GB to pull out of Europe

DeletedUser9470

It is obvious to me the best thing we ever did concerning Europe was to say no to the Euro.

Europe was initially to bring nations together, instead it has brought fuel to the hatred fire.

Europe has restricted and killed British agriculture and British fishing. It has overloaded our already hugely regulated markets with even more regulations. now we import very bad quality milk from poland for more money than we pay our English dairy farmers for their top quality, hugely expensive to produce, premium milk!!!

We have given Europe Billions of pounds of our money, our taxpayers money for what?
what has Europe spent our money on?

In what is seen as a direct response to revelations that 2,000 EU officials, earning between €124,000 and €185,000 a year, were also entitled to three months off work on full pay last year, Presidente Barroso said:
"The European civil service is often attacked for its apparent 'privileges' when this is not the case and I am always defending this."

barroso%25C2%25B5.jpg
source: http://openeuropeblog.blogspot.com/search/label/EU waste

what are these guys on? cos i really want some!

At a time when virtually every European government is tightening its belt, the EU continues to propose budget increases and award projects which cannot possibly qualify as good value for taxpayers' money (which is both the fault of the Commission and member states). This is simply unacceptable.

What has Europe done for us?
open markets?
We opened them to the worldwide market years ago.
What else?

As far as i am concerned Europe has been a huge waste of time and money.
Europe should be paying us! not the other way around! without our trade europe is nothing.
Why should we care about them?

wait a sec ill have a little snooze before finishing this off...
...back!

IMO the sooner we pull out, the better it will be for the UK, we will be able to help the British youth rather than hinder their future, we would pay a lot less tax and that would benefit our economy.
sure we can lend whoever wants money, instead of just giving it to them.

last thing I heard from a European guy:
Marc Lievremont (french nation rugby coach):
"We don't like the English"
"We don't like them and it's better to say that than be hypocritical,"
"We have a bit of trouble with the English. We respect them - well in my case at least I respect them. But you couldn't say we have the slightest thing in common with them."

how about we show Europe a place where the sun doesn't shine?
 
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Diggo11

Well-Known Member
It is obvious to me the best thing we ever did concerning Europe was to say no to the Euro.
The Pound is certainly a stronger currency, so without much research that sounds correct. If you stopped writing here you'd probably have made a good argument ;)

Europe was initially to bring nations together, instead it has brought fuel to the hatred fire.
A fallacious generalisation, no proof.

Europe has restricted and killed British agriculture and British fishing. It has overloaded our already hugely regulated markets with even more regulations.
The EU hasn't killed UK fishing - history has. According to a BBC report, supported by this article, UK fishing stocks have dropped dramatically over the past 200 years. If anything, further regulations are in order to protect what viability the industry has left.

now we import very bad quality milk from poland for more money than we pay our English dairy farmers for their top quality, hugely expensive to produce, premium milk!!!
UK Dairy Farmers certainly aren't fairing too well at the moment, granted, but that isn't because of the EU. That is because the UKs' supermarkets are utilising the UK's Open Markets to import milk at a cheaper price from other countries; nothing to do with EU regulations, and again providing no proof.

We have given Europe Billions of pounds of our money, our taxpayers money for what?
what has Europe spent our money on?

source: http://openeuropeblog.blogspot.com/search/label/EU waste
Lol, nice source. I actually don't think I could find a more bias blog on this issue :rolleyes:

Unfortunately for your argument I actually did a quick bit of research on Open Europe. I didn't need to go further than Wikipedia for this one -- "While Open Europe does not advocate British withdrawal from the European Union, it is critical of the process of European integration and has called for "substantial powers to be returned" to member states."

Well done, Neo.

At a time when virtually every European government is tightening its belt, the EU continues to propose budget increases and award projects which cannot possibly qualify as good value for taxpayers' money (which is both the fault of the Commission and member states). This is simply unacceptable.
Welcome to modern economics, notably schools of thought such as the Keynesian Theory. When business is in recession governments spend more to help balance out the deficit, and when business is booming governments tax more to recoup the losses sustained during recession.

As to the actual funding allocation, care to elaborate? You've failed to actually mention exactly what the EU budget consists of, and within that list one problem area. Or would doing so just make this part of your argument fall apart like the rest of it?

What has Europe done for us?
open markets?
We opened them to the worldwide market years ago.
What else?

As far as i am concerned Europe has been a huge waste of time and money.
Europe should be paying us! not the other way around! without our trade europe is nothing.
Why should we care about them?
That's a good question, why don't you actually tell us what it is you think they're wasting money on? Meanwhile, I'll list that the EU has done for the UK.

According to the BBC:
1. Easy Travel
2. Easy Relocation
3. Equal Pay and Non Discrimination
4. Paid Leave
5. Easier Foreign Study
6. Cheaper Flights
7. Cheaper Telephone Calls
8. Consumer Protection
9. Food Labelling
10. Environmental Protection

According to an The Independent article, there are fifty points. A few are moot, notably the "economic success" of countries such as Ireland, but for the most part they are most relevant.

Guardian.co.uk also offers a list of A-Z EU contributions to the UK. (Yes, they include X and Z.) Some are trivial but equally well there are some good points that reaffirm both of the articles above.

As to the idea that the EU revolves around the UK, and the EU should bow to the UK and offer daily tribute to their god - get real. Blind patriotism.

last thing I heard from a European guy:
Marc Lievremont (french nation rugby coach):
"We don't like the English"
"We don't like them and it's better to say that than be hypocritical,"
"We have a bit of trouble with the English. We respect them - well in my case at least I respect them. But you couldn't say we have the slightest thing in common with them."
Oh wow, you can quote one person who doesn't like the English :rolleyes: Do you have a poll or any other evidence that can actually support your absurd notion that the majority of Europe despise the UK and vice versa? No? Thought not.

IMO the sooner we pull out, the better it will be for the UK, we will be able to help the British youth rather than hinder their future, we would pay a lot less tax and that would benefit our economy.
sure we can lend whoever wants money, instead of just giving it to them.

how about we show Europe a place where the sun doesn't shine?
Yep, them British youth would be much better off without the option of overseas study and an environment that will support them into the future. Heck, even the radicals you quoted from that blog don't go so far as to suggest leaving the EU. You're on your own here buddy ;)
 
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DeletedUser

UK > Indivudual Countries in EU > EU.

Reasoning: British chicks.
 

DeletedUser9470

1. Easy Travel what you mean Heathrow airport was built by europe?
2. Easy Relocation LOL youve been watching relocation relocation way too much - the british passport is still the best passport to have in terms of travel, absolutely nothing to do with the EU
3. Equal Pay and Non Discrimination thats absolute BS as a uk resident and worker I can tell you absolutely nothing is equal at the moment at all
4. Paid Leave so we gave europe billions of pounds and in return we got paid leave!? are you joking?
5. Easier Foreign Study why would anyone in the uk want to go study abroad?
best schools in the world are in UK and USA we have never had any problems going abroad before I am a prime example having grown up in France and studied there.

6. Cheaper Flights what BA have lowered their prices because of EU? seriously! LOL
7. Cheaper Telephone Calls cheaper anything is to do with british markets being so huge. absolutely nothing to do with EU
8. Consumer Protection before when we were scammed e would go round and sort it out british style. now we have to go and spend ages going through huge amounts of paperwork.
put it this way, i recently brought some speakers from house of fraser, after 2 weeks i ask them where tf are my speakers to which they said "o the goods have been lost in transit". after a month waiting around and sending mail to trading standars to no avail i went to house of fraser myself, threatened to smash the whole store up until i ot myproduct. i had my speakers in my hands 5 minutes later. thank you Europe!

9. Food Labelling this does not work a all, it is a huge amount of time spent on paperwork for people who abide by the rules. and an easy thing to work around if you are on the wrong side ofthe law. put it this way: my parents are dairy farmers, they have huge amounts of paperwork for their cattle. they got rid of a few heads a couple of years ago and were promised the cattle were going straight to the abatoir. next thing we knew a guy they didnt know was trying to sell them the same cows!!! of course my paents reported this to the authorities. 2 years down the line they are still investigating.
thank you europe.

10. Environmental Protection complete and utter BS, i dont know anything about environment issues. all i can say is the water down my well has been tested and is in no way anywhere near fit for drinking.

you can cite any source you want and i will show you that at the resident level it is all complete BS. thus i havent cited anything of any interest. only a picture that i found.

daily mail sent students round to the European parliament to ask them what was going on. turns out that at 15:00 on a Thursday the place is completely vacant, all employees having gone home off duty for the week end!!!!

Yep, them British youth would be much better off without the option of overseas study and an environment that will support them into the future. Heck, even the radicals you quoted from that blog don't go so far as to suggest leaving the EU. You're on your own here buddy ;)

99% of citizens who bothered to answer want UK out of europe:
Daily express poll

on my own? i think not.
;)

UK has always fared well on its own.
 
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DeletedUser

Neo, you're digging yourself into a hole. The Irish when they were "overseen" by the British were forced to sell all their food to the British and then were turned poor. Also, the British took over the world, no one cares. The Germans try, ever body hates them.

A little reply to your last bit.

UK has fared well on its own, because it had plenty of places being taxed. Also, that was what us Irish were feeling. The people who were "supposed" to be helping us were lazy, overpaid & jealously biased continental (seeking) people.

Also, if you live in a EU country and have a passport then you can travel to other EU countries at a cheaper price, but if you don't you have a higher price.

And you're just being biased by ignoring the good things the UK has gotten out of it.
 
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DeletedUser9470

Neo, you're digging yourself into a hole. The Irish when they were "overseen" by the British were forced to sell all their food to the British and then were turned poor. Also, the British took over the world, no one cares. The Germans try, ever body hates them.

A little reply to your last bit.

UK has fared well on its own, because it had plenty of places being taxed. Also, that was what us Irish were feeling. The people who were "supposed" to be helping us were lazy, overpaid & jealously biased continental (seeking) people.

Also, if you live in a EU country and have a passport then you can travel to other EU countries at a cheaper price, but if you don't you have a higher price.

And you're just being biased by ignoring the good things the UK has gotten out of it.

good things like what?
 

Diggo11

Well-Known Member
99% of citizens who bothered to answer want UK out of europe:
Daily express poll

on my own? i think not.
;)

UK has always fared well on its own.
Well I'll be damned, you almost had me fooled with that 99% figure ;) I then read the article... written by a newspaper "on a crusade" to leave the EU. They haven't distorted the facts at all :rolleyes:

So instead I asked Google, which offered me: this. Read it for yourself, but it basically highlights the inaccuracy and bias used to swing the poll in the "crusaders" favour. It then goes on to cite more reliable statistics: according to independent polls, the percentage of responders wishing the secede from the EU ranged from 16% to 55%, an average of 36% from just those two figures. Additionally, the percentage of people who place EU membership as their highest priority has fallen dramatically down to just 1%.

daily mail sent students round to the European parliament to ask them what was going on. turns out that at 15:00 on a Thursday the place is completely vacant, all employees having gone home off duty for the week end!!!!
Cool story bro. Go research how many employees the UK and EU parliaments have, their operational hours, average salary and the parliaments' annual sitting days / hours, then come tell us how cost efficient they are. Telling me they don't work on Fridays is hardly proving anything.

good things like what?
...
you can cite any source you want and i will show you that at the resident level it is all complete BS. thus i havent cited anything of any interest. only a picture that i found.
I've provided at least 50. Perhaps in your own individual opinion they are not valuable or useful to you, and that's fine, but that does not mean they are useless to the remainder of the country. And, either way, it's 50 more things than you've told us that are actually wrong with the EU ;)

Neo, you're digging yourself into a hole. The Irish when they were "overseen" by the British were forced to sell all their food to the British and then were turned poor. Also, the British took over the world, no one cares. The Germans try, ever body hates them.

A little reply to your last bit.

UK has fared well on its own, because it had plenty of places being taxed. Also, that was what us Irish were feeling. The people who were "supposed" to be helping us were lazy, overpaid & jealously biased continental (seeking) people.

Also, if you live in a EU country and have a passport then you can travel to other EU countries at a cheaper price, but if you don't you have a higher price.

And you're just being biased by ignoring the good things the UK has gotten out of it.
UK built their wealth on exploitation, as did most other developed nations, and continue to do so today through exploiting workers in developing nations. But that's a whole other debate...

More specific to the topic, Neo is indeed being selective with those facts. Whilst improving technology is a major factor in reducing airline prices, the breaking down of borders through the EU has also contributed to this. Perhaps not useful to a dairy farmer, but those who engage in air travel around the EU frequently, the savings do add up.
 

DeletedUser

Inger-land, inger-land.....INGER-LAAAAND!

We had the largest Empire the world has ever seen and we did it without any help from Johnny Foreigner, thank you very much. We liberated the whole continent in 1945 (bit-parts by Stalin & Roosevelt) and they are still ungrateful and surly. Turn back the clock I say; Little England for ever; cricket and warm beer, vicars on bicycles.

Getting out of Europe will be difficult because we share a continental plate, but nothing can daunt a true Brit and we have some of the best oarsmen and scientists in the world, so pull away my hearties and let us find a new home in the mid-Atlantic (don't go too far though or we will have to put up with those brash Americans for neighbours).
 

DeletedUser9470

lol i was hoping we would al move to Jamaica as were all familiar with Kingston/London! :D

that said, for sure figures are only figures. but understanding what they say is a different matter. for instance, when I talk to people who are 50+ they tell me the youth nowadays is just a bunch of asbo/chav/pikeys living off mum and dads back.

indeed i agree about this. but you then have to ask yourself why?
well for one these 50 year olds never recognized being part of a huge boom, full of hugely lucrative opportunities. this is how they see the working world, as an easy, yet hard working, very lucrative world. so they think that if a youth cannot find a job he isnt trying hard enough.
fact of the matter is, there are no jobs any more, and the odd vacancy willbe filled by a mummys boy who went to oxford or cambridge, not a commoner public school guy unless amazingly good results...

this points out how the poor only get poorer and the rich get richer...
if you are 18 with no support and havent managed to get 5 A stars at your A levels then give up right now and go work in a shoe factory for minimum wage untill youre 60, 62 whats retirement age again? o its going up more and more!!!

so why is there such a shortage of jobs?
one major reason is without doubt immigration policies enforced on us by the EU.

if you are a homeless continental guy, I can get you a mansion in chelsea with gold and marble everywhere. you will get free food, and even get an allowance from our government so you can buy yourself new clothes!
why is this? because of EU regulations on extraditions enforced on the UK.
we see this in the papers every day. squatters bragging they live in a 10 million pound house, saying that if they even dared to do this in their own country they would be put in jail!
this is just one example of how helpfull europe is to the uk.
it has brought more regulations and more laws
resulting in the rich/poor rift getting bigger and bigger.
and yet instead of helping those brits in need we have to make sure our polish friend squatting illegally, has all the necessary equipment to live comfortably.
Im not having a go at the polish, if I were polis I would be living in chelsea too!
:D

and all our seniors have to say is: "youre not trying hard enough"

as for flying round europe becoming cheaper, well thats complete nonesense. ryanair lead the way buy making huge cutbacks on staff and wages.

if you want a job as a 1st officer nowadays, be prepared to pay out £80000 to oxford aviation academy and then work 5 yeas for free for ryan air to pay for your type rating.

and when you do that make sure you have over 95% success ratio at your ATPLs for ryan air are much more likely to take on an RAF pilot who has just been laid off!
why is the RAF pilot being laid off? thats right! because EU said so.

PS: Im loving all the red rep I am getting on this post. just goes to show that the pro europeans dont have the nuggets to come and defend themselves in public.
why is that? because they dont have a leg to stand on?
:D
 
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DeletedUser

Really Neo, REALLY?!

they took er jobs!!
they tooh eh johhs!!
derr derr derrrrrr!!!
derr derr!!
durka der!!

The reason you get more red reps than actual replies in the thread is because your rubbish, quite frankly, isn't worth a proper response.

Your childish whining and sub-par argumentation has earned you the following response:
captain_obvious.jpg
 
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DeletedUser28121

i have no time nor energy to try to prove your points wrong neo... being an anti-globalist and an advocate against my country's admission into the EU (Croatia), tho, i must say im saddened and discouraged by your feeble and weak arguments... i hate u for making me agree with ppl up there discrediting u and your posts :p... ppl like u (as in pure noise-makers who offer no argumentation for their claims, not ya personally) make me wanna give up my anti-uniformity struggle and go around simply baaa-ing...you damn well nearly turned me pro-Europe,ya git:mad:
 

DeletedUser

i have one point to all of you. notice that every person who actually lives in britain is agreeing with neo (me included), however, everyone who is claiming that the EU is making UK life better is not british, and therefore has no real basis to say that the EU is making our lives better because you have no firsthand experience.
i rest my case.
 
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DeletedUser

i have one point to all of you. notice that every person who actually lives in britain is agreeing with neo (me included), however, everyone who is claiming that the EU is making UK life better is not british, and therefore has no real basis to say that the EU is making our lives better because you have no firsthand experience.
i rest my case.

Another well formulated and reasoned post!

We hear exactly the same arguments in my country and we are not even part of the EU!
You might have heard of the EEA and Schengen agreements though, or if we are to judge by your post, you have not.

Your populistic nonsense and gross generalizations serves no other purpose than to portray you as a fool.

Kettle, pot.

Edit: Now take a second look at the picture I posted in the post above.
 
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DeletedUser

i have one point to all of you. notice that every person who actually lives in britain is agreeing with neo (me included), however, everyone who is claiming that the EU is making UK life better is not british, and therefore has no real basis to say that the EU is making our lives better because you have no firsthand experience.
i rest my case.
Not bothering to get involved in this topic, but I would like to point out that just because someone lives in a particular country doesn't give them special insights over and above anyone else who might have bothered to research the issue. In fact, it may very well give a degree of bias, or distortion when the flag of patriotism blocks your view of facts.

Have at it.
 
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DeletedUser

i have one point to all of you. notice that every person who actually lives in britain is agreeing with neo (me included), however, everyone who is claiming that the EU is making UK life better is not british, and therefore has no real basis to say that the EU is making our lives better because you have no firsthand experience.
i rest my case.
Sorry to ruin your observation but I'm both British and pro-EU. I'm just not interested in getting embroiled in the farrago of lies and misinformation that forms the bulk of this thread and the OP.
 

DeletedUser9470

so pro europeans came up with.... erm... NOTHING!
proves my point.
;)
 

DeletedUser

May I post this here?

(RED) GB to pull out of Europe 01.03.11 12:06 the reason why 'nobody cared' about us building the largest empire the world has ever seen was that everyone else was doing it! the french, the turks, the dutch and the prussians were all building empires as well! do your research! -tigermite-

Get your history right. The dutch never made an empire. The Prussians were hundreds of years earlier. The turks a long time earlier. The french... well failed.

Neo, you're just blaming all of UK's faults on EU.

When UK had that bit of a recession, it could of gotten worse if the EU wasn't there to help. Look at Iceland. They had a recession and since the EU weren't able to help it got even worse.

That's what the pro Europeans came up with.
 

DeletedUser9470

May I post this here?

(RED) GB to pull out of Europe 01.03.11 12:06 the reason why 'nobody cared' about us building the largest empire the world has ever seen was that everyone else was doing it! the french, the turks, the dutch and the prussians were all building empires as well! do your research! -tigermite-

Get your history right. The dutch never made an empire. The Prussians were hundreds of years earlier. The turks a long time earlier. The french... well failed.

Neo, you're just blaming all of UK's faults on EU.

When UK had that bit of a recession, it could of gotten worse if the EU wasn't there to help. Look at Iceland. They had a recession and since the EU weren't able to help it got even worse.

That's what the pro Europeans came up with.

thanks for answering.
although it was my understanding UK has bailed out Ireland? I never heard of Europe bailing out UK?
that said when you say Im blaming all UKs faults on EU. yes thats exactly what i am doing.
should we have not gone along to abiding to EU maybe we would have been in a better situation today? as a country.

but now after some debates I come to realize that its not to do with Europe its to do with our systems ie capitalist democracy. EU just emphasizes these issues.
some think that the power to be able to vote is everything in life. and that if you dont vote then you have no say at all.
voting is a nice idea, as much as marxism is a nice idea. but it is flawed. no vote will change the fact that Mr sainsbury controls how much money you spend on carrots and how much you make him/minute. no vote will change the fact that there are many other types of energy we could use but will continue to use fossil fuels because BP say so.
voting does nothing to enhance the place, it is a mere veil that controls populace through making people believe they have the power to change things through voting.
ad in most cases concerning the EU, we arent allowed to vote anyway.

As such I dont believe in supporting a flawed system. I would love to be able to give a solution and fight for it, but for one I am not knowledgeable enough, and for two, I cant be bothered to go to war with 99% of peeps, who think our systems are best things since sliced bread.

I tend to agree with Hellstromm on the patriotic front, but then that was the initial issue raised by the EU. it is impossible for all of Europe to work together with such a long and eventful history. As such EU was a bad idea in the first place. I dont see how Europe will ever improve UK. but then one could argue that it is best for EU to improve Croatia at UKs detriment, so that we could all emigrate to a nicer climate... well the rich people could anyway. as always, get rich or die trying democracy will prevail.
:D

on a more serious note:
I believe comments like "The reason you get more red reps than actual replies in the thread is because your rubbish" are pretty pathetic.
mind you i like the "inventing words" bit. argumentetation's with JR must be very interesterating?
;)
 
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