Passed Guard Job Proposal

Discussion in 'Development Discussions' started by sdjx22, Dec 5, 2008.

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Do you wish the guarding job was added to the game.

Poll closed Dec 10, 2008.
  1. Yes, I want the guarding option

    78.8%
  2. No, I don't see a need.

    21.2%
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  1. sdjx22

    sdjx22 Well-Known Member

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    First, thank you for taking the time to read this proposal. It is the result of much discussion on the forum, and I am presenting a summary of what was agreed as the best way forward for this idea. The moderators put this idea to a vote (to decide if it should be submitted to yourselves), and it won with a result of 152 votes to 41.

    If you would like to see the discussions in full, please see the following two threads on the forum:
    http://forum.the-west.net/showthread.php?t=8024&page=4
    http://forum.the-west.net/showthread.php?t=8660

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    The Current View
    As I am sure you are aware, people who choose a class that is not a Dueller or a Soldier feel aggrieved when they are duelled, mainly because they feel they have no protection or an adequate way of defending themselves. We have, together through discussions, come up with a solution which we feel will not only keep these disenfranchised players playing the game, but also adds an extra element of gameplay for both Soldiers and Duellers. It would add excitement to the game, and give rise to a lot more duelling.

    The Proposed Idea
    That a new job be created, for anyone, called 'Guard Town'. This would give a chance of whoever did the job (Although it would be geared towards the soldier class) intercepting the dueller to protect the intended victim. It would be either right next to a town on the map, or on the town screen itself. It would be open to anyone who wished to guard a town, although obviously it would mainly be people of that specific town that would do this job.

    HOW IT WOULD WORK

    The Job
    • Any town member can queue up the 'Guard Town' job. He can do this for 10m, 30m, 1h or 2h, as normal.
    • It costs the player energy per hour to do this job as any other job.
    • It pays a token wage and XP, for example 5% Wage, 5% XP. It would have 0% Luck, and the danger would depend on who is visiting your town
    • There are skills needed to for the job: Leadership, Aim, Dodging, Setting Traps, Tactics, or something like that. (THIS IS AN EXAMPLE, FINAL SKILLS NEEDED TO BE DECIDED BY THE DEVLOPERS). It has a difficulty level of 30. 1 labor point needed to work, as usual. Again, the difficulty is to be decided by yourselves.

    The Interception

    • The more labour points you have, the higher chance the guard has of intercepting a duel. Each labor point would equal a 1% chance of interception, with no limit on the percentage.
    • The skill 'Hiding' will reduce the chance of being intercepted. This is not a normal skill used in a duel, so if a dueller wishes to use it, he/she will be forced to forgoe spending those points on duel skills. Adds more strategy to the dueller's build. Each skill point in hiding would reduce the chance of interception by 5%.
    • DUELLER A comes to town, queues up a duel against WORKER A. The normal duelling procedure follows. If the duelling levels do not correspond with the limits alreayd imposed on the game, then the interception cannot take place and DUELLER A duels his intended target as normal. If the duelling levels of GUARD A and DUELLER A are acceptable, then in the background it works out (using GUARD A's percentage of interception after taking off DUELLER A's hiding deduction) if he get's intercepted. Then one of two things happen:
      1) DUELLER A is not intercepted. The intended duel with WORKER A goes ahead as normal. The normal motivation and energy cost is spent. OR:
      2) DUELLER A is intercepted. In effect the guard has instigated a duel with the dueller. This costs the guard the usual duel motivation and energy but does not cost the dueller any. He duels GUARD A. The duel happens instantly, the dueller does not have the option to cancel. Then one of two things happen again:
      2a) GUARD A wins the duel. The defeated DUELLER A is unable to attack either GUARD A or WORKER A within the next hour. He is free to attack other members as usual. It has only cost him nothing.
      2b) DUELLER A wins the duel. He gains the usual XP and any money (if the guard is silly enough to have some on him). He then duels WORKER A in the usual manner with a ten minute delay as normal. This duel costs him NO motivation and energy and is played as usual. He has the option to cancel this duel if s/he wishes

