Lets clear this 0 motivation thing up

DeletedUser16008

Meh i didnt want to have to do this but seeing as Dudie got the hump and closed the thread going off topic i suppose I think its time to clear this up.

Seems to me from the last thread that Dudie you obviously do not understand the 0 motivation thing as well as you think nor do I suspect others. It is a very versatile build.

I am still 0 motivation at lvl 120 ...& not of the variety that most seem to be talking about here.

These are the following reasons I 0 motivate.

Low level.....

as everyone has said... you get to buy the very best kit and make tons more money "stealing it" far more fun than working for it and has an effect of paupering your targets ... most which are definitely an enemy anyways.... you afford the best gear and also you LEARN the finer art of dueling far far faster... you get to know what works best.

Meduim level

You take care of your duel lvl ... you dont let it get too high becuase then you cant protect your town from the lower lvls or be so high duel level you get your ass spanked by people 50 lvls higher theres nothing cowardly about it its just sensible not to become a victim for the rest of the run to lvl 120... money is still great and you can be very effective on the dueling field in a town or alliance war ... you are the shock troop of the town and youll be very busy being employed on revenge attacks etc if you are a team player.

High level.

So you go to battles and do xp jobs when you want to level up.... at high level or lvl 120 if youve kept your motivation down and your duel level too you will never run out of targets ... allowing you to be active still on older worlds and so add to the activity there...

I have been 0 motivation from lvl 10 to lvl 120 I levelled up in battles and I am top #1 fort fighter there with nothing but a pure duel build so the job of being a 0 motivation dueler and fort fighter is incredibly hard and you have to be more active than almost anyone else.. I avoid no one and also did it to allow me to hit the entire world at one time or another... now at lvl 120 there is 1 i cannot hit and thats the #1 dueler cos of his duel level ... to hit him i will have to up my duel lvl and lose about 100 or more targets so its not viable or sensible to do so plus id destroy him anyway so theres no point bothering about it.

You all think you understand the reasons for 0 motivation and that its somehow below a regular style of play.... take away the duel level and you wont see any 0 motivators.

My toon on w9 went to such a high duel lvl early on that as the world got quiet i had all of 15 targets for over 6 mths... thats no fun and i swore never to have my fun ruined again for the sake of a stupid duel lvl that never ever goes down ... it should drop over time if you dont duel but it dosnt ... this is an intended trap to get players to start new worlds when an old one becomes pointless.

Yes there are 0 motivation hiders etc etc but be careful what you say ... there are other reasons to do it and i assure you most I know will cream almost anyone of a similar real lvl and plenty far higher not because kit but because they are superior in dueling due to knowing how to maximise it and understand how a build actually is and works to the best effect.

Some do it for the reasons you think.... but.... there are others that use it for a whole other reason too.Do not go dissing the build when you dont understand the full uses and dedication to it required because its people like us that keeps things active in dueling... without us worlds etc would die out that much faster i assure you.

BTW for your information most top class duelers I know have at some point been low or 0 motivation now why do you suppose that is ? because of the training it provides thats why.

PS DF understands 0 motivation Dudie and im afraid you clearly don't.
 
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DeletedUser

bla bla ..

My point exactly:
i assure you most I know will cream almost anyone of a similar real lvl and plenty far higher not because kit but because they are superior in dueling due to knowing how to maximise it and understand how a build actually is and works to the best effect.

bla bla ..

Just like I said in the other thread, is not the 0 motivation that guarantees the win. You just proved my point. What else is there to talk about? That knowledgeable players are 0 mot duelers? Yeah, exactly my point. D'oh! That's why they got the best equipment too, not cause they are 0 mot, cause they are knowledgeable. They are not knowledgeable because they are 0 mot, they are 0 mot because they are knowledgeable. Some chose not to, because is hard or for other reasons like me. I like everything in the game, but mostly dueling. But not 0 mot. :)
Of course I won't understand it at the extent you do, I have never been a 0 mot dueler. But I had my share of duels (remember I was one of the scoundrels too ;) )
 

DeletedUser16008

mmm proved what exactly ? this is a thread I started just simply to help people understand the other side and reasons to it, you wished to argue the point and closed the other for going off topic I understand that but I dont see just because you dont wish to talk about it why others shouldnt. They are knowledgeable specifically because they are 0 mot ..they learn far faster by being 0 motivation trust me..... That isnt to say some miss the point and become worse through having an easy time they make of it themselves but its a small minority imo.

