P&P Multis again?

[DeletedUser9470]

This is an old world, so we can't expect a lot of new players to join and things to balance out that way. We are basically stuck with who we have. The only real way I see things reaching some balance here is if there are towns in the Project with high hp players that are willing to move to MC, and if there are towns within the MC that have more players of lower hp that would be willing to move to the Project. It would be great if people could have a constructive conversation about how to actually get some balance and fun, rather than bickering about who is to blame for the imbalance that we have.

only thing i agree with. what ive said all along. and to be honest as you point out, in the first week the issues were obvious.

best is we go back to old MC vs GC. that worked out since the start until some thought splitting GC up and creating FFU was a good idea.

nonetheless, as we all know, any sensible solution is point blank rejected by the project.
so there is no way forwards, only backwards.

 

[DeletedUser]

Mr. Paddler, i agree with everything you said. The problem, as i see it, is that there aren't many who would be willing to switch sides at this point. Those of us in The Project don't seem to want anything to do with MC or GC leadership, while those in The Coalition are too loyal to their leadership to want to switch sides. I don't know that there are enough people willing to make the necessary alliance switch right now.
Of course, i'm certain that's all our fault. After all, everything that is happening now is happening exactly as it was planned from the beginning...

 

[DeletedUser9470]

Mr. Paddler, i agree with everything you said. The problem, as i see it, is that there aren't many who would be willing to switch sides at this point. Those of us in The Project don't seem to want anything to do with MC or GC leadership, while those in The Coalition are too loyal to their leadership to want to switch sides. I don't know that there are enough people willing to make the necessary alliance switch right now.
Of course, i'm certain that's all our fault. After all, everything that is happening now is happening exactly as it was planned from the beginning...

indeed.
as you point out, you are obviously not very good at planning...

 

[DeletedUser]

only thing i agree with. what ive said all along. and to be honest as you point out, in the first week the issues were obvious.

best is we go back to old MC vs GC. that worked out since the start until some thought splitting GC up and creating FFU was a good idea.

Neo, the MC vs GC war was over. MC won. I think the only forts that GC has are forts that MC gave them with they merged.

Man, out of that whole post there was only 1 thing you could agree with? I don't know if I should take that as a sign that I was way off target, or if I should take it as confirmation that I was dead on.

If you want to place all the blame on Helen for calling the first multi, you can do that. I was trying to be gracious and spread some of the blame out on Cro and others as well.

 

[HelenBack]

After all, everything that is happening now is happening exactly as it was planned from the beginning...

Sorry, that's incorrect. The Project was meant to bring balance to the world. Not become a fort fighters hugfest. How do I know? I was one of the original people that thought up the idea... OAN was the other one. Guess what... NEITHER of us are in The Project? Now why do you think that is? Maybe because The Project morphed into some kind of steroid-laden freakshow?

 

[DeletedUser]

Sorry, that's incorrect. The Project was meant to bring balance to the world. Not become a fort fighters hugfest. How do I know? I was one of the original people that thought up the idea... OAN was the other one. Guess what... NEITHER of us are in The Project? Now why do you think that is? Maybe because The Project morphed into some kind of steroid-laden freakshow?

We all know you left because you felt Bold City made The Project too strong. Fair enough. OAN left because we were winning too easily, and MC needed his hp and abilities. Fair enough. Both of you left before our people started going tank-happy, but i already know your memory is suspect.
By the way, thanks for leaving.

 

[HelenBack]

If you want to place all the blame on Helen for calling the first multi, you can do that. I was trying to be gracious and spread some of the blame out on Cro and others as well.

Sure Kayak, I'll take the blame for it... It will always be pointed at me anyways. I chose both of those forts for a particular reason... Anyone with half a brain could probably figure it out. A hint... Certain people promised not to assist with the attack on a Diablo fort... and they broke their promise. Yes I realize that it does put them in a difficult situation at times, but a promise is a promise. When I give my word, I mean it.

Now if Cro hadn't stepped in to mess things up, there still would have been time for all of you to nugget over to the right battle (and we know you love them nuggets!). But then the day went nutz and everyone knows what happened there...


I agree that Shadow Walkers (SW) have been switching sides to try and help balance battles... But the way they just up and leave without notice is a bit frustrating. I don't know if they discuss anything with The Project before leaving, but there certainly hasn't been any discussion with our side.

