Here's an Idea: Stop changing the rules!!!

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DeletedUser36559

Or you could just duel those on the duel screen... but maybe those are too hard for you? Or too dangerous, because they actually duel. Again, it seems that duellers just want the easy targets... :hmf:

I gotta find someone on my duel screen first ;) Duelers will simple bounty anyone they see so they show up in sheriff and then go after them so they will simply use this loophole if they want to hit easy targets. I personally don't mind hitting people only on duel screen, I'm talking for those who duel everyone, they will hardly have any targets and will struggle to find them.
 

DeletedUser35520

the problem with dueling is not just "more targets". They should be focusing on making more players want to duel instead of forcing those who do not.
 

DeletedUser

I'd like to have them change the duel experience reduction when you lose a duel to only apply to the defender in the duel ( if you lose ). This should get rid of the annoyance duels where people are trying to lose on purpose.

I'm getting kinda of tired of getting ambushed by people with pillows and bibles which ends up driving up my duel level. As I have not initiated a duel in six months my duel motivation is at 100%. Another stupid side effect of the last round of duel changes.
 

DeletedUser36979

I'd like to have them change the duel experience reduction when you lose a duel to only apply to the defender in the duel ( if you lose ). This should get rid of the annoyance duels where people are trying to lose on purpose.

I'm getting kinda of tired of getting ambushed by people with pillows and bibles which ends up driving up my duel level. As I have not initiated a duel in six months my duel motivation is at 100%. Another stupid side effect of the last round of duel changes.

They should remove the ability to loose experience altogether. You don't unlearn things just because you loose :blink:

Duelling experience should only affect the attacker, so those that doesn't want to duel don't get pushed up in duel-levels just because the duellers aren't good enough to win.

Also, I want 10% motivation limit on jobs, so I don't have to use motivation-buffs to ensure experience and money from them!
 

DeletedUser22685

Also, I want 10% motivation limit on jobs, so I don't have to use motivation-buffs to ensure experience and money from them!

That's nothing but an argument for the sake of arguing. Nobody rides their job motivation down to 10% unless they're only farming products; it's terribly inefficient. That said, for the same reasons I wouldn't necessarily object to such a change just to maintain consistency.
 

DeletedUser19740

Part of the job of alliance duelers is to target the enemy's fort fighters to reduce the opponent's HP before battle... That's war. Hiding non-duelers (fort fighters) from the duel screen makes it more difficult to find the enemy near a battle. There is a workaround, go to the enemy saloons and find them there. However, if an alliance has 50-100 towns in it, that's a long list to go through.

If it's the duel formula that everyone had liked (prior to the first round of bad changes), then this could be a good thing... Will have to wait and see.

Increasing Duel Mot minimum from 3% to 10%...? OH HELL NO! :mad:

Forcing ZMDs to a 3% minimum was bad enough... Forcing it to 10% is going to drive away more duelers. Since removing the ability to use NPCs to lower duel mot was introduced, I am sure there are more low levels that are being beaten up by duelers trying to keep their mot low... That was a bad decision. In trying to force ZMDs to level up, they have made the most vulnerable non-duelers the target.

This whole "war on ZMDs" is bad... It's discrimination against the way some people wish to play. Most just don't want to run out of dueling targets... Sure there are some that abuse it... But there are also some alliances that hoard all the forts... So, are we going to start capping the maximum number of forts a town/alliance can own?

To all of those who fort fight... What if you suddenly were suddenly limited and only able to do one fort battle per week? What would you do? Wouldn't you be upset? Why do ZMDs have to be forced to play the game the way someone else wants them to? :mad:

This started out as a DUELING game... So many people left when the first big changes were made to dueling... Every new negative change makes more people leave...

Can someone at INNO not see the drastic drop in numbers??? Seriously! Look back in time and figure out the total numbers, what skill/rule changes, the corresponding drop in player numbers after the changes... I'm sure all of us old timers can definitely tell there are a lot fewer people now... And we don't even have to crunch numbers... Play this game on a daily (or nearly daily) basis and you can see it... From the number of people available to duel, to the attendance at fort battles.

I used to enjoy the game... Way back in the ol' w9 and w10 days... before the ability to buy skills (just a whole lotta badness there...)... Before v2.0... And even earlier... Before Forts... Before PANTS!!!

Now... I'm just here because of the people I've met... The more that leave... the less likely I'll stay.
:tumble:

Also... Why change the rules after people have joined the game? It certainly isn't the same game that I joined and fell in love with... I came here from another game... brought here by some friends that I met there... I told them "I'll only have time to play one world, part time."... Now I'm in 12 worlds... And ready to throw in the towel.
:(
amen to that helen. its not the same and only cause of all the friends i met is the number 1 reason im still here. too many rule changes. go back to the way it used to be.(before buying skill points)
 

DeletedUser33353

I do love all of the posts on how to take the game back to where it used to be several years ago. Guess what? The world moves on. Either adapt or don't. Personally, I enjoyed dueling pantsless and doing 2 hour jobs. That ship has sailed however. Have fun wherever you are...and of course do few dishonorable duels for the giggles.
 

DeletedUser35903

Anny stated the general atmosphere very clearly, if you don't like it, hit the delete character button.
As I have said before, that's the problem.

How to fix it?
The upgrade system can be a very effective tool, though I personally think the named items should not be able to be upgraded, since the nuggeters are upgrading those items from events and making less available. Not to mention driving the market prices up.
So how would the market apply to the free players?
If you don't get hit you don't lose Hp, buy and upgrade for dodging, que your jobs then set skills, dress, for dodging.
When your ready to sleep, strip naked and duel, bang KO'd and given 72 hours of no worry.
The job KO was very nice for this and with the 24/72 hour it could be used rather effectively by the non-duelers.
Alliances have the ability to take out malicious duelers and keep them far from the non-duelers, but an effective pool of duelers must exist and be willing to just duel the malicious duelers.
These solutions already exist and have always been available, the question doesn't go to the duelers, but to those who don't, within the game, use the tools already available.
But like the general consensus, just hit delete, go play solitare. It's free too.
 
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DeletedUser

Same argument different day. I've played since 2009 and I've seen this game go from a few hundred thousand per world to 1200 per world. I've seen dueling go from good to what it is now which is shat.

This is my 2 pesos. Stop marketing the game as a dueling game Inno. When you start asking questions for players who delete about "Did you get ganged up on by mean duelers" It starts to become obvious. When you've been around a while to see the changes, the decline in the game, the players who have left because of a multitude of bad decisions... You realize the game is no longer about PVP with the exception of Forts which isn't really PVP it's a crap shoot.

I've done them both... Experience and ZMD. Experience dueling is a joke. Any arse can duel fort fighters and workers to gain massive experience and get easy top 50. Not to hard for top 10 if you put the time in. ZMD is a joke too, but for a different reason. The more talented duelers who dedicate their entire game go ZMD, which makes it harder. But the ability to slaughter people 60 BASE LEVELS below you is disgusting. Even 20 base levels below you is sad.

But INNO is not willing to do what is required to make dueling a square playing field. It has become like Fort Fighting... Who has the real life cash to invest wins. Well I for one will not invest another Peso in this game.

Best of luck INNO, the early years sure were fun!

I do love all of the posts on how to take the game back to where it used to be several years ago. Guess what? The world moves on. Either adapt or don't. Personally, I enjoyed dueling pantsless and doing 2 hour jobs. That ship has sailed however. Have fun wherever you are...and of course do few dishonorable duels for the giggles.

That is the attitude that has killed the game. (Adapt or don't) Some of the changes to this game have been wonderful. The job system is amazing for example. But when you kill off the things people enjoy doing then you're out of a "kinda" job right? The game dies you go back to watching smurfs and eating oreos ;) I played in the first MUDS back in the day. I played on a wonderful game, back in the hayday of 14.4 dial up modems it was the only way to game online. They had the same faulty line of thought. Adapt or don't, there will ALWAYS BE MORE PLAYERS... Guess what? Technology evolved, bad decisions were made, they greatly upset the PK players. Now you're lucky to see 3 people on that game at one time, and those are only there because they are "literally" blind/handicapped and can't play visual games. PLEASE TAKE THE LESSON INNO.

amen to that helen. its not the same and only cause of all the friends i met is the number 1 reason im still here. too many rule changes. go back to the way it used to be.(before buying skill points)

So agreed with you and Helen. I stick around to shoot people once in a while and visit friends. The money train is done I'll never put another cent in this game.

