Improvements to duelling

[DeletedUser23437]

thats why I think each class should be give a different 'point' value. so instead of 10 wins to get 5 bonds, you need 100pts (10pts/dueler, 7pts/soldier, 4pts/advent, 1pt/worker) meaning you need to win 10 duels with duelers or 100 duels vs workers...


Edit:

Been thinking and talking a bit more about this, and think the dueling pts should be based on the person you are facings win ratio..

so, if I face a dueler, with say 219 wins/18 loses and win, I would gain 201 pts in my ranking
if I faced an adventurer with 1300 wins/130 loses and win, I would gain 1170 pts in my rank
if I faced a soldier with 125 wins/199 loses and win, I would lose 74pts, lowering my rank score

with this pt system, those out looking for an easy kill of non-dueling workers, adventures, soldiers, or even duelers, would most likely face a player with more loses then wins, and would net them a negative score on the dueling leader board.
and those who are looking to be the 'best' dueler; gaining prizes of bonds, gold or gear, would search out those who have more wins then loses, so the get a gain in points on the dueling leader board....

this would encourage those wanting to duel to find good opponents and not go after easy targets, such as those only here for questing or ffing

 

[DeletedUser30224]

All your doing my encouraging duels for wins and damage and ko's is encouraging easy duelling, and theres enough people that only duel easy targets now.

Quite correctly pointed out. I did not miss the whole point, but wanted to reward gradual performance and got carried away. A second look at my post and even I cannot believe how far off I shot

However this here fella ↓↓↓↓↓ has a golden post.

thats why I think each class should be give a different 'point' value. so instead of 10 wins to get 5 bonds, you need 100pts (10pts/dueler, 7pts/soldier, 4pts/advent, 1pt/worker) meaning you need to win 10 duels with duelers or 100 duels vs workers...


Edit:

Been thinking and talking a bit more about this, and think the dueling pts should be based on the person you are facings win ratio..

so, if I face a dueler, with say 219 wins/18 loses and win, I would gain 201 pts in my ranking
if I faced an adventurer with 1300 wins/130 loses and win, I would gain 1170 pts in my rank
if I faced a soldier with 125 wins/199 loses and win, I would lose 74pts, lowering my rank score

with this pt system, those out looking for an easy kill of non-dueling workers, adventures, soldiers, or even duelers, would most likely face a player with more loses then wins, and would net them a negative score on the dueling leader board.
and those who are looking to be the 'best' dueler; gaining prizes of bonds, gold or gear, would search out those who have more wins then loses, so the get a gain in points on the dueling leader board....

this would encourage those wanting to duel to find good opponents and not go after easy targets, such as those only here for questing or ffing

Like this, like this allot.

 

[DeletedUser34767]

The only thing you might want to consider is setting a floor of 0 points when defending. You would still gain any positive points earned in defense.

That way competing towns could not send their 5 win / 250 loss workers to attack and intentionally lose, just to inflict a -245 point loss other towns competitors.

 

[DeletedUser16628]

]Hey DOQ that makes more sense than almost anything I've read in this forum in a while.

.

you miss the point
Anyone and i mean absolutely anyone can win 20 duels in a day if they want to. But it doesnt mean nothing. Duelling other people that duel to rise in the rankings does mean something though.
It gives the rankings meaning which they dont have now. (if you take away duelling levels as well)
All your doing is encouraging duels for wins and damage and ko's is encouraging easy duelling, and theres enough people that only duel easy targets now.

I'm all for it 100% prefer to be challenged and rewarded for the tougher duels as opposed to dueling cupcakes.

 

[DeletedUser23437]

The only thing you might want to consider is setting a floor of 0 points when defending. You would still gain any positive points earned in defense.

That way competing towns could not send their 5 win / 250 loss workers to attack and intentionally lose, just to inflict a -245 point loss other towns competitors.

this would not effect you, as you would only lose or gain points based on who you attack, not by who attacks you, the idea is, your points you gain or lose are only given when you attack and win.
So in your example, you would not lose 245 pts, only if you turned around and attacked the person back and won, would you get the -245...

 

[DeletedUser30224]

Why would you loose points? If you loose either in offense or defense you get nothing, but if you win in either offense or defense you get the difference in points.

To make it fair keep Duel lvl and win/loss ration. When you win over someone with higher duel lvl, you get experience. If the same guy has high win/loss ration you take into consideration the higher number and apply it to the duel report. Therefore if the challenged player has smaller duel level than you and a negative win/loss ration, you get some pitiful points only.

The goal then would be to duel guys with high duel lvl or high win/loss ratio. I realize that win/loss ratio is almost always smaller than the experience you get from defeating a towering duel lvl, but that will only encourage 0 mots to raise their lvl (the exp you receive is added to your duel lvl). Beside that, if you duel someone with 0 motivation you will always get the player's win/loss difference in points, not to mention that your 0 mot duelling is more or less useless since anyone can duel you that is in your lvl.

 

[DeletedUser23437]

Why would you loose points? If you loose either in offense or defense you get nothing, but if you win in either offense or defense you get the difference in points.

To make it fair keep Duel lvl and win/loss ration. When you win over someone with higher duel lvl, you get experience. If the same guy has high win/loss ration you take into consideration the higher number and apply it to the duel report. Therefore if the challenged player has smaller duel level than you and a negative win/loss ration, you get some pitiful points only.

The goal then would be to duel guys with high duel lvl or high win/loss ratio. I realize that win/loss ratio is almost always smaller than the experience you get from defeating a towering duel lvl, but that will only encourage 0 mots to raise their lvl (the exp you receive is added to your duel lvl). Beside that, if you duel someone with 0 motivation you will always get the player's win/loss difference in points, not to mention that your 0 mot duelling is more or less useless since anyone can duel you that is in your lvl.

The idea with the negative number, is to discourage those looking for easy kills, those who really don't want to duel and are here for questing or ffing only...
example; you think this worker would be nice and easy, he has been working on mining coal for days and he has only 10 wins and 200 loses in dueling... means he got lucky those 10 times, or had just wanted to check out dueling a few times and then really gave it up, and most likely has become easy food for some duelers out there.
In your case, I could duel him and take his cash, gaining really nothing but another won duel, raising me in the overall duel ranking, but am I really better then the guy who maybe dueled and won against a soldier with 200 duel wins and 10 loses?? we both one a duel??
Now in my proposal, with no 'duel level', if I dueled same worker and my friend dueled the soldier, I would get -190pts toward my duel rank, and my friend would get +190pts... yes we both won our duels, but I went after someone that really had no chance to fight back, and my friend went after a real challange....
(again, note that points are only given to the attacker and only if he wins in my proposal)

 

[DeletedUser30224]

...
(again, note that points are only given to the attacker and only if he wins in my proposal)

I think you missed the point I was trying to make: The duel ranking is represented by experience gained from duels, not by win/loss ratio. Therefore if this here fella wants to duel that poor worker, he will receive a miserable amount of points towards his awesomeness, especially if our fella has 0 motivation. However, because our fella has a good win/loss ratio, he will be attractive to other duelers even though his duel lvl is small. Not to mention that his chance of winning any monthly duel rewards are nill.

This would encourage players to search for hard wins, better duel experience, increasing their duel lvl with the process. And 0 mot2 will still be attractive to other duellers because their win/loss difference is so high.

 

[DeletedUser]

I like the ideas above, but, isn't there a lot of risk of abuse with the suggestions and there are a few other problems I see.

1) If you can only get points from duelling people with good ratio win/loss, then it is easy to pre-arrange duels and get massive bonuses and rig the system.

2) If you look through the stats, within most duelling levels, there are not really enough people with good positive ratios of wins and losses. Due to the loss of interest in duelling, a lot of former duellers (who are now fort fighters) will get a lot of attention and it will increase the camping of some players simply due to the lack of decent targets to get points from. This will quite possibly lead to more people self-KO'ing on jobs, thus leading to even fewer decent targets for duellers to get points from, leading to more zero mot duellers just hitting the "cupcakes".

3) If duel levels remain, the "best duellers" with the highest exp and duel levels will still be un-duellable by most thus limiting their options to join this scheme.


My suggestion would be to have a re-setting duel level every month.

On the first day of the month at 12:00am server time, the duel levels and "monthly duel ranking" would reset to your actual level and null stats and the competition would start.

I would suggest that initially, you can only duel people who are -20% of your actual level, for example, level 120 could only duel down to level 96.

For every duel win, you earn + 0.5 points to your duel level (which started at your actual level) and for every loss, you would lose - 1 level, thus allowing the serious duellers to move up the table and end up only being able to duel each other, and those who are really opting out would end up going down the table, thus only being able to be duelled by lower levels (who have fewer AP & SP) with each loss, and thus being protected from the serious duellers. Duellers would be able to challenge any player that has a higher duel level than themselves but only those -20% of their duel level).