When the FFU/GC joined MC, they were likely given the choice to go to The Project as well. And I think some of them did go to The Project. So the numbers increased on both sides.

Current Numbers:
The Project: 609
Coalition: 982

Now... Remember this is just complete numbers.... Not active people. If you look at the battles yesterday... We didn't have enough out there to defend/attack most of those forts. So, ya... We have the numbers, but most could care less about forts.

The response we get from The Project when we try to get things balanced.... "You guys need to go out and get GGs, beef up and make everyone go to battles.". So... Now The Project wants US to change OUR way of playing because all the fort fighting towns joined the same alliance? Go to Hades! I've said it before... There is NO WAY I will ever demand my town members or alliance to do something they do not want to do.

You took the main ACTIVE and DEDICATED fort fighters from both major alliances and merged them into one. Things will never be balanced with The Project leading the way.

 

[DeletedUser9470]

hehe, i meant that what i bolded was the most relevant, most of what you said is spot on, i simply thought that it was all pretty obvious KAYAK!

you say not to blame but now that its all gone awol with no return what else can you do>?

It is difficult for me on a personal level, ive spent most of my time recruiting and helping lower levels, and doing everything i can to get GC motivated too (yes, flameposts here had an objective and always worked). now w10 is fecked, i now wonder why i put in so much effort only for some few who think they are smart to come from nowhere and rip it all up?!

i dont see any of these people putting in anywhere near the amount of work berkie and vic and even myself put in to keep this world balanced. i even recruited peeps for GC!
i bet you didnt know that!

as far as im concerned there is no way we will ever get w10 back on track.
this world is now doomed to be a w1 copy, with a premium twist. just like w2-w9.

and thats down to the project. nothing vic or berkie or myself can help unfortunately.
i know for a fact if any of us had a say things would be very different.
how anyone can blame vic or berkie or helen or even myself for this situation is beyond outrageous.

on a personal level, i have achieved everything in terms of character. i pwned every dueler one by one, i got record after record, ive got more medals than most workers and questers. i got all 3 g oldens, i got 10 shiny weapons. ive done all extra SP and AP quests.
i pwn every player on w10 in most of the stats, like amount of money banked, number of times prayed, distance traveled, most kos, most npc duels, most deposited into a foreign bank etc. if there was a ranking for all of these stats you would see my name at the top.

there is only one thing going for w10 now: the alliance chat.

it pains me that all of my community work was in vain and is the reason why i am still here, im still hopeful it wasnt in vain... optimism keeps us all alive!

like booz has just said, there is no return. i think a lot of people who play in the project are dishonest and very selfish. i bet most MC feels that way, especially the people who put the effort in. like when walkers came back, it wasn't very comfortable. a bunch of ill mannered traitors think its alright to come back and say sorry! probably the reason why they decided to leave again. and to say "oo look at us were ever so nice and this time we put a little farewell post up for ya" is beyond hypocritical of them. as far as im concerned, on a personal basis, they can all get stuffed. bunch of low life backstabber's is all they are in my eyes.
as for bold, i simply Dont know what went on so i cannot comment, i just feel that a lot of them were friends i talked to every day, i even made some profile designs for some of them! and from one day to the next they turned their backs on me. they can go to hell too, quite clear to me they Dont give a monkeys what happens as long as they get their box and xp. bunch of rl bankers.

and all of this is why i keep pushing for a fb boycott. If we bail these backstabber's out i will be mighty pissed off. i prefer to watch them sit around at empty forts for the next year first.

a si see it it is the only way forwards, the world has to die out completely first, before we can rebuild anything.
boycott>project backstabbers take their steroid characters to go kill another world>rebuild.
as simple as.

 

[HelenBack]

We all know you left because you felt Bold City made The Project too strong. Fair enough.

Nope... Actually, Bold was NOT supposed to be part of The Project. But I guess they wanted to get all huggy with the rest of the fort fighters. No idea how they even found out about it, but they must have been invited by someone... Anyways, I found out Bold was joining The Project... When they left MC. As did everyone else. When we chatted with Vic while working out the details, he was told that Bold would stay since they were the main fort fighting town for MC. Also, The Project promised to wait until Vic had reached a goal before starting The Project.

But then suddenly, before Vic was done, The Project couldn't wait to hug... so they all left. That's also when we discovered that Bold decided to join them. I was still waiting to hear back from my town members before going... But when The Project broke TWO promises ( wait for Vic's goal and Bold was supposed to stay with MC ), I decided that I would not be a part of a group with no honour.