I'd like to have them change the duel experience reduction when you lose a duel to only apply to the defender in the duel ( if you lose ). This should get rid of the annoyance duels where people are trying to lose on purpose.

I'm getting kinda of tired of getting ambushed by people with pillows and bibles which ends up driving up my duel level. As I have not initiated a duel in six months my duel motivation is at 100%. Another stupid side effect of the last round of duel changes.

roflmao, as I said they make a lot of dumb decisions based on crybabies who play a game that advertises PVP but then don't want to participate in PVP lol.

The solution to that would be more player in total.
The bullies themselves are a part of the reason for the problem, since those that don't duel, find ways to avoid it. Like going townless, or quitting the game.
And if duelers want more targets.... level up to duel-level 450, and duel each other... Innogames even helps you with that by securing that you always get at least 10% experience for a duel :blink: I would like that for my jobs :D

Anzian have you done a count lately? What players are there to duel? Hmm another newbie.

the problem with dueling is not just "more targets". They should be focusing on making more players want to duel instead of forcing those who do not.

The issue is not that they are forcing those who do not, it is that they are attempting to force those that do want to, to stop dueling and there by protect those that do not want to duel. Dueling was here long before forts, quests, dailies, shiny and set equipment etc... The game had a shat ton more players then. Wonder why?
 
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DeletedUser36979

Anzian have you done a count lately? What players are there to duel? Hmm another newbie.

I have. Did you read what I wrote? Or just the last part?

For this game to evolve again, we need more players, but dueling the new people makes many of them quit, and the few that would like to duel, doesn't really have a chance against Bible-slinging ZMD bullies going for easiest target all the time, because they lack targets (at least that is what they claim... we all know they are afraid of real duels).

And like I stated earlier, those that doesn't want to duel, find ways to avoid it.
So if you want more targets, you need more people that want to duel, but we just get fewer by the day.

Those that want to duel, should duel others that want to duel, that makes sense, and people won't leave because they get bullied (They will leave because the game is slow and static instead).
But most duelers I see in the game don't duel other duelers, because they risk losing :blink:

Duels themselves is a joke: It is all about equipment, and equipment is all about real money. And since the upgrade fail, it just have gotten worse, now to compete you'll need lvl 3+ Cullen, Doolin or the next new duel set, preferably with a lvl 5 weapon, which you only get by paying... Great short-term deal for InnoGames, since people use lots of cash on that, but a huge longterm mistake, since people also quit because this once great free to play game is turning into a Pay-to-win game.

Why stay and pay? When you can find more dynamic browser-games, with real PvP, better graphics, etc. for free!!!

A short term solution would be removing the experience loss from duels, since they keep ZMD's level low... win 20, loose 10... total duel xp gain= 0 and the increase InnoGames wanted is still not here :hmf:

And unless Innogames find a way to stop the players from leaving, there is no reason for a long-term solution, since the game will go in the reds, and servers shut down, it is a business afterall, and the bottomline is what really counts.
 

DeletedUser

I have. Did you read what I wrote? Or just the last part?

For this game to evolve again, we need more players, but dueling the new people makes many of them quit, and the few that would like to duel, doesn't really have a chance against Bible-slinging ZMD bullies going for easiest target all the time, because they lack targets (at least that is what they claim... we all know they are afraid of real duels).

And like I stated earlier, those that doesn't want to duel, find ways to avoid it.
So if you want more targets, you need more people that want to duel, but we just get fewer by the day.

Those that want to duel, should duel others that want to duel, that makes sense, and people won't leave because they get bullied (They will leave because the game is slow and static instead).
But most duelers I see in the game don't duel other duelers, because they risk losing :blink:

Duels themselves is a joke: It is all about equipment, and equipment is all about real money. And since the upgrade fail, it just have gotten worse, now to compete you'll need lvl 3+ Cullen, Doolin or the next new duel set, preferably with a lvl 5 weapon, which you only get by paying... Great short-term deal for InnoGames, since people use lots of cash on that, but a huge longterm mistake, since people also quit because this once great free to play game is turning into a Pay-to-win game.

