Leadership bonus effect on damage

  • Thread starter DeletedUser35262
  • Start date

DeletedUser35262

Hello everyone, let me quickly introduce myself. I'm kraters and I'm a player from the Dutch server. Our forum is almost dead so I thought it might be better if I suggested my idea here.


Proposal
The leadership bonus of soldiers should also increase their damage output instead of only a small hit-and dodge chance bonus.

Current Workaround
There is none. Soldiers with low HP and high leadership are completely outclassed bij the workers and duellers.

Details
This idea is all about variety.. I'll try to explain this by comparing workers, duellers and soldiers ( not with adventurers because their ability is to unique) to 3 standard builds.

HP build: Duellers can run a build with high amounts of HP. They are obviously outclassed by soldiers if you look at the ability to survive. But they can combat this by getting some critical hits and thus dealing more damage than a soldier with the same stats.

Workers: They are also able to run a build with high amounts of HP. In general they will survive a little less long than soldiers, but the increased hitting and dodging chances make up for that.

Soldiers: This is obviously the main ( and probably) only build that soldiers can effectively run at the moment. They get twice the amount of HP and therefore they can survive very long.

Skill build: This build is all about hitting as many shots as possible. Duellers will benefit from this kind of build because the more shots they can hit, the more critical hits they will produce.

Workers can get crazy stats by optimizing their hitting chances. With this build, a worker will barely miss any shots especially if they stand on a tower.

Soldiers: This is were the problem all starts. There is absolutely no reason to run a full on skill build with a soldier. They have even the chances of a dueller ( bar a little from regular leadership bonus) but without the ability to produce critical hits. The same comparison can be made to the workers' class. Workers will have 40% ( premium) more chances to hit whilst producing the same damage.

Leadership: Duellers can run a full on leadership build to maximize damage output. A high general damage + the ability to crit can deal loads of damage.

Workers can also run a full on leadership build. They might not be able to crit, but they still profit from their increased hitting chances meaning they can produce high damaging shots almost every turn.

Soldiers again are outclassed by both these characters. The soldier got the same chances as a dueller ( again barring the few regular leader bonus) but they miss out on crits. A soldier will also have the same damage output as a workers, but with 40% less hitting chances.

Now someone will say that a leadership soldier will offer his teammates an added bonus which is completely true. But the difference in leadership points between black bart and hombre isn't even 100 points. So even on that point a soldier should always carry the HP set. And to be fair, the normal leadership bonus is nowhere near good enough.

We make the calc of an estimated leadership build off 600 leadership, 1100 HP and 350 average damage. We'll compare the damage difference if we would implement the 1,5x leadership

Dueller: 350+(350x600)/1100 = 540
Soldier: 350+(350x900)/1100 = 636

We do the same maths as in calc 1, but now we have a level 150 ( = 1590 HP) with 920 leadership and 500 average damage
Dueller: 500+(500x920)/1590= 789
Soldier: 500+(500x1380)/1590= 933
These damage differences are very minimal. In general we could say that a soldier will hit 100 more damage every shot if this would be implemented. If you compare that to a dueller, the dueller will still deal more damage ( generaly speaking) because statistically speaking, they will hit 2 crits in 10 shots which will be more than the 1000 damage that the soldier dealt.

Now let's compare to the worker. In the last damage example, the soldier dealt 18% more damage than the worker. Now considering that the worker has a 40% higher hitting chance, the worker will still have a little edge upon the soldier.

Lastly I would like to show that this idea won't make soldiers overpowered.
We take the same level 150, we'll give him 1000 leadership and 12000 HP with a average weapon damage of 500
Damage not implemented : 500+(500x1000)/12000 = 541
Damage bonus implemented : 500+(500x1500)/12000 = 562

As you see, a soldier will still have to choose between these 2 builds. In general, a soldier with high amounts of HP will be better than a soldier with full leadership and no HP.

Abuse Prevention
Leadership damage bonus will also be spread to your surrounding teammates. The soldier should remain a team player + this will also open more strategies like a leadership soldier on place 5 on the tower instead of a fitting character.


Summary
This idea will give soldiers the chance to run something else than always the same HP build. I think this will make the game a little less stellar and offer some variety. The leadership soldier with increased damage will by no means be the best character build, but it's something cool to play with and we might see a few more of these builds if the idea gets through.

Administration
Does this idea meet the Ideas Guidelines & Criteria? Yes
Does this idea appear on any of the Previously Suggested Ideas List? No

I would like to thanks you for reading if you got this far. Please discuss this idea and give suggestions. I'm open to hear new things and to improve the game.
 

DeletedUser34408

That's insane, Soldiers have enough Fort and Dueling bonuses with their class, if anything they need to lose a bonus or 2 and other classes need a facelift, especially for dueling, 10% aim dueling bonus, 10% dodging dueling bonus, 25% appearance dueling bonus for the other 3 respective classes (only 1 of the 3 for each respective class).
 

DeletedUser35262

That's insane, Soldiers have enough Fort and Dueling bonuses with their class, if anything they need to lose a bonus or 2 and other classes need a facelift, especially for dueling, 10% aim dueling bonus, 10% dodging dueling bonus, 25% appearance dueling bonus for the other 3 respective classes (only 1 of the 3 for each respective class).

I'm only talking about Fort battles here. Duels are something totally different. Which bonus do you think they should lose because I agree that it's a dominant class, but I also think it's a bit one-sided.
 

DeletedUser34408

I think the Fort bonuses with the recent changes to the Workers Fort bonuses are fairly well balanced now for all 4 classes. The dueling bonuses need amending.
 

DeletedUser37451

I think the Fort bonuses [...] are fairly well balanced now for all 4 classes.
I disagree, the fort bonus of adventurers are totally crap. As a "ghost" you might help the team but it does not result in a better reward at the end. Duellers, soldiers and workers get easier and more XP/bonds etc as adventurers.
IF a class needs an adjustement of the fort bonus it is the adventurer class.
 

DeletedUser35262

I think the Fort bonuses with the recent changes to the Workers Fort bonuses are fairly well balanced now for all 4 classes. The dueling bonuses need amending.

Think you miss the point here. I'm not talking about balance ( as i mentioned, if this idea would get trough, it would not make the soldier class stronger). It's about variety and how you're not forced to run a certain build on a chosen character.

I disagree, the fort bonus of adventurers are totally crap. As a "ghost" you might help the team but it does not result in a better reward at the end. Duellers, soldiers and workers get easier and more XP/bonds etc as adventurers.
IF a class needs an adjustement of the fort bonus it is the adventurer class.

I think that adventurers are highly underrated as a class. Fort battles are not about personal succes, but about the team effort. The ability to block sectors and keeping the opponent trapped is key in a lot off battles. I agree that they don't get the value they deserve after the battle, but you can't say that their bonus is bad.
 
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DeletedUser34408

Rastlos, agree with your assessment regarding awards for advents but other than that, it's fairly even in my opinion.

Think you miss the point here. I'm not talking about balance ( as i mentioned, if this idea would get trough, it would not make the soldier class stronger). It's about variety and how you're not forced to run a certain build on a chosen character.

I am not convinced with your argument, it doesn't mean that it's not a good idea, just an idea that I am personally not in favor of, other opinions may differ. Good luck in your endeavor.
 
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DeletedUser35780

Nonsense. At the same leadership soldiers and workers had the same increase in dmg. The problem is that soldiers are advantaged in calculation of hp . Therefore will have a lower dmg.
 

DeletedUser35262

Nonsense. At the same leadership soldiers and workers had the same increase in dmg. The problem is that soldiers are advantaged in calculation of hp . Therefore will have a lower dmg.
Soldiers only get boosted HP by adding skills on HP itself. If you don't put any skill on HP, you will have the same HP as any other class without points on HP
 

DeletedUser22685

Anyone with pure leadership is a njub anyway, so it doesn't bother me which class is at a disadvantage when it comes to using that build.
 

DeletedUser35340

I play a soldier, a Dueller and a Advent in separate worlds. The issue for me is less about balance, as I feel that the recent changes have done a good job. However, in many worlds the problem is getting people to Fort Fight, such as in Dakota. Once one alliance becomes dominant.
 
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