By the way, thanks for leaving.

You have no idea how glad I am not to be part of that mess.

 

[DeletedUser16008]

I'll pick up here rather than 2 similar threads.

I should know better than to comment on these threads, but here we go anyway. (It ended up being very long. I don't blame you if you don't want to waste time reading it all. I sort of wish I go back in time and not waste my time writing it all)

I would have rather not had cro counter Helen's multis, because the end result was a mess of battles. But, let's not pretend that it wasn't all started by Helen's multis, which were called only a few hours after another large defense the project had.

To say it wasn't a multi or doesn't count because it was an issue you had with Shadow Walkers misses the whole point. Fort battles are never about 1 town or 1 town versus another.

But, we could have handled Helen's multi, and 3 battles within 4 hours (1 large and 2 mediums) without calling a multi counter. And, MC could have handled Cro's multi counter without a bunch of multi counters of their own. Blame for the mess of battles on Saturday can fall on each side. But, to blame Cro and ignore the multis he was countering is just silly.

You'll notice i havn't commented on the other day and I shan't now judge me by the number of battles i personally called.

It seems people are upset with Shadow Walkers and giving them some grief. But, in my mind they are the town that has done the most to try to get the world to a balance (which hasn't happened). MC was dominating the world, and FFU was on the brink of complete destruction. Shadow Walkers left and joined the Project to try to get some balance. After a week or 2 it became clear things were lopsided in terms of hp and maybe experience/online status. So, Shadow Walkers switch back to MC. Then MC merged with GC and began calling counters right away. The Project was vastly outnumbered and couldn't even fill a medium fort. So, Shadow Walkers switched back.

Some people take issue with them for this, but they've been trying to get some balance. The issue of balance is that the Project has more high hp and pure fort fighters, and MC has more players. So, for things to get balanced MC needs more hp and pure fort fighters, and the Project needs more players to fill out the battles. Shadow Walkers going back to MC helped address part of the issue. But then GC merged with MC (insert silly hug-fest comments as every else seems to do). This just made the imbalance of overall numbers even worse. So, Shadow Walkers switched back. This ends up hurting the hp balance, but the overall numbers needed some balancing.

I'd like for a moment to make it clear why we held out the hand to GC etc ... the war finished i had no wish to see anyone frozen out of the game least of all those who have contributed to the entertainment for so long and another thing there simply wasnt especially regarding forts enough people left to continue alone...we always took in towns/allies for reasons other than forts & its what made us what we were. For the past couple of years we had vastly less numbers to call on in the MC than GC/FFU

For the sake of numbers in an alliance its again a moot point if the large majority are for want of a better word part time players 900 or so that was always the problem with the FFU lots of people little actives. In total for us id say probably no more than 150 are active fort regulars and of those maybe 20% are set up for forts alone... they are there when they wish or have time rather than forts being the main, happens to be true and i'm not complaining its their game and who am I to say how they play, the same cannot be said for Project as in total contrast its forts that are the main if not only reason they log into 10...

Part of the problem in getting balance is that the towns that are most interested and motivated to get a balanced world with fun fort battles are the towns with the most active fort fighters. So, when the Project formed, it was natural for it to be made up of towns that saw the fort fighting part of the world coming to an end and battles being very imbalanced and not much fun. Town that are less regular in attending fort battles aren't as interested in switching to something new.

So what we have regardless is two very separate groups one who cant afford/willing to spend or make forts as the main reason they play and call them amateur enthusiasts where forts are concerned if you like vs the other who are probably only really interested and active on the world purely for forts call them the professionals if you like and it includes the GG HP travel by warp all that stuff

This world still has balance issues, that much is clear, though some blow this way out of proportion. The last attack the Project won (before Saturday's mess) was a small fort where the attack had an average of 9 hp more per defender. Attackers had 10 GGs compared to 7, and 6 offliners compared to 3. We aren't going to get starting numbers a whole lot more balanced than that. Part of the reason this was balanced was because some high hp players of the Project were off defending a counter, so it's not as if the starting numbers of this battle are what you would expect if there was only 1 battle for players to go to.

Once a fort is full its full occasional balance will produce mixed results & I got no problem losing battles on that basis god knows there have been plenty since the world began. The feeling is with a counter in my book at least theres a simple choice to win the first or risk a blowback, players will either attend the initial battle or be forced to consider the second a priority in all my time of playing ive never been concerned with that nor have I ever complained its a multi which considering its only 1 called by that side it cant be. 2 or more are of course. Is it really any less justifiable than using tanks ?

This is an old world, so we can't expect a lot of new players to join and things to balance out that way. We are basically stuck with who we have. The only real way I see things reaching some balance here is if there are towns in the Project with high hp players that are willing to move to MC, and if there are towns within the MC that have more players of lower hp that would be willing to move to the Project. It would be great if people could have a constructive conversation about how to actually get some balance and fun, rather than bickering about who is to blame for the imbalance that we have.

Now moving on I agree we are stuck with who we have & the gap will get wider, I know this because you cant put the genie/steroids/GG back in the bottle. I really have no wish to have yet another w12 or Arizona style based world they are dying faster than here imo as a result of that and I think most in coalition would agree its not why we fort nor play on w10. For me its just not what I signed up for or why I started doing forts. I may snarl and growl and play my character but really the times where normal players can just pop along, fort fight and have fun while making it worthwhile is fast becoming a thing of the past, not just here but across most worlds.

What to do about it ? I really don't have any answers as people will play the way they wish regardless & it causes an awful lot problems that are unlikely to be fixable regarding any kind of balance. I find it harder and harder to find forts entertaining these days my golden set adds nothing in entertainment factor for me in fact I was happier with a precise musket and regular saber, like kacky i consider myself a regular player just here for some fun and feel privileged to have been around in the real "golden age" of battles.

No point going over who, what, why, when, they did this, they did that, it serves no purpose any longer and unfortunately im out of ideas.

 

[DeletedUser]

No, The Project never promised to wait until Vic was done with his war. In case you haven't noticed, most of us were on the losing side of that war...why would you expect any FFU members to agree to wait until we were thoroughly defeated before changing things? We should have waited until Perfect Insanity and The Mercenary had taken the last of our forts? We should have continued to ally ourselves with GC leadership that didn't like us? Those are pretty ridiculous things to expect of us.
There is nothing in our forums about any promise to keep Bold City out. We've always been about accepting those who wanted to join, as long as they were willing to play nice.
If you'd joined our forums back then, you could have been making these points BEFORE things happened. To stay on the outside during the formation and then cry foul when things don't happen the way you want them to seems pretty iffy to me.

 

[HelenBack]

No, The Project never promised to wait until Vic was done with his war. In case you haven't noticed, most of us were on the losing side of that war...why would you expect any FFU members to agree to wait until we were thoroughly defeated before changing things?

Were you in the chatroom when we brought Vic in to discuss matters? Because that is what was discussed... and agreed to. Although "my memory is suspect"... Maybe Vic can confirm what was said.

If you'd joined our forums back then, you could have been making these points BEFORE things happened. To stay on the outside during the formation and then cry foul when things don't happen the way you want them to seems pretty iffy to me.

Which forums? No one told me about any forums... If I got a notice to say add them, then I would have. But there if there's no reason for me to go into "Manage Forums" then how else am I supposed to know they are there?

 

[DeletedUser9470]

most of us were on the losing side of that war...

seriously?
infraction junction was on winning side
bold city was on winning side
shadow walkers was on winning side

these are your 3 main towns. they never were on losing side.

nonetheless, infraction junction is the only real winner, and now leads this world easily with 317000 fort points.

so the world is now reduced to the mercenary duel points vs infraction junction fort points.

 

[DeletedUser16008]

No, The Project never promised to wait until Vic was done with his war. In case you haven't noticed, most of us were on the losing side of that war...why would you expect any FFU members to agree to wait until we were thoroughly defeated before changing things? We should have waited until Perfect Insanity and The Mercenary had taken the last of our forts? We should have continued to ally ourselves with GC leadership that didn't like us? Those are pretty ridiculous things to expect of us.
There is nothing in our forums about any promise to keep Bold City out. We've always been about accepting those who wanted to join, as long as they were willing to play nice.
If you'd joined our forums back then, you could have been making these points BEFORE things happened. To stay on the outside during the formation and then cry foul when things don't happen the way you want them to seems pretty iffy to me.

Just gonna make a short comment there booz then im done going over history. It was only ever about GC forts nothing else certainly not FFU forts they may have got caught up by association but were never on the things to do list ever,it was made clear on numerous occasion.