Im not the first 0 motivator far from it, I learned that from Realm of Deceit and he from Hans Bros and from Whistlingleaf etc .... it was W10 it became popular mainly through my town and Infraction Junction ... actually a moderator populated town believe it or not going at it. Yup HS was there too and yup we went to war and good fun had by all.

W11 Bloody path is a direct result of W10 The Mercenary where I built a town with about 5 or 6 0 motivation duelers in it, intended to become top dueling dog as a town and also top town with the rest attending forts. In short it worked with devastating success.... Dgorsk learned the benefit of it from us and half of Bloody path were/are players from W10 who decided to take it to a new level there etc etc

As its partly my efforts with others on W10 that made the benefits of 0 motivation etc so clear and spawned a pandemic I wish to clear up the myth of the 0 xp player being just a coward etc and highlight the other reasons some do it. It was never my aim nor intention with my town to be anything but the best and so hard no one would come close whatever the class or level, it sure was/is devastating and I also feel you are missing what benefit being one does for your ability, experience in dueling and knowledge let alone your towns stats and ranking etc and protection of its townies .... really youve got it upside down 0 motivation increases knowledge of dueling etc sure some do it after getting a bit wiser but after they have done it i guarantee they are nearly always the better dueler in ability after it than they were before they did it.
 
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DeletedUser

I closed the thread because 0 motiv was not the subject, the subject was something completely different and despite my efforts, nobody seemed to want to go back to the original subject. I have no issue with 0 motiv dueling being discussed here. Fire away. :)
Was just saying that our views are not so different. And since you referred to opinions expressed in the other thread, I did so too.
Please, feel free to discuss 0 motiv dueling ;)
 

DeletedUser16008

sok I understand I was in the middle of posting to bring it back to the main topic of Doc Bags when you locked it down thats all ;)

Anyways id better not take this one off topic so ill bid you a goodnight
 

DeletedUser20147

It's a hard thing to do, that's all I can say about zero mot dueling. I did it for a while, well, a few months at least and it almost burned me out of the game until I had the sense to change the routine and relax a bit. It's not for a casual player, or for someone who isn't able to log in all day, every day, many times a day ad infinitum - or spend the whole day playing The-West.
 

DeletedUser25480

i WAS a 0 mot dueler but i find it cowardly, if everyone did it then yes your points are valid but thats not the case, a large majority of people 0 mot duel will be exp duelers and thus have a major disadvantage in gear and levels.
 

DeletedUser

Yep, zero-mot dueling is not for the faint of heart. It requires a lot of maintenance to keep your mot low, but the big payoff is that you get to have a long dueling career. Dueling at 100% mot effectively ends your dueling career at 300 or less duels. Zero mot dueling lets you duel and duel and duel, which is great if that's what you really like about this game.

This game offers different ways to play, different things to play. Fort fighting, jobbing, questing, collecting, dueling. Of all of those, only dueling is penalized if you do it alot. Unlike jobs, where mot also exists, there's a buttload of different types of jobs. So, if you run low on mot with one job, just switch to another and you'll be doing that other job at 100% mot, for full benefit.

However, dueling is just dueling. If you're at zero mot with dueling, you can't switch to a different type of dueling. That's it. And because the Dodge, Aim, and HPs are the three main dueling skills, which do not apply themselves to "any other" jobs, duelers can't very well switch to doing jobs (lame ones, yes, but not profitable or xp drive ones). Only dueling penalizes you with dueling xp and eventually forces you to retire your dueling career.

Here's the thing. Zero mot dueling is the "result" of dueling a helluva lot. Whrn you duel alot, your mot goes down. Zero mot dueling is a consequence, a reward if you will, of being an active player, an active dueler. When I had a character who was always at zero mot, it was because I was dueling my arse off every friggin' day, penalizing other townships, tripping up efforts to take our forts by dueling forters, etc and so on.