This would lead to duellers not needing to be zero motivation as there is a monthly reset of the duel level, and, it would allow people to opt in and out of this due to the serious duellers being out of their range very quickly.

Normal duel stats would still accumulate, and, we would find that less people who do not wish to be duelled would be left alone, or, only hit by people with considerably less skills than their own. We would also need a new ranking table with every player in it so it is easy to find other to duel in your current duel level (this should be either in the rankings or a better place would be a new tab in the duel window).

Scenario 1: A Level 120 dueller (player A)

1st Month: level 120 actual level and 120 duel level.

For 10 days, the dueller wins 20 duels per day = 0.5 x 20 x 10 = 100 points therefore duelling level would be 220 after 10 days. Player A's duel range would therefore be 176 and above after 10 days.

Scenario 2: A level 120 Fort fighter (player B)

If there were level 120 players who don't want to join in and they lost 1 duel each day...

= 120 - 10 = duel level 110 after 10 days

If the level 120 dueller (player A) was to try to duel the player opted out (player B) they could duel them on day 1, day 2 and day 3, before their duel level went too high towards the end of day 3. By the end of day 3, player A would only be able to duel people of level 120 and above. Therefore, most players will be safe from serious duellers after 3-4 days depending upon the dueller's activity and how many times those opting out get duelled and lose.

I do think that 0.5 should be added for a win regardless of whether this player was the aggressor or not and you should also lose 1 point for every loss, as the aggressor or defender as this would make it slightly more competitive, and would reward the all-round dueller who can win in both attack / defence and punish those who are only attack oriented.

 

[DeletedUser23437]

1st, there is a chance of abuse in almost anything, the idea is to limit that as much as possible... so, in my proposal, if some decided to 'arrange' duels, yes, you will gain pts, but those points will drop, as the one dueler keeps taking loses... and if he is known for going after easy targets in the past, he won't be able to stand up to real duelers over the long haul, making his ratio continue to drop... and over time the abuse becomes less, and infact on a new world, it would not exist... plus really, if you want to be the best, will you really give away points to others??

2.. I would hope that this idea, with the offer of bonds, gear, etc, would draw some of those old duelers to reskill and take up dueling as their main focus again, making dueling more of a challange. I also recomended removing the motivation issue as well

3. again, there would be no duel lvl, only the player lvl as I see it

as with your proposal, my duel rank would refresh each month, with maybe a yearly ranking running as well.

the only issue I see with your proposal is again the abuse of those not wanting to duel (ffs and questers) you say the lvl 120 dueler wont be able to hit the lvl 120 ff but really, if you focus on ffing and questing, you don't just worry about those with lvl equal to yours... this ffer would be only hit by the lvl 120 player for 3 days, but what about lvl 110, 100, or even 90... or as they climb in there dueling rank, those even below rank 90...

no matter what direction Inno goes with this, if they actually do anything, I think they need to really look at the 'cupcake' issue.... I think that drives more people from the game then anything, I know that was why I had taken a good long break from here... I had played a worker when they 1st introduced the-west, and soon got tired of being dueled at every turn and decided to take a break... so finding some way to discourage those cupcake attacks would be great... yes, you will still have some hitting the cupcakes, just for the cash, but if there is an incentive to actually search out another dueler instead and a negative to hitting the cupcakes, I think less ffr's and questers will be targeted and they can focus on enjoying the game.

 

[DeletedUser]

I don't see the abuse as you put it as people wishing to opt out will very quickly be out of the serious duellers' range. Yes, you may well be duelled by someone 30 levels below you, but, you should probably have 30-50 AP and probably at least 100 SP advantage over them so people really shouldn't complain about it too much.

The way it is currently, these same lower levels can still duel the people above them without respite, so, this would be an improvement on the system, where, many people will be duelled in the first 10 days, leaving around 3 weeks for them to be in relative peace to be able to quest, job, etc in relative peace, knowing that most duellers that pose a significant risk to their health are now out of their range.

As for the cupcakes, they are the bread and butter of duellers - it is how they earn a living.

Can I ask you Thomas, have you ever been a serious dueller, or, are you in fact a cupcake seeking protection?

 

[DeletedUser30224]

Came, this proposal screams: No more limits to players you can duel. The whole proposal is about rewards at expense of removing the "Duel lvl's" limitation. Everyone knows that you can duel only players in your duel range, but this Duel Range is the very thing that's getting removed.

