Ethnicity or Nationality?

DeletedUser

When people argue over someone betraying their people and then move on to discuss how that person supposedly betrayed their nation or their ethnic "brothers" I sometimes wonder. Which is thought of as more important, ethnicity or nationality?

Is it better to stand with people of similar physical features, culture, and ancestry? Or is it better to stand with a collection of folks who are dissimilar in many ways and whose shared trait is mainly that they live in the same country?

I understand there are concepts of being global citizens which some argue have far outmoded ethnic or national ideas, yet most people do not seem to be global citizens other than in the fact they utilize goods and services produced all over the world. Otherwise the rest of the world is of little concern to them. And it should also be noted that nationalism and ethnic pride in extremes both produce evils which can illustrate just how dark a group of humans can be.

Yet when we take the time to make an accusation of betrayal whether it be a politician like US President B. Obama or a historical figure like US general Benedict Arnold (I am not equating one with the other) is the charge more worthy of an uproar if it's based on their betrayal to their tribe or their betrayal to their nation.

So which do you think is better, standing besides ethnicity or uniting behind nationality?
 

DeletedUser

I believe there's an order of importance, but it all comes down to self-preservation (probably only in my mind.) To me, standing up for yourself is most important. Next is your immediate family. I would stand up for any family member against anyone else, but will still take my own side if there is a problem between me and a relative. Next I would say is your neighborhood. If an outsider causes trouble with a neighbor, I'd say it's in your best interest to stand up for your neighbor. On the other hand, I will almost always side with a family member over a neighbor (luckily, I never had to find out if I'd actually do that when I knew the neighbor was right to be upset.) Next would be your city, e.g. many areas of Minneapolis don't get along with each other. Sometimes it's just rivalry in sports between schools, etc., and sometimes it's fights and/or murder, but when St. Paul enters the picture, many will band together for their city (and fight for their neighborhoods later.)

It seems that the larger the group is, the lower they are in importance as far as doing anything personally; however, the common bond at all levels seems to be that you always stand up for your group (family, school, race, country, etc.) if they are threatened, attacked or in many cases just insulted, by an outsider. I think the problem that most politicians/world leaders have is that they have to reverse the order of importance. Their first concern should be not to do (or allow others to do) anything that could threaten the entire world, physically, financially, whatever. Next they should be willing to stand up for their allies (not necessarily with military force), their own country would come next, and their "ethnic group" would be somewhere below that.

I really seem to be long-winded tonight! I'd say, you should do what you can for every level, as long as it isn't going to be a problem for another one of higher importance. Ideally, it would be best that it wouldn't be a problem for a level lower in importance either, but that's not always possible.
 

DeletedUser

I think you're talking about how a person identifies themselves. The major identity areas, I can identify, are: Nationality, Race, Religion, Sexual Identity, and Social Class/Culture.

There are sub classifications which make up each identify area. For Nationality, looking at an immigrant, they could identify themselves from the country they were born in despite immigrating and being considered, legally, part of their new country. Some people move out of their country to avoid problems within it and still be loyal to it and not to their new home.

Race to me doesn't make sense.. we are all HUMANS, right? Well, that's how I view myself. Religion, just like race, it's a bit common to have people claim their religion is the correct one.

Sexual Identity, it's a bit more complex, really it is, lol. First, what gender do you identify with? Or are you transgendered (born in the opposite sexes body)? Then there is orientation and finally interest. Those three things that make up a Sexual Identity. Hopefully I'm not revealing too much, but I'm Male (not transgendered). I'm heterosexual. My sexual interest is my Fiancee (She's HOT!!!!). According to one Dr. Fedoroff it's possible to change all three things, gender, orientation, and interest. Which is how he actually cures sex offenders. Well, he just gets them to change their interest which always changes. Think about it if you disagree. After interest is orientation and then gender, in order off ascending difficulty of changing.

Social Class/Culture, my grandmother never liked any of her daughters-in-law because she viewed that her sons married below their status. Which isn't all that much since they were and still are middle class citizens (economically). My Grandmother married a farmer. Then there are cultures, the caste system that was made illegal in Nepal over 40 years ago... is still in existence because those who were above others taught their children to view themselves to be above others... even though the caste system is abolished, on paper, it still exists. Ever heard of the untouchables? I read in an article that in Nepal there is a sub-caste who were traditionally were artists(?) and concubines. Unless the girls/women get lucky and marry a man they almost end up becoming prostitutes because that's how rest of their society views them as.

As for betraying their 'ethnicity/gender/religion' all it comes down to is how prejudiced the people who say they are betraying their 'kind' view their actions in their own prejudiced point of view whether or not they actually realize it is what they are doing.

As for betraying their country... I think looking up that countries definition of 'treason' and any other applicable laws to specific situations will tell you in what way they are betraying their country.
 

DeletedUser28032

Well I once heard an Al Murray joke that i think pretty much sums it up

Two men are in a bar, ones from manchester the other is from Liverpool neither like each other because they're from rival cities, however when the Scotsman enter the bar they join forces because "they're English" a Frenchman then walks in so they join forcse with the Scotsman because "We're British" and he's not.
An American walks into the bar the Frenchman the Scotsman and the two Englishmen join forces beacuse "we're European" Aliens invade earth we all join forces because we're human.

essentially its strength in numbers, its one of the reasons why you get street gangs. You'll get a gang of Somalis kids grouping together because on your own you're liable to get attack by the locals (or a different group of immigrants from another country) yet if you've got a large group of mates with you you're safer that an also they speak the same language and have teh same culture as yourself so with them you're no longer an outsider.
 

DeletedUser16008

Whatever your sympathies identify with at the time and whos affected I guess starting with family first then locality, ethnicity, nationality, religion, class, sex, culture, affluence, species in no particular order.

There is no correct priority other than what is perceived by the individual, although society will always try to shape and affect that decision.
 

DeletedUser

To answer the OP, I would say ethnicity, though in some places, ethnicity and nationality are the same.
 

DeletedUser28032

It would depend on your situation, to me ethnicity and nationality are one and the same because I am a native Engishman living in England however if i was to move to France being English may well become more important to me than my French citzenship
 

DeletedUser16008

Where religion is concerned a lot of say Jewish or Muslim would make that a priority over nationality or race ....
 

DeletedUser

It depends on the situation though....Jews of similar nationality will tend to stick together when associating with those of other nationalities, for example.
 

DeletedUser

All group identities are just comfort blankets in an uncaring universe.
Understanding and controlling the urge to seek safety in numbers is all part of growing up.
When looked at closely it will be seen that all identification is irrational.
Trying to justify it with logic results in greater and greater absurdities and emotional spasms.
Only when a person realises that even identification with themself is foolish can they be truly free.
 
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