Zero mot dueling is not a "wrong" way to play, it is the resultif being an active dueler. So, basically, duelers who don't have zero mot (or near-abouts) are part-timers, weekend warriors, not really very active in dueling. The real duelrs, the active duelrs, the career duelers, are zero mot duelers by default.

Also, a misconception exists. Zero mot duelers mostly duel people of their level or higher. And while some may prey on the cows (as does any dueler, regardless of mot), there are plenty of challenges out there, particularly since many duelers, soldiers, adventurers and workers specced to duel, don't actually duel much, so their mot is also low.

Truth be told if you truly enjoy dueling, like I did, the only means to duel throughout your time in The West, is to become a zero mot. Otherwise, as I previously indicated, you'll be forced to retire after about 300 duels (due to your dueling xp having skyrocketed and leaving you in the clouds, unable to duel anyone).
 
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DeletedUser32882

@Hellstromm
From all that u said about 0 mot i think onmly the part whit helping town mate's and in ff is true.Everything else i think is 0.
1-U say that 0 mot are the active player....omg how wrong u are.U have no idea how hard it is to stay after the top 3 duelers of a world.How everyone is looking to catch the other one,to hit him or just to w8 for him to go and work in nooby clothes.U say that ur active but all u do is just click on the Dueling button and hit the first nooby that u see.Very active.U don't know how much time is waisted just by walking on the map after the top 3 duelers...then u must be aware that they will not go in a another place.Hellstromm mate u don't know the meaning of active if u don't try to attack the top 3 duelers.
2-U say that 0 mot hit players the same lvl or smaller then they are most of the time.I really can't say that ur right about this one or that ur wrong.Just by looking at the number of there wings and loses i go for the *wrong*.But lets say that ur right.They hit bigger players they there lvl.What pleasure do u get from hitting a player that has nothing to do whit dueling?A player that has under 10 wins and over 500 loses?U feel good no?U showed him who's the top dog,the alpha male:)))
if a 0 mot player would attack only other 0 mot players then i would see from where the pleasure is coming,but beating the crap out of some workers who u hit every h until they got ko'd, sry mate but i don't find this amuzing at all.
As i said it...i get it staying 0 mot to help ur town members not to be attacked or to destroy as much as u can those nooby ff players, but to say that this is the right way to duel,to be active and the way that gives u more sadisfaction then the normal dueling mode i think is way overrated.
Is ur opinion i know as this is mine but pls don't tell me that u would rather love to see a win against a worker whit a ranch in his hands then against a top 3 dueler?Or u would?
 

DeletedUser

Ugh, reformat your post Hull, and I strongly urge you to carefully reread my post, as it seems you missed many of the critical elements that, quite frankly, pwn your silly arguments.

edit: Actually, let me address one silly argument you're presenting. In almost every instance where I was zero mot dueling, or when the bulk of my town was zero mot dueling, we had a "don't duel workers except in war" policy. This policy would be in effect to decrease the amount of hardship our workers would encounter (from retributive strikes). Invariably, it was non-zero mot duelers that would attack our workers, which would initiate a war and we would repeatedly pass out the entire town of the offending non-zero mot dueler until such time as we obtained a surrender, followed by a truce.

Your argument is invalid, in that you're making the false claim that only zero mot duelers duel weaker characters. The fact is, everyone endeavors to duel ftw (for the win). Not much logic in dueling to lose, now is there?
 
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DeletedUser32882

Hellstromm mate let me tell u what i expect from a DUEL....probably this way u will see what i'm talking about:
1- and the most important in my opinion is the exp.I never attack under 400 exp only and only if i get 400 from the top 3 duelers or if someone is feeling lonely and he really needs a new ''friend''.
2-the adrenaline burst that u get in the 10 minutes and in the last seconds of the duel.Consider me crazy but i tried ur 0 mot and the entire charm of dueling was gone.It was exactly like the difrence btw a job at picking cotton and one at grave robber.U don't expect anything from the cotton job,while from the grave robber u can w8 to see the job finished so u can open the report and see what u got.
3-The win----when u open the report and see that u beat the sucker and u know that ur top dog and ur opponent now suffers ...u can't explain this feeling in words mate.
4-Even the defeat is important to...it makes u push further and further until u finally bring the noob down and then is a period of 1-2 months of pure pleasure for u and suffering for him:D

Call me crazy or what ever u want but 0 motivation doesn't give 20% of the things i said early.It's just a game ,but i want to play it at my best all the time and u can't be the best if u don't beat the best.
Now which type of dueling is more intresting?Ur 0 mot in which u carefully keep ur dueling lvl down so i can duel low lvl noobs and ur 99% of the win or the way i duel?
 

