Make it possible for the duel level to go down.

Dr.Mcninja

Proposal
Make it possible for the duel level to go down.


Current Workaround
Not letting your duel level increase in the first place. This game progression though and is annoying in most situations.

Details
With a duel level closer to your actual duel level, dueling will be more closely matched to the potential skills another player might possess. When the duel level increases too much, you end up only being able to duel players 20 or more levels higher and with the current duel system, this almost certainly means a lot of losses. This makes it more or less game over for the players with a high duel level.

Abuse Prevention
Simply make the set up require enough failed duels that it's exploitation would cause the same sort oof disadvantage as having too high of a duel level. Something like losing duels 4 times to equal the amount of negative duel level adjustment as it would otherwise take to increase it.

Visual Aids
No visual aids necessary.

Summary
If the amount of XP given to the winning partner in a duel could be deducted from a duel level as it would apply towards increasing a duel level if you won, then players constantly losing because their duel level is too high could resume participation in the dueling aspect of the game.

Administration
Does this idea meet the Ideas Guidelines & Criteria? Yes/No -Don't know, don't care, not my idea

Does this idea appear on any of the Previously Suggested Ideas List? Yes/No
 
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Sumdumass

Well-Known Member
That's because you are being you and only see what you want to see.

There is a proposal there, it's just not formatted the way it should be.

For those who cannot comprehend a statement that isn't using the standard form, I will include it. For the original poster, there is a sticky thread saying read first or something like that at the top of this forum section that informs us of a specific format proposals need to be submitted in. You really need to use this format because some people are so smart, they cannot understand anything obvious to us lesser people unless it is framed a certain way. BTW, You should really edit your own post and use the format in your own words. While I was able to glean enough information to make something up from your post, your own words might present your idea better then I can second hand.

Proposal
Make it possible for the duel level to go down.


Current Workaround
Not letting your duel level increase in the first place. This game progression though and is annoying in most situations.

Details
With a duel level closer to your actual duel level, dueling will be more closely matched to the potential skills another player might possess. When the duel level increases too much, you end up only being able to duel players 20 or more levels higher and with the current duel system, this almost certainly means a lot of losses. This makes it more or less game over for the players with a high duel level.

Abuse Prevention
Simply make the set up require enough failed duels that it's exploitation would cause the same sort oof disadvantage as having too high of a duel level. Something like losing duels 4 times to equal the amount of negative duel level adjustment as it would otherwise take to increase it.

Visual Aids
No visual aids necessary.

Summary
If the amount of XP given to the winning partner in a duel could be deducted from a duel level as it would apply towards increasing a duel level if you won, then players constantly losing because their duel level is too high could resume participation in the dueling aspect of the game.

Administration
Does this idea meet the Ideas Guidelines & Criteria? Yes/No -Don't know, don't care, not my idea

Does this idea appear on any of the Previously Suggested Ideas List? Yes/No -Don't know, don't care, not my idea.
 

Hellstromm

Grossly exploitable. People will lose duels just to bring their dueling level down. It will encourage pushing & reverse-pushing.

Dueling with 100% mot provides a lot of standard xp., while also increasing dueling level (via dueling xp). People will no doubt participate in duel parties to push each other's dueling levels down, so they can level up faster.
 

DeletedUser25480

Grossly exploitable. People will lose duels just to bring their dueling level down. It will encourage pushing & reverse-pushing.

Dueling with 100% mot provides a lot of standard xp., while also increasing dueling level (via dueling xp). People will no doubt participate in duel parties to push each other's dueling levels down, so they can level up faster.
dueling is exploitable now...

An example for you:
2 players have a duel lvl of 100, by dueling each other and ensuring an equal win/loss ratio with each other they will be gaining the same amount of exp since their dueling levels will always remain the same, if anything this idea will decrease push dueling in my opinion as if this was implemented i would be a lot more focused on ensuring a good win/loss ratio rather than anything else
 

Hellstromm

Yes Sagaris, it is exploitable in that fashion (thus the "pushing" rule), but the pushing you mentioned above is obvious to just about everyone in the game (rankings). What is presented adds one more, far more, exploitable avenue that is not obvious to outsiders (it will require mods to catch it, and likely only if they're clued in).

As to the win/loss ratio, reaching level 120 in a week or two is possible if there's a means to keep duel levels in check (as the above proposal provides). Once they reach that level, they can go zero mot with a base DL and pwn other players at lvl 120 for the cash, win/loss, and whatever else they want.
 

