriate sales, will get our attention. If you violate a few other rules (multi) in order to further exploit the market or the sheriff, be assured eventually we'll ruin your day. The greater the exploit, the lessor the mercy we will present.

Let's remember the reason that the Market exists, which is to buy and sell items, not to swap items and/or cash between accounts. Buy and sell, buy and sell --- common sense, common sense.

That's it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top