DeletedUser

0% duellers may think they are 'kick-ass'. Others may think they are turtles who are afraid of losing in PvP. No matter how many threads and posts are started this difference will always remain - there will never be unanimity because all players are different. It's not due to a lack of understanding the duel system; it's far more fundamental than that. If anyone thinks they can prove otherwise I advise them to give up now, for they do not understand what they are up against.

I have tried 0%, and personally, I found it boring. Just one man's opinion. Relax.

@ Victor. Duel builds are not rocket science. Talk about 'training' and 'the fine art of duelling' seems a bit pretentious when we all know it's a matter of maxing out on Aim and Dodge, sticking what's left in auxiliary skills, displaying your biggest weapon and best clothes and rolling the dice. The most limiting factor in duel skill is how much of your build you want to leave for jobs/quests/ffs/crafting buffs etc. Nothing about duelling requires a lot of brain-power (as opposed to changing wardrobe, stance etc, which is just a function of being active).

@HS. I'm on well over 1k duels at 100% mot and still going strong. I disagree with your assessment that I should have burnt out after 300.
 

DeletedUser

Hi Eli, 300 duels at 100% mot was figured from an exponential I ended up with when doing calculations back in 2009. It is possible (unlikely, but possible) that the mechanics have changed, but i'm more inclimed to think it's due to the level bump (99 to 120), more higher level characters accumulated over the past 3 years, your not necessarily dueling at 100% all the time, and maybe even a little bit of low xp oppts. ;)

Anyway, so yes, my earlier number of 300 may be outdated. But, umm, hey Victor... how many duels do you and -Neo- have? hehe
 

DeletedUser16008

Huli,

I can't say I agree with you, on some worlds I duel for xp simply because I dont have the time to give and it happens by default, not that I rate the rankings as a duelers ability I could say this re xp dueling.

1 xp duelers are cowards who only duel a very small % of the world they are on.

2 The reason xp duelers do this is to avoid people like me kicking the crap out of them by staying out of thier range.

3 XP duelers are part timers, they have to be by default

4. XP duelers sleep one hell of a lot out of fear of others farming them

5 XP duelers are also opportunists that do not hesitate to hit you when your in crap clothing etc, hardly a challenge.

6 High xp duelers are selfish players that cant protect their town, don't/can't help the town when their workers get hit.

NOW READ THIS BIT before you get upset. Huli, you know me well and I dont believe those points are actually true for all xp duelers but they are for a lot and ive been/am an xp dueler and find theres not much challenge in rotating on the same old 20 or so targets. I also cant help protect people in my town/alliance and I don't like that.

I don't believe XP are cowards perse but nor do I think they are even close to being the best simple because they dont come up against many good duelers compared to the rest of the world they are on having a few targets means you are only good vs those others ... the 0 motive is open to probably 100 x more challengers

Low motive duelers by their nature will be looking to keep the motivation down, they HAVE to duel constantly and sometimes there isnt an option other than whos closest whatever the class. I will bet you anything you like that most 0 motives challenge themselves far far more than any xp dueler on far far harder targets ....

Sure the 0 motive may take out 3 or 4 easy targets but the other 7 or 8 A DAY will be duelers, also they will go after other 0 motives ..... an XP dueler will duel maybe 2 or 3 a day and thats it.

Im not saying how others play this game or should, Im simply saying the build is a great one and offers the opportunity to hit everyone sooner or later, only then can you say how good you really are vs an entire world rather than a select few.

I also detest the cowards it attracts but the opinion that because a high duel level cannot hit them they are cowards is just rubbish..... the same can be said for the high duel level player. The high Duel lvl player is the one who has made the mistake to the cost of his town, hes useless in protecting it.

Oh one more thing..... as a team player and a town member 0 motivation is THE best team play protector there possibly is.... Everyone is safe under his protection and as most worker hitters etc are not 0 motivators anyway but regular players getting a fast buck or xp they can and do take the revenge when all others cannot...

Just last night 3 campers in my town a lvl 85 dueler DL 170a lvl 110 worker turned dueler DL 135 and a pro lvl 120 dueler DL 221.... 2 hrs later two were KO and the third in bed hiding ( that was the ex worker ) My town and my workers/questers are safe again. My Job is done.... show me an xp that can do that or even a regular dueler.... they cant

Yup there are cowards at all places on this game but please don't tag low motivation with it anymore than anyplace else.

I do it because my work is on the computer I can.its the best for me, my town and my alliance and if anyone wants to duel bring it on there is no one I won't duel and I give that opportunity to maybe 1000 + on a world of 2500 at level 120 ... now you show me any other build that can do that... its the best team considerate build there is and by far the best way of knowing if your really any good rather than claiming to be vs just 20 or so.

Hellstromm is correct in his assessment on this, anyone who understands the game as a team player on the whole will also get it....

Every town should have at least one 0 motivator hes the best protector you can get if hes of the right calibre/ teamplayer he will grow and move up in level as your town does and youll never regret it.
 
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DeletedUser32882

Then the problem is at me.I have to stop playing this game like a hermit:)))).... and think about town members or allys to:))))
''
6 High xp duelers are selfish players that cant protect their town, don't/can't help the town when their workers get hit.''
Ur 100% right about this one:)))...seriosly...only if we have a bound whit that player we help him...but in any other cases we only go for the exp.
But the rest are not true .I mean the rest of things i don't see me doing any of those.I never sleep when i have 24 energy left and my hp is more then 800....i can't w8 for someone to hit me....and about the part time that u say si not 100% true...i mean i attack every h if i can but if the target goes to sleep then i start looking for soemone that gives me huge amount of exp and if i don't find it i stop dueling.But this doesn't mean i'm a part time dueler.I go to work and i w8 for other players to hit me.
But this is the things i do...i know that most of the top players duel and sleep most of the time but not all of them.They are a lot of them who stand there ground.
OMG...i really can't belive it how good u nail it at P6 :)))...i'm 100% sure that all the players that duel for huge exp are like that:)))
 

DeletedUser16008

@ Victor. Duel builds are not rocket science. Talk about 'training' and 'the fine art of duelling' seems a bit pretentious when we all know it's a matter of maxing out on Aim and Dodge, sticking what's left in auxiliary skills, displaying your biggest weapon and best clothes and rolling the dice. The most limiting factor in duel skill is how much of your build you want to leave for jobs/quests/ffs/crafting buffs etc. Nothing about duelling requires a lot of brain-power (as opposed to changing wardrobe, stance etc, which is just a function of being active).

Really ? Ill tell you why currently dueling isnt rocket science, its because I told everyone what to do with the last change re Aim, Dodge, others didnt believe me yet it turns out I was correct anyway. Prior to that my build was totally different and I still kicked total ass, better than presently in fact due to the luck rolls now with a melee build which btw is x2 as hard as using a gun and no i wasnt resist either.

I hear this arguement about dueling being simple blah blah not hard etc.... why then do my stats below on w10 speak for themselves ? its not a pay to buy skills world i hide from no one and the world had all the pro veterans on it all of which I have dueled. I have over 700 defences under my belt thats 1/5th of my total duels with others attacking me and lost no more than about 30 out of my total losses .. from the bottom to the very top of the rankings. If you think its that simple explain that one... everone knows when you attack you can pick on the easy targets but defending is a whole different ball game...LOL im not going to reveal the many little secrets I employ but it obviously isnt as simple as you like to think it is if you expect to win consistently. Thats just one reason people lose to me so much, they think its simple and underestimate me and then find out otherwise when they get trashed ;)

hehe Huli i was giving a counter example... I know how good you are and your no coward and that goes for many many i duel you know who you are...respect to all those who have honour and the guts to attack me.
 