Sumdumass

Well-Known Member
It would be quite simple to see if someone is pushing to lower their duel level (had hp orinally for some reason). Right now they are doing it to get bonds for the daily quests so I'm not sure it is something they are all too concerned with.

But simply making the XP equivalent to lower a duel level something like four or more times what is needed to raise it, then it would be obvious when players start losing all the time and have not changed skill allocations or been put in KO. I mean who is going to go through 50 losses without a KO just to lower their fuel level one point. And on the contrary, the other person will need to raise their duel level putting them in the exact same situation.
 
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Dr.Mcninja

^You have a good point. The xp you "lose" should be half of the exp your opponent wins.
Or maybe a little more/less.
 

Jakkals

Banned
^You have a good point. The xp you "lose" should be half of the exp your opponent wins.
Or maybe a little more/less.
Some people would want a higher dueling level. This proposal do not cater for them

Also as Hellstromm pointed out this will lead to pushing as players use pillows etc to lose duels.
 

Sumdumass

Well-Known Member
Actually, the people who want a high dueling level would not be effected by this at all. This would only kick in if you consistently lose duels to players. And it would only decrease you duel level by a fraction of the increase of the winner.

As for pillow fights, that happens now. But lets examine this a bit. Suppose the reduction is based around 25% decrease for every xp point gained by the winner. If they earn 500 xp in the duel (which isn't likely) their level will only be reduced by 125 xp. So they would need to duel 4 times giving 500 xp away in order to be equal to the one duel. The only way to exploit this is obvious and it then becomes a push duel and covered by already existing rules.

Now, if they are not enforcing the rules, then it is another subject altogether. But it is hardly valid to claim an exploit that violates an existing rule is a way to exploit this scenario. You would have to assume it will not happen without punishment already in place.
 

Jakkals

Banned
I skimmed through your reply. You should have said it merely hampers their progress as of course nobody wins all of his duels.
My vote btw is NO.


Its the old saying of hope over experience. Although you may plug all of the holes in this idea when we get to vote it will be voted out. The problems is too many.

For example I duel and reach the top. Now I use a potion to reset my skills but with lots of HP .reflex/toughness. Now I just lose the maximum number of duels till I am such a ridiculous level such as competing with level 40. Then I buy potion again and start dueling again seriously. So then I zero mot for days on a end and make tons of money torturing low level duelers.

While people dont want to duel players of their own strength there will be no dueling idea that passes. cause that would be the easiest solution just base your dueling level on your skills. No dueling 400 sp construction people etc or people with almost 0 points in dueling skills.

If you can point out 1 advantage to non duelers of this idea I will change my vote from NO to yes. Its just a "lets beat up on even weaker duelers" idea. I cannot harvest the workers anymore boohoohoo :(
 
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DraGonFlyBG

Well-Known Member
I skimmed through your reply. You should have said it merely hampers their progress as of course nobody wins all of his duels.
My vote btw is NO.


Its the old saying of hope over experience. Although you may plug all of the holes in this idea when we get to vote it will be voted out. The problems is too many.

For example I duel and reach the top. Now I use a potion to reset my skills but with lots of HP .reflex/toughness. Now I just lose the maximum number of duels till I am such a ridiculous level such as competing with level 40. Then I buy potion again and start dueling again seriously. So then I zero mot for days on a end and make tons of money torturing low level duelers.

While people dont want to duel players of their own strength there will be no dueling idea that passes. cause that would be the easiest solution just base your dueling level on your skills. No dueling 400 sp construction people etc or people with almost 0 points in dueling skills.

If you can point out 1 advantage to non duelers of this idea I will change my vote from NO to yes. Its just a "lets beat up on even weaker duelers" idea. I cannot harvest the workers anymore boohoohoo :(
IF you are a non-dueler, what is the difference who will kick your hiney ? As a non-dueler even people who are 30-40 levels lower than you can beat you, so i cant see your point here.
 

Jakkals

Banned
IF you are a non-dueler, what is the difference who will kick your hiney ? As a non-dueler even people who are 30-40 levels lower than you can beat you, so i cant see your point here.
shouldnt duelers rather duel each other? the point is that you create a system where a dueler can return to any dueling level..no more restart needed. Making it impossible for players then to compete with them. It would be like you allow a heavyweight to drop to flyweight.
 

Sumdumass

Well-Known Member
Well, the duel level would never go below the player level as that is already the situation. As for your switching to HP reflex or whatever, I see that as no different then fort fighters, adventurers, and townless people getting to level 120 then switching to dueling for a while and attacking level 70 players. It is no different then the 0 motive duelers already in game. I have on several occasions now stopped advancing levels so I could specifically duel certain people who were too low.