Why stay and pay? When you can find more dynamic browser-games, with real PvP, better graphics, etc. for free!!!

A short term solution would be removing the experience loss from duels, since they keep ZMD's level low... win 20, loose 10... total duel xp gain= 0 and the increase InnoGames wanted is still not here :hmf:

And unless Innogames find a way to stop the players from leaving, there is no reason for a long-term solution, since the game will go in the reds, and servers shut down, it is a business afterall, and the bottomline is what really counts.

Yes I read what you said. Which is why I called you a newbie. Not all ZMD's go for easiest targets a lot of us were bounty hunters. As I said I've done both. Dueling for experience is far easier than ZMD as I can level up quick on Fort Fighters and workers. I know you non-duelers do not understand the concept, but EXP dueling is easier. Getting dueling rank is super easy as it is set up. Dueling levels are archaic and pointless and the system is 95% of the problem. The fix to not wanting to get dueled is be an adventurer and be townless. Until INNO stops advertising this as a PVP game no one and I mean NO ONE has any room to complain about being dueled. Seriously have you watched "The-west" commercials in the new "Theater"? 90% of those commercials are about PVP and Dueling.

You're partially correct on Dueling Equipment, it does make a massive difference. But unless you are smart enough to understand how the skills/abilities play into it you'll still lose. I can wear store bought equipment and have duel the best setup quest set equipment on the game and if you are not trained right I'm still going to win.

Inno has lost enough players by changing duels. It's time to put the other parts of the game on the same level. I personally think Fort Fighting should be Motivation related. If you do more than 1 fight every 3 days then your Experience should drop, and you earn no bonds, after all duelers don't earn bonds for dueling why should FFers earn bonds for FFing. You shouldn't be able to participate in a FF for 24 hours if you get killed in one. Jobs should have product harvesting tied to motivation. Once you reach 0 you shouldn't be able to do that job anymore.

If you look and are honest with yourself. Duelers are the only type of player that get penalized for doing what they enjoy. You're right about the moving on to more dynamic games. Most of us already have we are only here to chat now days and reminisce about when the game was fun.
 

DeletedUser

I have to wonder if Inno is even serious about this game anymore. I watch TV and I see advert after advert for FoE and Grepolis, yet I have yet to see one single advert on my TV advertising The West.
From a business-strategy, this is the type of thing that you do if you are planning on putting a game on the back-shelf and leaving it to die. Hype up the games that are making you money to try to get even more people in the game and let the one that isn't making you so much just slip by the wayside. If it makes it on its own, great. If it dies, it's a shame, but it wasn't a huge money-spinner, so you don't miss it too much.
I may be reading too much into it, but it does seem strange that two of their games are on every ad-break, while the other isn't on at all.
 

DeletedUser

I have to wonder if Inno is even serious about this game anymore. I watch TV and I see advert after advert for FoE and Grepolis, yet I have yet to see one single advert on my TV advertising The West.
From a business-strategy, this is the type of thing that you do if you are planning on putting a game on the back-shelf and leaving it to die. Hype up the games that are making you money to try to get even more people in the game and let the one that isn't making you so much just slip by the wayside. If it makes it on its own, great. If it dies, it's a shame, but it wasn't a huge money-spinner, so you don't miss it too much.
I may be reading too much into it, but it does seem strange that two of their games are on every ad-break, while the other isn't on at all.

I've said that for the last 2 years Big John, I suspect you are 100% correct

The duel formula already has a "governor" in place when dueling low lvl opponents. I Have plenty of reports as evidence of the difference in damage when dueling someone significantly lower lvl and someone near or above my lvl.

Maybe they should just eliminate the ability to duel someone 40+ lvls lower than yourself. That is the root of the problem.

Yes it is. Just eliminate the duel level system and implement a set level spread of opponents based on your real level. Not difficult to understand if you have any real knowledge of dueling. I have a ton of duel reports that show the luck factor when dueling lower level opponents. I lose more to significantly lower opponents than any other players.
 