    Other
    • If there is more than one guard on patrol at the same time, the dueller can only be intercepted by one of them i.e. he doesn't have to run the gauntlet.
    • The dueller does, however, have more chance of being caught. It would run the test to see if Guard A intercepts the dueller. If he does, the procedure above is ran. If he doesn't, it runs the test to see if Guard B intercepts and so on. This is fair, because there is a high chance of the guards being different duelling levels, so automatically have no chance of intercepting.
    • In the event of a number of duellers visiting town at the same time (i.e. co-ordinated attacks, the dueller can only intercept one at a time. If he intercepts DUELLER A, and whilst the ten minutes duel is being played, DUELLERS B and C come to town, there is no protection unless there are more guards. That said, if DUELLER A gets past, DUELLER B may get intercepted instead.
    • The guard is only limited to however many duels he has the energy and health points for.
    • Guards can still be duelled in the normal way whilst working, as they are not sleeping. They cannot intercept during this duel.
    • All current duelling rules/procedures are to stay as they are and take priority over this idea.

    NOTE
    This would need to be monitored, initially at least, to ensure that it was a fair way of it working. We are aiming for around a 50% interception rate on duels that take place on a town at the same time as that town having a guard in place. We do not know all of the figures for clothing items, because we don't wish for someone to be able to wear an item of cloting that eradicates either 1) soemone's chances of duelling who they want or 2) someone's chances of intercepting a dueller.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Why?
    Obviously, this would take a lot of work on your part, but myself and the other members of the forum believe that it would add a lot of extra gameplay to the game, and it benefits EVERY class. As I am sure you are aware, there are many discussions about the percieved injustices of the current duelling system, and a lot of people dislike it. There have been many people thinking of many different ideas to combat this. None have been able to do what this idea has done, which is to get the united backing of people who play as duellers as well as those that don't.

    It would be good for duellers because they could get two duels for the same energy and motivation cost as one. It would be good for soldiers because it would give them a specific purpose in the game, a job designed with them in mind, and allow them to protect the town they are a member of. It would also be good for everybody else because it gives them a chance of being protected from a duel, which many people are crying out for.

    It would probably increase the amount of Gold Nuggets purchased too. I would imagine that the big towns would like 24 hour protection. A guard could only queue up 4 hours of the guard town job, but with premium could guard the town for 8 hours. It would also add more rivalry. Already, players like to go and get revenge on people who beat them in duels. If a dueller is beaten by a guard, they would want to go and duel that guard again to beat them.

    There are no other jobs on the game at the moment that have so many benefits to the whole of the gameplay as this 'Guard Town' one would.

    I would be extremely grateful for some real feedback on this idea. We would be willing to discuss any issues you may have with it and re-propose it if need be.

    Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2008
  2. John Rose

    John Rose Guest

    *thumbs up*

    Let's hope does what it's supposed to do.

    Thanks to all those that participated in the previous discussion, and a special thanks to SDJX22 for reposting this in an orderly fashion.
     
  3. keighlon

    keighlon Guest

    great summary. one point of thought though. should the duel cost the guard energy? if it only cost him the health he lost then it would be geared more toward the soldier class, and if 50 people happen to attack the town he still has the ability to duel them, just runs the hazard getting ko'd. motivation yes, but isnt he paying the energy by starting the job? all in all i agree that this would be an excellent addition to the game.
     
  4. Black Jack

    Black Jack Guest

    /signed.

    So am I to assume that a 48 hour "Cannot Guard" restriction comes into place when the guard is killed from a duel?
     
  5. sdjx22

    sdjx22 Well-Known Member

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    That would be correct Black Jack, seeing as they would be unable to duel.

    Kieghlon, I agree actually.

    Does everyone else favour this just costing normal energy, rather than duelling energy on top?
     
  6. Black Jack

    Black Jack Guest

    Alright then. Good stuff.

    And yes, I agree with normal energy being spent. 2 hour shifts can be placed four times without premium(a 5th at the end of the day), as any normal job can, and defenders of duels don't lose energy anyway. You would only be able to guard two times with 36 energy being spent(a 3rd after those 4 hours), no premium.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2008
  7. Hightower

    Hightower Guest

    The one thing that I can see defiantly getting shot down is the job lasting more than 2 hours. There is no reason to make an exception for this job.

    Also, this statement: "Duellers can duel workers too easily, and there is no protection for the workers." is completely bogus. Workers have the option to protect themselves, they choose not to put skills into defense.

    A worker that partially allocates points to defensive skills can get free exp and money. If they choose to be a push over, shouldn't they have to pay the price?
     