Umm what forum, where, when ? never once was I or any other representative invited to any discussion other than at the very end re timing and again it was made clear by me the war was over the minute the last GC fort was taken NOT FFU . There was no communication I assure you so it would have been difficult to have any input no ?..

 

[DeletedUser]

Vic--I know that's how things looked from where you sit, but every GC-owned fort had non-GC towns in it, and every battle for GC-owned forts had non-GC members involved. This is the same mistake Helen made with her recent multis. You can't target a certain portion of an alliance without targeting the whole alliance. That's just how alliances work. There was a definitely split in our alliance, but it was still the only alliance we had, until The Project came about.
The forums i'm talking about were the forums set up as The Project was coming together. Of course you weren't invited to them, you weren't going to join The Project ;-Þ Helen, however, is claiming she started The Project, even though her town never progressed beyond the 'pending' stage. She and OAN had an idea to start a new alliance LAST SUMMER, but never went anywhere with it.

Neo--Don't be a fool.

Helen--I don't remember. I was there when OAN was trying to sell Sam on the idea, but i think i only got transcripts from the chat with Vic.

 

[DeletedUser9470]

its always convenient to have a selective memory

 

[DeletedUser16008]

Vic--I know that's how things looked from where you sit, but every GC-owned fort had non-GC towns in it, and every battle for GC-owned forts had non-GC members involved. This is the same mistake Helen made with her recent multis. You can't target a certain portion of an alliance without targeting the whole alliance. That's just how alliances work. There was a definitely split in our alliance, but it was still the only alliance we had, until The Project came about.
The forums i'm talking about were the forums set up as The Project was coming together. Of course you weren't invited to them, you weren't going to join The Project ;-Þ Helen, however, is claiming she started The Project, even though her town never progressed beyond the 'pending' stage. She and OAN had an idea to start a new alliance LAST SUMMER, but never went anywhere with it.

k fair enough so you understand we had been at war with GC from near on day 1 of 10. We did go out of our way as a town to avoid non constan owned forts for a long long time. Why on earth so many forts were handed over to constan during that period ill never know its not how we roll and in fact we give plenty away. The only reason mercs call so many is it seemed to have a result in numbers coming out to play, its probably still the case.

Sure I understand not being invited to them, I cant help wondering tho that as things progress that may have been a mistake regarding the health of the world in general as that was always supposed to have been a consideration since the beginning of The Project no ?

 

[DeletedUser]

Sure I understand not being invited to them, I cant help wondering tho that as things progress that may have been a mistake regarding the health of the world in general as that has always been a consideration since the beginning.

Honestly, at this point i agree with you there. At the time we were so worried about being able to compete that it never occurred to us that we'd actually dominate. I know everyone on your side is convinced The Project was only formed TO dominate, but that's just not the case. If we realized then how strong we'd be compared to everyone else, we'd have done things differently. Maybe an outside perspective was needed to show us how far off-balanced things would be. At the time, all we could think about was 'do we have enough people to defend our forts when MC attacks?'

 

[DeletedUser16008]

Honestly, at this point i agree with you there. At the time we were so worried about being able to compete that it never occurred to us that we'd actually dominate. I know everyone on your side is convinced The Project was only formed TO dominate, but that's just not the case. If we realized then how strong we'd be compared to everyone else, we'd have done things differently. Maybe an outside perspective was needed to show us how far off-balanced things would be. At the time, all we could think about was 'do we have enough people to defend our forts when MC attacks?'

Yea well i can totally relate to that from my xp of w9 where we originally set up a fort protection alliance to do exactly the same. What I didn't realize at the time was how dominant it would become there and it killed the world because at the time we were the only ones using a chat a huge advantage with no battle chat around or any other enhancement, im sorry to say my town and more specifically I was pretty instrumental in that, its not a mistake i care to make again nor see here, it benefits no one in the longrun.

 

[DeletedUser]

Yea well i can totally relate to that from my xp of w9 where we originally set up a fort protection alliance to do exactly the same. What I didn't realize at the time was how dominant it would become there and it killed the world because at the time we were the only ones using a chat a huge advantage with no battle chat around or any other enhancement, im sorry to say my town and more specifically I was pretty instrumental in that, its not a mistake i care to make again nor see here, it benefits no one in the longrun.

Did you ever figure out how to rebalance the world there? I'd love to see it happen here, but the only solutions i can think of involve the cooperation of people who've shown no indication they'd be willing to cooperate.