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DeletedUser36979

Until INNO stops advertising this as a PVP game no one and I mean NO ONE has any room to complain about being dueled. Seriously have you watched "The-west" commercials in the new "Theater"? 90% of those commercials are about PVP and Dueling.

People don't complain about getting dueled, they leave town, do self-KO duels or leave the game... it is the duelers that complain over not having enough targets.
And advertising this as a PvP game, that is probably the root of the problem, this is not a PvP game, and the Dueling part is just PvE assaults with deadly weapons.
Most people think direct player against player shootouts if you ask them about PvP duels, not some static algoritm decided slow thing like this. Player versus Player would require at least to active participants, here you need none.... you can just set up to 4 ( or 9 if premium ) and then log off again.
The difference between PvP and PvE is just one thing: The human element. Which you don't have in duels.

If you look and are honest with yourself. Duelers are the only type of player that get penalized for doing what they enjoy.

Penalized? You are being secured experience... that is not a penalty, it is a gift, but what a wasted gift, just look at all those bible slingers wasting lots of energy trying to get rid of the duel part of the gift... :blink:
It is the rest of the people that are penalized, they have to waste time and/or money on crap to gain motivation, or settle with not gaining experience if they want to limit their involvement in the game to one single thing, lots of traders out there would be glad if they got secured 10% experience every 15s...

Set motivation to 100% every 24h, remove the 10% cap, and make anything impossible with 0 motivation. (I know it most likely won't happen, due to whining ZMD's that are afraid to play with real duelers)

And for the fort-motivation thing, sure, as long as everyone in the cities are forced to participate willingly or not, since that is the way it works with duels already... :no:
 

DeletedUser30417

Yes it is. Just eliminate the duel level system and implement a set level spread of opponents based on your real level. Not difficult to understand if you have any real knowledge of dueling. I have a ton of duel reports that show the luck factor when dueling lower level opponents. I lose more to significantly lower opponents than any other players.

Indeed just get rid of the duel level entirely.

But to compensate non duelers I suggest they get 1 week duel protection everytime they get KO'd. This applies to job KO's as well to FF'ing KO's and duel KO's. Only requirement is that the KO'd player hasn't initiated a duel in a month. Ofcource this duel protection can be ended anytime by the protected player when he initiates a duel himself/herself.

Then dueling would become what it ought to be. Dueler versus dueler. So ZMD's think their better duelers than exp duelers? Prove it! Man up and face other duelers. Stop whining, sharpen your blade or grease your pistol and test your mettle against likeminded individuals. If you don't like it then get the heck outta Dodge! (always wanted to use this Gunsmoke quote :laugh: )
 

DeletedUser23737

Hi Fellow dueling enthusiasts,

I really want a place to share my thoughts on the recent changes to dueling. I haven't really worried about the past changes because I could find ways around them to still enjoy the West experience.

I know there's three core elements to playing the West: questing (which involves jobbing), fort fighting and dueling. Take away one element... and the West experience is less somehow. Think about it... a world with no dueling? or with no fort battles. Would it be the same? Not imo.

The point behind the latest 10% min motivation effort is to increase every duelers duel level? so over time workers and fort fighters will be able to play this game without being dueled?

Well... the reality is simple: Duel players will start to win 10 duels to get the xp and then they will equip the bible and lose 30 duels. This will mean resistant builds will be favoured as it can better handle the losses. Duel records (wins vrs loss records) will no longer be a source of pride. So the world will see a very one dimensional dueling playing field.

Honour duels? With skill buying, how can a player seriously pick duels that will give honour points with hidden aspects such as this? Well, they can't.

Possible solutions:

Erase the duel level. It is actually an out-dated feature. Skill buying scuppered it. (Eg: A lev 80 player with a duel level of 140 can now duel a lev 130 player (d/l 150) who has bought 20 levels of skills... and this is supposed to test the lev 80's duel ability?).

Instead any level player can duel +20 levels or -20 levels.

Make fort fighting and dueling skills compatible.
Leadership becomes shooting or vigor, stamina become toughness, hiding becomes reflex. (dodging and aim remain the same :p) Why? A town now has many more players who can enjoy two aspects of the game (dueling and forting).