  8. Ulthor

    Ulthor Guest

    I think it should cost the guard duelling energy because it is, in effect, his/her instigation of the duel. There seems to be an awful lot of accommodating towards the guards and letting them have duelling motivation free duels is just too much.
    I don't want to be a complete arse BUT the motion I voted on was the one above, you can't put in yet more concessions to defenders post hoc.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2008
  9. abtin

    abtin Well-Known Member

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    wage and Xp must get higher .
    totally i think you make it a bit more difficult with more skill point needed it would be nicer .
     
  10. keighlon

    keighlon Guest

    so we are all agreed to blackball ulthor and run him out of town with all his independant equality and all that and make it cost regular energy for a job right? good. (waves at ulthor).
     
  11. Ulthor

    Ulthor Guest

    Now look you cheat you CANNOT change the ballot after the vote has been counted.
     
  12. TimeWalker

    TimeWalker Guest

    actually ulthor if you GET dueled it's already duel energy free! and the dueler is taking the chance that he gets caught with this system tho I think that BOTH duels if you get caught should only cost standard energy for ONE duel


    I agree with hightower on many of his points a builder who is a pushover is an easy mark.. but then again that is what this is to counteract
     
  13. Black Jack

    Black Jack Guest

    Workers aren't complete pushovers. If they pured their strength stats only, you'd find them with a reasonable amount of vigor and perhaps a good weapon, and this is without clothing.
     
  14. Breth

    Breth Guest

    *gasp at Black Jack for attacking naked people*

    BLack Jack does have a point. Think of the pure constructors, if they are level 25, then they would have 25 toughness, 25 health, and 25 vigor skill points. All important melee duelling stats.

    I don't think Laborers are as much a pushover as people claim them to be.
     
  15. keighlon

    keighlon Guest

    lol. well honestly the duelist is instigating the attack, the guard just has a percentage chance to notice and intervene. like a bouncer at a rowdy nightclub. so the job should cost energy to do, like any job, and the duel for the duelist should cost energy as well, just like any duel, and nobody gets charged for energy they didnt commit to. even if you duel the soldier and win, then duel the mark and win, you still only paid energy for one duel, and you got xp from both duels, and money. not to mention thats only IF theres a guard and only IF hes available to catch you and only IF hes withing your dueling range and only IF his intercept beats your hiding and then only IF he can actually beat you. lotta ifs there. i dont see this as a huge detriment to duellers (maybe even a bonus!) and i dont feel the soldier needs to be taxed for the duel as well as the job. i mean its not like its coming with fantastic pay or xp.


    p.s. i still love you ulthor.
     
  16. I see some potential uses of abuse and the coding might be more difficult to implement then Inno would want to try and figure out.
     
  17. madkill

    madkill Guest

    No, guarding shouldn't cost energy, but while on the job you shouldn't gain any energy either, but it does cost energy if duelled.

    I still object to anyone being able to guard the town because it can be abused, someone could have a really low levelled friend guard a town they wish to attack and therefore, the town is not actually safe.

    It should be restricted because it is not something you benefit from since you gain 5% money/exp, so thats redundant for someone who isn't part of the town.
    It being restricted to town residents makes being part of a town more useful.
    HOWEVER!..Adventurers would be the only class that can guard any town they want to, which is logical enough.
    But, depending on town hall, it limits the adventurer lowest level.
    If Townhall is level 1.
    Adventurer must be level 10 or higher.
    If Townhall is level 2.
    Adventurer must be level 20 of higher.

    And so on, this stops someone from creating an account and sending in a level 1 to defend a town they're going to attack.

    If you don't like the idea as a whole, then perhaps the last bit with the townhall?..it would only apply to non-residents.

    Remember, Guarding someone's town is a Service-
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2008
  18. Black Jack

    Black Jack Guest

    Madkill, when he said "for anyone" he meant for anyone who is part of the town they are guarding. It's just that Soldier class members would be of more use to the job than other classes.

    Low difficulty, required labor points, decreasing motivation; it's basically the same as the construction/upgrading of buildings.
     
  19. madkill

    madkill Guest

    "A new job, for anyone"

    There is no implication of it being for just town members.
     
  20. Black Jack

    Black Jack Guest

    Right below that, there is.

    Just like any player can do the construction job, you have to be a member of a town for it to become available. By 'anyone' he means it is not limited to the Soldier class, but suggests that only soldiers would be better suited for the job.

     
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