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DeletedUser13388

I am and have been 0 motivation dueler, because :

1- to gain huge amount of cash and nice items
2- to bump up my town points with hundreds of wins
3- to protect my town from other 0 motivation duelers or level runners
4- to enjoy the hate mails

I am and have been EXP dueler, because :

1- i enjoy to be in the top 3 duelers
2- to protect my town from other high exp players
3- personally for me its more exciting and it is bringing much more fun to hunt or be hunted by the top 30 players
4- i got bored of 0 motivation dueling and free wins or i just dont have time

Examples.

On Colorado i was 0 motivation dueler, then i started to duel for EXP.Now i am 82 lvl with dueling lvl 116, but now i am back to 0 motivation again, because if i get 2-3 more dueling levels, i wont be able to duel an enemy 0 motivation dueler who is constantly attacking my town.

On Arizona i am #4 now and i am trying to climb #1 soon and i get huge fun there, cause we are dueling non stop there with the top 15 duelers in the ranking(for example today until i was attacking 2 of them, other 2 attacked me in my back and that is almost every day, we get 7-8 duels daily, but you never know what will happen).
All that sounds fun, but yesterday the other hat of my town set a topic that we should raid 2 of the top towns, but thanks to my huge dueling level, i was able to duel only 1 guy per town.

Both types of dueling have advantages and disadvantages, but i personally prefer the EXP dueling.Other prefer the 0 motivation.Different people, different views.

P.S.:

Duduie, i bet that the hardest words for you to say, are : "I am/was wrong" and "sorry" :)
 
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DeletedUser14006

I was rank one on Arizona when I hit level 120 and I got there faster than most at the detriment of my DL, from level 99 to around level 110 I dueled for XP like there was no tomorrow.

In the short term my victories were worthwhile, I got to level 120 first and was satisfied with that achievement, but in the long term it was by far the biggest mistake I have ever made in my 3 years playing on the west and one that led in part to me deleting that character.

I can 100% agree through experience with the point Victor made earlier in this thread, there came a point where he had an extremely limited target base for about 6 months, this exact same thing happened to me on Arizona.

Is this fun for a dueler not to be able to duel, hell no, the solution is to keep your DL low in order to maximise your target base and inevitably maintain a level of fun if dueling is mostly what you are about.

It is too easy for folk to criticise zero mot. duelers if they do not duel, dueling is what they enjoy about the game so they adapt to prolong this experience.

Should we apply an FL (Fort Level) for those who regularly engage in fort battles, when they achieve a certain amount of points through fort battles they cannot participate with folk who are not of an equal level.

Zero mot. dueling is about much more than bullying low level non duelers, if you are not willing to understand the implications of an unwanted high DL then you have no place in slamming those who do.
 

DeletedUser

I'll take Vic's test:
1 xp duelers are cowards who only duel a very small % of the world they are on..
I'm down to about 100 targets. It's enough for me.
2 The reason xp duelers do this is to avoid people like me kicking the crap out of them by staying out of thier range.
It's nice to know I'll never have to meet a zero-mot again, but not necessarily for the reason you suppose.:)
3 XP duelers are part timers, they have to be by default
Part-timer and proud of it. Well, I have a RL that keeps me pretty busy too.
4. XP duelers sleep one hell of a lot out of fear of others farming them
'Tis the opposite for me. I love being attacked as 50% of the time it's free exp & even $$$. My experience of zero-mot-hunting is that THEY sleep more as they can't risk being dueled when offline/afk and motivation creeps above 0%.
5 XP duelers are also opportunists that do not hesitate to hit you when your in crap clothing etc, hardly a challenge.
That's me. Probably true of anyone who duels ftw. Although if they only have a pillow I like to beat them with a pillow - and people are so grateful about it too!
6 High xp duelers are selfish players that cant protect their town, don't/can't help the town when their workers get hit.
I'm definitely selfish. I used to hate those whiney "avenge me, sniff, sniff, I was offline with my life savings in my pocket" forum posts. As if I had nothing better to do!
Really ? Ill tell you why currently dueling isnt rocket science, its because I told everyone what to do.....
You really believe that, don't you?
I wonder what everyone did before I invented the internet.:D

im not going to reveal the many little secrets I employ but it obviously isnt as simple as you like to think it is
Yarrrr! Cop out!
 
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