New feature: Sheriffs. Sheriffs are nominated players of a town who defend the citizens of their town. (Can be done much like a founders/councilors hat feature). When a duel is initiated against a town member, if they are within a certain vicinity of their town, then the duel gets enacted on the closest sheriff (is based on player level however). If there is no available sheriff (sleeping or KO'd)... then the town member gets to face their own duel. (Hence why making fort skills and duel skills compatible).

What might this feature mean? 1) Workers can be dedicated to their field of choice (helping their town) and know there is a nearby sheriff who will defend them against attacks.
2) Duelers/Soldiers who are Sheriffs will become a vital feature of a town's prosperity.

Any thoughts on this?


Personally, I am really grasping at straws atm to keep dueling... in fact... to keep playing is also at risk here for me. Why?

On one world (Dakota) I was #1xp dueler for a time, but now find myself armed with a bible trying to lose duels just to get some new targets. Dueling there was no fun at all because the strategy of dueling was gone. (0-5 targets world wide tends to do this).

No hitting enemy players before fort battles, no revenge duels for our lower or less duel-able players, no contributing in town vrs town fueds, or alliance vrs alliance wars. No getting easy income from plain old armed robbery duels either.

After 4 weeks, I now have about 19 targets in the world. How many of them duel me? Just two, and that is because they realise from chatting to me that I am now such easy duel and game xp. I have even helped put another player up to #2 spot there. This upsets me no end as I had to fight my way to the top. While the current #2 dueler is a good dueler and nice person, I somehow feel I am cheating him by putting him from #5 to #2 spot through my many bible wielding loses to him. ((I need to point out that it is not I alone who fights fairly to get to #1 xp dueler. I apologise to any dueler who is doing just what I did and is dueling like crazy to get to #1 spot.))

I just don't want to spend a dime on that world as I am only playing to lose, lose, lose. After years of playing there... I am really struggling to enjoy that world atm. Who plays to lose? I played to enjoy the win, and to help my town mates.

I am now in a town of one there, because how can I contribute to a town/alliance when all I do is lose duels?

On El Dorado, I was a zero motivation dueler... with a nice duel record... but now... slowly my duel xp is rising. Yes... slowly. Again, I find no duelers who are targeting me. Why would they? Where is the advantage of taking out a rival dueler? There is none.

I won't some day enter a level where there is just duelers to test myself against because already players are losing duels to keep their duel level low... but also because somehow dueling is continually being relegated, down graded... censured.... to the point where the once formidable duelers I battled hard against have quit and gone on to new pastures.

At some point I will need to forsake my duel record... and start the process of losing? to keep this game interesting??

I am not spending on that world either... what is the point?

I am trying to highlight how the West is becoming very 'correct' and 'sanitised'. The fun part of this game was the strategy and the coming together of a town...and this was always intensified through battles and wars with other towns/alliances.

Remember when shops were actually useful? and when building the town... the builders were prized and protected... as any 'good' items your shop had could give your town the advantage over rival towns? Where duelers would hover like angry hornets to protect their builders... and where town wars erupted from dueling them?

With all the many great changes to this game... some changes have not helped at all.
 
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DeletedUser30417

I agree, 1 week would be better. But not from FF ko, that would discourage duelers to risk getting ko'd in a fort fight.

A dueler would have initiated a duel in the last 30 days so he wouldn't be entitled to duel protection at all. So dueler can still partake in FF'ing without having to worry about duel protection.
 

DeletedUser

Am I wrong on this? Please feel free to correct me if I am.
I read time and time again about duellers saying there are no people for them to duel. Yet I often see duellers who used to be ZMD's and are now very-low-level-Mot' duellers.
The real duellers happily accept the experience and get their duelling-level up. The ones at the top can duel each other and anyone else in their range.
The 'targets' that the ex-ZMD's go for are Adventurers and Workers who have absolutely no interest in duelling and so self-KO to get their protection. This means that the duellers who insist on staying at low-duelling-levels really do have few to no targets to fight.
How about this. Stop trying to keep your levels low, accept the duelling-XP and you will be within reach of the actual duellers who have levelled up and you will have a glut of targets to fight.
This is just what I have seen from the game and from posts in the forums.
Like I say, if I'm wrong on this, feel free to contradict me. Just my two-cents.
 
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