I was saying, keep the duel lvl's only to have a reference of how good or bad a dueller you are / or were. The amount of exp can be based on your duel lvl, however you can duel anyone in your Level range, be it +-15 or even +-20.

 

[DeletedUser34315]

Came, this proposal screams: No more limits to players you can duel. The whole proposal is about rewards at expense of removing the "Duel lvl's" limitation. Everyone knows that you can duel only players in your duel range, but this Duel Range is the very thing that's getting removed.

I was saying, keep the duel lvl's only to have a reference of how good or bad a dueller you are / or were. The amount of exp can be based on your duel lvl, however you can duel anyone in your Level range, be it +-15 or even +-20.

I completely agree with this! Would simply and elegantly solve the problem.

 

[DeletedUser]

Came, this proposal screams: No more limits to players you can duel. The whole proposal is about rewards at expense of removing the "Duel lvl's" limitation. Everyone knows that you can duel only players in your duel range, but this Duel Range is the very thing that's getting removed.

I was saying, keep the duel lvl's only to have a reference of how good or bad a dueller you are / or were. The amount of exp can be based on your duel lvl, however you can duel anyone in your Level range, be it +-15 or even +-20.

Yes
By basing who someone can duel on duelling level only encourages 0 mot duelling and make high duelling levels quit because they have very few targets.
Instead we should be encouraging "proper" duelling by rewarding it with bonds in a ranking table that is reset every month. The overall ranking table is not reset and reflects how good or bad you are. But again that only works if duels are not based on duelling levels.
Inno could even get rid of duel motivation completely and this would force the low level hiders who only go for easy low level targets to level and play with real duellers.

And whilst on the topic of improving duelling and just in case anyone from inno does read this....your (inno's) idea of having an arena as the only place to duel, will be an epic fail and thats epic with a capital E. If this ever happens you are basically telling duellers to either fort fight or quit. I'm sure your intentions are good but i really believe you haven't thought about this properly.

 

[DeletedUser30224]

Duck on Quack,

you have seen some proposals to add to your idea, pick the best one if you want and add it to your initial post, or don't change it at all, it's up to you. You have enough material to work with, as soon as you are happy with your idea, give me a shout and I'll poll it for you.

Thank you for your effort.

 

[DeletedUser34781]

This has been a well talked out proposal.. which is needed to iron things out and gives devs something to think about it if its passed

 

[DeletedUser23437]

Can I ask you Thomas, have you ever been a serious dueller, or, are you in fact a cupcake seeking protection?

for your info, I have been both over all my years of playing, so I know both sides

 

[DeletedUser]

i really like this idear , on the dutch server whe have the same problems , 3 guys just immigrated from W2 to Colorado (dutch server) , W2 was a real duelling world

the top 4 looks now like this

nr 1 duel level 631
nr 2 duel level 563
nr 3 duel level 556
nr 4 duel level 246 ??

So i hope Inno can bring duelling back to life :/

my english writing is a bit rusty forgive me

greeting Jan

 

[DeletedUser]

I was saying, keep the duel lvl's only to have a reference of how good or bad a dueller you are / or were. The amount of exp can be based on your duel lvl, however you can duel anyone in your Level range, be it +-15 or even +-20.

This one will make huge NO vote from all those are not duellers and will be the new target of high level duellers, they are currently have those 0 motivation duellers. Also this idea will totally remove the advantage of being 0 motivation duellers which is not good and will get NO vote from those duellers too.

Best way to give more targets to high level duellers is this: Set a max level for duelling level (It could be 300 or 400, some level that they can not duel those people who are not consider themselves [exp gain] dueller). Just like current level progress: When a dueller will reach that level the duelling level wont increase any more but they still get experience and duel experience from duelling and it will add to their duelling experience but their duelling level wont increase any more. They can still duel all players in their duelling range but the exp gain is based on their duelling experience not their duelling level. (This will just make difference when two dueller with max duelling level face each other)

 

[DeletedUser]

i can get the ZMD thing if you want to get youre duelling achievements but after that its kind of sad

after 1500 won duels put the ZMD duellists together in a ZMD league and give them automaticly a duel level of 200 , here they can fight other ZMD duellist but the normal players will be finaly safe
if the ZMD player wants to advance to the next league (XP) ore stay in the ZMD league is his/her own choice

make also a premier leaque for the xp duellist