Issues with Losing Dueling Experience

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DeletedUser37520

I'm level 142 at Fairbank with a dueling level of 241 (second highest is at 222) which had led me to several times not having anyone on the entire map to duel. What's the point of being specced as a dueller if I don't have anyone to actually duel? Anyways, InnoGames was clever enough to introduce a system where you could lose dueling level by either 1) not duel at all or 2) lose duels on purpose (good system by the way, losing duels to be able to duel totally makes sense). Well, here's the problems. The first method sucks donkey ass since I'll get knocked out every third day by duellers actively seeking revenge when I'm no longer specced for duelling. I can't even knock myself out because that would cancel the experience reduction. It's also incredibly slow, 3% per week (after 45 days of no duelling) is laughable.

The second method, losing duels on purpose, is beyond idiotic and it's actively punishing the players with the highest dueling level. Anyways, say that I wanted to lose duels on purpose. How would that work out? Well, lets find out. I actually lost a duel today, this is the lost dueling experience. http://i.imgur.com/TZshoYc.png This duel was against the person with the second highest dueling level on the entire server and I lost 90 dueling experience! 90! How am I supposed to lose dueling levels when I currently lose 90 dueling experience as maximum? You couldn't at least have made it so that the experience I lose is based on the experience my opponent gained? That would actually have made sense, since it's reasonable to assume that I would lose more skill if I lost against a bad opponent than an actual good opponent. Now when I lose a duel against somebody with a dueling level of 176 I lose the insane amount of 9 dueling experience. 9? Seriously?

Last but not least, what the is the bull that's honourable duels? You're encouraging me to actively lose duels on purpose, and you're talking about honour? That isn't honour, it's disgraceful.

Ohh, right. Question thread. What are you suggestions? And you Inno, could you just fix your failed system and manually lower my dueling level? Or at least introduce some product in the Union Pacific Shop (Yagé doesn't count) that allows us to lower our dueling level faster. Anyways, I'm probably going back to trading. Every third day I'll knock myself out against a dueler and lose 9-90 dueling experience. I guess I can come back to dueling either when a considerable amount has reached my dueling level (heh, a year maybe until somebody even reaches 241?) or until my dueling level has decreased enough from this one duel every third day.
 
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asdf124

Well-Known Member
I lost 3 dueling experience against someone who is higher in levels but way lower in dueling level.

DL 450 versus 323

He won 5.3k exp, and 1545 dueling exp
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
In more than one year since I stopped dueling in AZ my DL dropped from 450 to 342. Now I have almost 8 pages of dueling opponents. 31 players I can duel! Some of them are migrants from W1 or there would be only 20 or so.
The system sucks, and what's worse - it is not likely that it will change... What was twice a "browser game of the year" is now a mockery.
 

lulumcnoob

Well-Known Member
Lack of players is the real issue, not the duelling system. It actually has the best formula it ever had, for lower levels. At high levels, whoever has the better upgraded tombola set, wins.

We used to have 17 million players, no one ever had no one to duel. Then tombolas happened, 16.5m+ players quit, and the game is now a sad mockery of its former award winning calibre state. And no one seems to want to fix it.
 

DeletedUser37191

[...]Every third day I'll knock myself out against a dueler and lose 9-90 dueling experience. I guess I can come back to dueling either when a considerable amount has reached my dueling level (heh, a year maybe until somebody even reaches 241?) or until my dueling level has decreased enough from this one duel every third day.
Not that I enjoy helping duelers, I dislike that part of the game. But you can actually knock yourself out every 24 hours (you are protected for 72 hours, but you can duel after 24h), and it costs only 1nrg to duel then.
 

DeletedUser33353

Meh....I am still a top rated dueler. The honor thing has never had any bearing on the game, just a thought from the devs.
I will always stay at level 450(level 749 before the whiners got their way).
Bolters? Just duel. This game is duel based. It was only after forting and whiners came into play that the dueling got watered down(not going to comment on the multi duel formula changes throughout the years, that would take to long.).
As always, keep the hammer on an empty.......but, be able to back up the next five shots ;)
Bonus points to anyone that gets that.
 

DeletedUser22685

The loss of duel experience was introduced as part of a series of updates aimed to remove the necessity of 0 mot duelling. In an ideal world, the fact that duel levels are now capped at 450 would cause everybody to duel regularly (ie. without intentionally lowering their motivation) and high level duellers would never have to worry about running out of targets.

However, predictably, the vast majority of 0 mots decided that they'd rather continue to work around the system rather than change their ways, and the updates didn't have the intended effect. Perhaps it needs to be looked at again, but each time Inno tries to change anything involving the duel system dozens of people visit the forum for the first time ever and rage about it.

The lack of targets at high duelling levels is not a new issue. It's been around since the very beginning of the game. At least now there is a level cap which combats the issue somewhat, but the severe lack of players these days and the fact that people continue to 0 mot duel despite it theoretically having no advantages means the situation really isn't any better.

We used to have 17 million players, no one ever had no one to duel. Then tombolas happened, 16.5m+ players quit, and the game is now a sad mockery of its former award winning calibre state. And no one seems to want to fix it.
Pfft, that number is such a gross and obvious exaggeration that I can't believe they expected to get away with listing it on the homepage :p

That's just a tally of every single account that's ever been created on any language server over the last 7.5 years. There was never anywhere near 17 million accounts, let alone 17 million individual people, active in-game at any given time, even before tombolas came around and supposedly caused 97% of the game's players to quit. I hate tombolas as much as anyone, but I'm not going to give them that much credit :p
 
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asdf124

Well-Known Member
The loss of duel experience was introduced as part of a series of updates aimed to remove the necessity of 0 mot duelling. In an ideal world, the fact that duel levels are now capped at 450 would cause everybody to duel regularly (ie. without intentionally lowering their motivation) and high level duellers would never have to worry about running out of targets.

However, predictably, the vast majority of 0 mots decided that they'd rather continue to work around the system rather than change their ways, and the updates didn't have the intended effect. Perhaps it needs to be looked at again, but each time Inno tries to change anything involving the duel system dozens of people visit the forum for the first time ever and rage about it.

The lack of targets at high duelling levels is not a new issue. It's been around since the very beginning of the game. At least now there is a level cap which combats the issue somewhat, but the severe lack of players these days and the fact that people continue to 0 mot duel despite it theoretically having no advantages means the situation really isn't any better.
Hence why I suggested and got red repped for a system which kills zero motivation duelists.

I think that zero motivation duelers are venom to this game.

The idea to simply have lower motivation lowers your skill points meaning that you get sluggish if you go too low.

It would be applied to resistance skills too.

Inno decided upon a pacifist decision and it was a double edged sword.

This idea is double edged if zero motivation cries about such system. I'd think of em as fools and very selfish if they ever cry about it.

Also, if they duel a lower dueling level, they may get negative experience points as a super zero motivation killer.

Zero motivation duelers should grow up and take responsibility for ones own actions. Yet, they always complain saying that killing zero motivation duelers isn't a solution.
 

DeletedUser37451

The loss of duel experience was introduced as part of a series of updates aimed to remove the necessity of 0 mot duelling.
The loss of duel experience was the biggest mistake Inno did with this update! And open speaking, everybody knew in advance, that this would NOT reduce actions of ZMDs.

[...] and high level duellers would never have to worry about running out of targets.
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
It was predictable from the very first introducing of duell experience loss on beta that most of the players with high duell lvl and not interested in duels anymore will loose duels on purpose to reduce their duel lvl.

However, predictably, the vast majority of 0 mots decided that they'd rather continue to work around the system rather than change their ways, and the updates didn't have the intended effect.
This was told Inno from the very beginning but as usual they didn't listen to the communities.

Perhaps it needs to be looked at again, but each time Inno tries to change anything involving the duel system dozens of people visit the forum for the first time ever and rage about it.
Perhaps? For sure! :p
The game mechanic of duel experience loss by loosing a duel must be canceled!

The lack of targets at high duelling levels is not a new issue. It's been around since the very beginning of the game. At least now there is a level cap which combats the issue somewhat, but the severe lack of players these days and the fact that people continue to 0 mot duel despite it theoretically having no advantages means the situation really isn't any better.
The lack of targets for high duel lvls got worse than before! As a high lvl duelist you are FORCED by Inno's stupid decisions to reduce your own duel lvl on purpose (either by non duelling for months or by active loosing duels on purpose). Otherwise you have less targets than before the update last summer.
 
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lulumcnoob

Well-Known Member
Pfft, that number is such a gross and obvious exaggeration that I can't believe they expected to get away with listing it on the homepage :p
16m Romanian multis and 500k real accounts then.

even before tombolas came around and supposedly caused 97% of the game's players to quit. I hate tombolas as much as anyone, but I'm not going to give them that much credit :p
Most of the people I knew that have quit either cite real life being too busy, or tombolas as the reason they left...
 

DeletedUser37191

16m Romanian multis and 500k real accounts then.



Most of the people I knew that have quit either cite real life being too busy, or tombolas as the reason they left...
Nah, probably most of those "17 million" drop out during the basic quest.
Just look at how many players there are in the jobs near Old Hamburg that we have to do for that basic quest...
In Galvestone, weirdly, it's in the hundreds (http://prntscr.com/bbiq7a as an example, but many jobs nearby have 100+ players)
Though in other worlds it's in the tens still...

BTW, while checking this, I just realized that Old Hamburd is in a (slightly) different position between CO (and AZ) versus in Galvestone. Was that intentional?:blink:
 

DeletedUser22685

Hence why I suggested and got red repped for a system which kills zero motivation duelists.

I think that zero motivation duelers are venom to this game.

The idea to simply have lower motivation lowers your skill points meaning that you get sluggish if you go too low.

It would be applied to resistance skills too.

Inno decided upon a pacifist decision and it was a double edged sword.

This idea is double edged if zero motivation cries about such system. I'd think of em as fools and very selfish if they ever cry about it.

Also, if they duel a lower dueling level, they may get negative experience points as a super zero motivation killer.

Zero motivation duelers should grow up and take responsibility for ones own actions. Yet, they always complain saying that killing zero motivation duelers isn't a solution.
If you're looking to cause a huge portion of the remaining players to quit, that's a great way to do it. Compromise has been the primary goal of the most recent duel updates, as duelling is an issue which concerns two clearly divided parties. You can't just kill off an entire playstyle immediately, so the devs have been trying to introduce changes that cater to both parties (0 mots and exp duellers) in some way whilst trying to make the duel system better as a whole and the game more enjoyable for non-duellers as well.

Note the key word trying before anyone tries to attack me. I'm not giving any of my opinions here, just stating reasons.

The loss of duel experience was the biggest mistake Inno did with this update! And open speaking, everybody knew in advance, that this would NOT reduce actions of ZMDs.
Only because people decided to yet again use a feature for a purpose other than its intended one in order to make the game easier for them. Funnily enough, it's the same group of people who have been doing that all along with duel motivation. I'm not going to argue with you about the fact that we knew it would happen; I know enough about 0 mot duellers and player habits in general to have seen it coming.

Allowing only defensive losses to reduce exp could be a partial solution. However, with the player numbers so drastically low these days I think the time to look at the concept of duel levels and their place in the game may finally be near.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:
It was predictable from the very first introducing of duell experience loss on beta that most of the players with high duell lvl and not interested in duels anymore will loose duels on purpose to reduce their duel lvl.
Doesn't make much sense to me for someone with no interest in duels to waste their time running around losing them on purpose. Seems much more logical to keep your high duel level and only be at the mercy of a few targets rather than lowering it and becoming open game for the vastly more numerous mid-levels.

Perhaps? For sure! :p
The game mechanic of duel experience loss by loosing a duel must be canceled!
I really don't believe that's the biggest issue here. I'm not going to say that nothing needs to change, but removing that feature alone won't fix anything.

The lack of targets for high duel lvls got worse than before! As a high lvl duelist you are FORCED by Inno's stupid decisions to reduce your own duel lvl on purpose (either by non duelling for months or by active loosing duels on purpose). Otherwise you have less targets than before the update last summer.
And this is ridiculous in itself. All of a sudden top ranked duellers went from being able to duel maybe the top twenty ranked duellers in their world, to having anyone with a duel level as low as 321 within their range. The people who were just below the top tier also got the aforementioned high ranking duellers dragged back down into their range.

If you're a high ranking dueller and have less targets than before, it's solely because the game has less players. That and the fact that njubs decided to go out and purposely lose duels and cling to their 0 mot status, which is disappointing, but like I said, should have been expected.

Most of the people I knew that have quit either cite real life being too busy, or tombolas as the reason they left...
Yeah, and I can cite tombolas as being the reason I originally quit and the reason I'm still semi-retired. I wasn't disagreeing that they're rubbish, I just couldn't let a serious mention of that 17 million player tally go by without commenting on it :p
 
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DeletedUser35120

Most of the people I knew that have quit either cite real life being too busy, or tombolas as the reason they left...
Some people quit the game over the 2.0 update too.. which to me, was kind of dumb though.
 
Old thread but......You can blame me or ZMD I guess, seeing far as I know I invented 0 motiv dueling way back on W1 while in TSC and took it to W9 where we made the very first ZMD town Mercenary Outpost, kinda hard nowadays but still managed to get to 100 wins before lvl 25 on Juarez this week... now going to try 100 before lvl 20 on Houston but with only 20 targets and a lot of overpower kit itll be hard going ... but its a challenge and something to do ehy ho.. off to robbing we go.... still 1% and having fun getting mails from victims..
 

Ms. Demeanor

Active Member
how does zero motivation dueling work?

and I thought the way to drop your duel level was to lose to the lowest duel level players you could not the highest
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
how does zero motivation dueling work?
duel as much as possible, and your motivation drops. today this is limited and you can't reach 0% motivation like we could in the past.
at that time, NPC duels also counted, so you could duel NPCs, your duel motivation would drop, and when you would duel a real player, you wouldn't get any dueling experience, your DL wouldn't increase and you would have more (and easier) targets.
if I'm not mistaking, today the lower limit for duel motivation is set to 3% or 5%. it's been years since I tried that...
 

lulumcnoob

Well-Known Member
if I'm not mistaking, today the lower limit for duel motivation is set to 3% or 5%. it's been years since I tried that...
it's 10%, but it seemingly takes days to raise your duel level at 10%
So you have two options if you want to have enough people to duel: keep your motivation low so you can compete against equal level players, or keep your player level low so you can duel for experience and rankings, but you get trashed by high level berry pickers due to how sets work in this game now. I wish there was a duel motivation de-buff, or a duel level cap at 300, or that we had classic west back.
 
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it's 10%, but it seemingly takes days to raise your duel level at 10%
So you have two options if you want to have enough people to duel: keep your motivation low so you can compete against equal level players, or keep your player level low so you can duel for experience and rankings, but you get trashed by high level berry pickers due to how sets work in this game now. I wish there was a duel motivation de-buff, or a duel level cap at 300, or that we had classic west back.
Been testing the motivation thing, started dueling at lvl 12 and after 137 duels in a week, keeping it absolutely at the 10% minimum motivation, maximising the low xp targets first every day, doing the lowest xp jobs to unlock for shamen which is necessary to move those badly needed couple of AP and SP. I am just by dueling at 10% and forced daily log ins at lvl 25 with a dueling level now of 33.This allows a lvl 43 to attack me so im giving way to at least 18 AP and 54 SP of any potential lvl 43 wth kits and the % rise of them as you increase lvls its quite a difference, not including on a point buying world it can ramp up even more...its not even worth a potion to lose 10% and drop a measly 3 DL for a few days. Stuff the honourable duel thing i simply dont care so I beat the same ones bloody with my fists every day so they cant KO before going out robbing the rest. Besides I've a wife, 17 kids, a sheep to feed and no one carrys much cash around anymore either, hard times for a quest hating highwayman :roll:

The only solution long term is to just get the best dueling kit, upgrade it as much as possible and destroy the poor mugs of similar lvl even more mercilessly while dealing with njubs outgunning and outpointing you when an attack occurs. Im not complaining but why would any regular player looking to the 2 duels a day for tasks bother dueling much anymore ? of course the answer is they probably dont. Only the hardcore or stupid would and do.. i fall into one of those although im not sure which one...On the good side angry hate mails are still a thing and ive the largest bounty on the world on my head already... not bad for a weeks messing about, shows I havnt lost my touch while spreading the love and bullets around :-D
 
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