Sorry, but I just don't see how your concern isn't already happening. Nothing will be different other then players would be able to duel more matched players
 

Hellstromm

lol, I knew things would get muddied as soon as Jakkals tossed himself into the discussion. Silly guy...

Anyway, there are three main issues with this that are being glossed over:

1. 100% mot dueling provides a buttload of xp. Being able to drop down your dueling level so you can maintain 100% mot while dueling will shoot you up to level 120 in record time.

2. You don't have to have a partner (or partners) to lose duels. You merely have to duel people without your defenses and with a lame weapon.

3. Yes, by the time you reach level 120, in a matter of a few months for having 100% mot dueled your way to the top, you will have a lot of losses -- probably a 1:3 win/loss ratio. HOWEVER, your duel level will be very low for having approached the game in this manner, at which point you can switch to 0% mot dueling, with a rock bottom duel level sitting at level 120. From this point forward, you can duel to your hearts content and rack up a buttload of wins, far more than the amount of losses you had to obtain to get to level 120.

To ignore these three main points, to gloss over them and act like "exploitation" is too complicated, is to either be blind, or disingenuous. I prefer to believe all of you didn't see this.

Thanks for your time.
 

DeletedUser25480

lol, I knew things would get muddied as soon as Jakkals tossed himself into the discussion. Silly guy...

Anyway, there are three main issues with this that are being glossed over:

1. 100% mot dueling provides a buttload of xp. Being able to drop down your dueling level so you can maintain 100% mot while dueling will shoot you up to level 120 in record time.

2. You don't have to have a partner (or partners) to lose duels. You merely have to duel people without your defenses and with a lame weapon.

3. Yes, by the time you reach level 120, in a matter of a few months for having 100% mot dueled your way to the top, you will have a lot of losses -- probably a 1:3 win/loss ratio. HOWEVER, your duel level will be very low for having approached the game in this manner, at which point you can switch to 0% mot dueling, with a rock bottom duel level sitting at level 120. From this point forward, you can duel to your hearts content and rack up a buttload of wins, far more than the amount of losses you had to obtain to get to level 120.

To ignore these three main points, to gloss over them and act like "exploitation" is too complicated, is to either be blind, or disingenuous. I prefer to believe all of you didn't see this.

Thanks for your time.
I'm a pure dueler (100% mot or as close to it as possible) and i get a lot more exp fort fighting or generally doing high exp jobs.

If the suggestion of the decrease being significantly lower than the exp received by the winner being taken into account it would take a ridiculous amount of time for someone who has 100% mot dueled to 120 to get back down to a 0 dueling level, this time would be further increased as other players (i imagine lower lvls with higher dueling levels) attempt to attack and lose providing the 120 with even more dueling exp to lose.
 

Hellstromm

While your argument may sound sound, it is not. at 100%, with a low duel level, you can duel people with likewise low duel levels that provide lots of xp. As it is, your high duel level decreases the amount of xp you can obtain. This is partially due to the difficulty of your targets that can provide more xp so of course, without even trying, you aim for the targets you can beat... the targets that will invariably provide less xp.

We are not talking about a 100% mot, high duel level character, we're talking about a 100% mot, low duel level character. At the onset of a 100% mot character's duels, his xp obtainment is high. It goes down substantially as his duel level rises.

The thing is, this is a can of worms. We can foolishly "assume" nobody would exploit this, or we can foolishly "assume" everyone will, but it is far more likely we'll have "some" exploiting it, and that some is more than enough to make this a bad idea.
 

Jakkals

Banned
@sumdumass the Op never suggested that there would be a bottom cap. Must I assume therefore there will be one? @ Hellstromm --- i will refrain from insults such as yourself.....:rolleyes:

the idea cant pass because it wont get the 70% needed to pass to the next stage. Thats because on certain topics no one can agree.

Like I said I have skimmed so far if I went into full assault(tank mode) i would probably find more and more and more reasons why your idea wont work. That is if I really felt there is a chance of this idea passing. Which I don't.

@ what hs said further. What? 1. lets reduce it:100%motivation will give you more xp if you drop dueling levels?
2.yes but then you will be probably ko'd constantly as others see your easy gear. defeating the purpose
3.this will be lessened by the effect that others will also be following this strategy.

but I dont see this as a good solution for the problem. So will leave this idea to die a natural death..:laugh::laugh: