Eliminate stance

DeletedUser30224

Proposal: Eliminate aim/dodge stances in the duel tactics.
Current workaround: None, you must have a stance in the current system.
Details: Imagine the following: Attacker A in round 1 and 5 aims for left arm. Defender B in round 1 and 5 is dodging to the left (since they face eachother what this means is that defender is dodging away from the bullet). Sadly there is a certain percentage (~25% or so based on some research done by players) that attacker will automatically miss no matter how high his/her skills are compared to the defender. Furthermore the attacker most certainly get's a SEVERE aim penalty in this scenario because he/she is aiming at a blank space.

I'd like to see all of this removed. I can accept the random game of numbers, and there is no possible way of generating a duel mechanism that will not use randomness in one way or other, but the current system is not only wrong but also highly abuseable.

As it is now, you set your aiming and dodge stances and they stay the same until you change them again. Not only that but you only control how you dodge and aim for 4 rounds instead of 8 ... (round 1 AND 5, 2 AND 6, 3 AND 7, 4 AND 8). If another dueller duels you, all he/she needs to do is change their aim/dodge stances to match yours from the earlier report and duel you again. The victory is almost guaranteed in most cases. God forbid you are offline and you find yourself KO'd if the attacker is persistent.

That speaks volumes on itself. No matter how high your duelling skills are, another dueller can easily kill you if they find you offline and available for duel (working in defensive clothes for example).

Solution1, remove all of those penalties and just compare skills like it should be. Tactics and appearance still play a role in lowering the opponent's aim, is that not enough? Why do we need the stances? I have plenty of reports as well as other people have, where your aim and dodge is almost double of the opponent's and yet you still lose...and not by a narrow margin at all. How many KO's do you have to accumulate as a defender because you are either working or travelling and another player finds his golden chance to play with the stances and KO you?

Solution2:
If we insist on some sort of control in our duelling, then introduce other means like damage modifiers or aim/dodge penalties/bonuses:
  • aim at torso for no added damage nor aim penalty
  • aim at hands to lower opponent's aim in the next round by 20%. This will lower your damage by 30% and lowers your aim by 15% (harder to hit a smaller target)
  • aim at head for 50% extra damage. A penalty of 50% aim applies for aiming at head (small target, hard to hit).
  • "Attempting to dodge" has no penalty or advantage
  • "Focus" raises your aim by 30% while lowers your dodge by 50% (you are standing like a tree, it's easy to hit a stationary tree).
  • Set your choice for each of the 8 rounds.

Example:
full size image:Click
screenshot-en15%20the-west%20net%202014-10-04%2016-35-45_scaled.png

Round1: AIM:hands (-30% damage, -15% aim), DODGE: "focus" (+30% aim, -50% dodge) TOTAL: -30% damage, +15% aim, -50% dodge (round 2 opponent's aim is reduced by 20% IF you hit)
Round2: AIM:torso, DODGE:"attempt to dodge" TOTAL: -no dodge/aim/damage modifiers apply
Round3: AIM:hands (-30% damage, -15% aim), DODGE:"attempt to dodge" TOTAL: - -30% damage, -15% aim, (round 4 opponent's aim is reduced by 20% IF you hit)
Round4: AIM:head (+50% damage, -50% aim), DODGE: "focus" (+30% aim, -50% dodge) TOTAL: +50% damage, -20% aim, -50% dodge
Round5: AIM:hands (-30% damage, -15% aim), DODGE:"attempt to dodge" TOTAL: - -30% damage, -15% aim, (round 6 opponent's aim is reduced by 20% IF you hit)
Round6: AIM:torso, DODGE:"attempt to dodge" TOTAL: -no dodge/aim/damage modifiers apply
Round7: AIM:torso, DODGE:"attempt to dodge" TOTAL: -no dodge/aim/damage modifiers apply
Round8: AIM:head (+50% damage, -50% aim), DODGE: "focus" (+30% aim, -50% dodge) TOTAL: +50% damage, -20% aim, -50% dodge


If you use something like this (would be nice to have a say in the appearance and tactic skills as well in your duel tactics, some sort of modifiers that you can apply to each round just like with aim, dodge and damage) then it is unlikely that it can be used in an abusive fashion. After you duel someone, you do not know if the player was bad at aiming or not, they might have aimed at heads, they might have just very high dodge and crap aim, you are unlikely to find out with another duel. The beauty of it is that the randomness of how the hit/miss is calculated is just that, random. A random number between aim and dodge +(appearance/tactic modifier) is chosen and whichever is higher that is the result. Any modifiers apply before the random numbers are drawn of course.

Abuse Prevention: None that I can see. My modifiers are given as an example, I have not tried to optimize them, so a combination of them might be more favourable than other, but as I said, it is just an example, nothing more. I'm trying to prevent abuse of the current system, not introduce another form of abuse.

Summary: Remove the stances in duel tactics. They allow us to abuse the current duel system. Also it is well known that aiming badly has a terrible penalty on you and aiming good has a great bonus to aim therefore open for abuse. Solution: remove it altogether. Add damage/aim/dodge modifiers instead that are not easily readable from the duel report. Let the skills speak for themselves.
 
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DeletedUser35533

so you just want fight to be pure data ? I would vote yes.
I think things are this way to give unskilled people a chance for victory. I think this has less of a chance getting implemented than 1 hour immunity to all fort fight survivors.
 
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DeletedUser

I don't agree with removing stances/aiming in dueling. I would like to see it adjusted though. For example right now you have the ability to aim at "Hands - Easiest," "Shoulders - Moderate," "Head - Difficult."

So to adjust this why don't we have center body mass being the easiest because it is. The more aim you have the better chance of a perfect sternum shot. Adjust out from there. Make leg shots available, arm/hand shots, and of course the headshot. Everything would have a varying degree of difficulty. But aiming at hands as the easiest shot is less than realistic and honestly it's downright silly and always has been.

For dodging you could have duck, lay flat, lean to either side, side stance. Each with it's own bonus and penalty to the dodge/aim conundrum.

Just a basic outline of an idea. Obviously we'd have to work out % issues.
 

DeletedUser

Stance is now most important and only aspect of duelling that give small chance that player with lower level challenge higher level duellers. No to eliminate this.
 

DeletedUser35476

I think it would be great if we had more options in the dueling stance and aim window why not make us aim and dodge for all 8.Skills should definitely play a big role in deciding the outcome.
 

DeletedUser36011

I would have to agree with DashAkol here. Whilst stances are flawed, they are the only thing that gives lower levels a shot against higher levels. We do see a huge amount of pure dodgers these days, which are frustrating to hit. Why not just remove the automatic chance to miss, or reduce it.

You can mitigate your ability to be dueled when you are offline with a few easy ingame features. Another persons ability to be online shouldn't be punished by your ability to not be. The game continues just because you aren't online, and in some cases this is the only way a lower level would have a realistic chance of knocking a higher level out.

If we removed the duel stances as it is now, myself as a level 150 and all available gear, should theoretically have very few problems in just steamrolling every single person I come across. We'd need the additional dueling options if stances were removed. Even if they weren't removed, the additional stances are a great idea because dueling is pretty simple as it is and a small change would add something new to to the system. Change is the spice of life ;)


No to removal of stances(maybe increase to 8 choices); and yes for the extra targets+effects
 

DeletedUser36559

Yup, agree with most of the comments already made I wouldn't eliminate the stances but only increase it for all 8 rounds.
 

DeletedUser

I don't like the idea of removing stance. Enhancing the stance / targeting options would be fine with me. I could only see getting rid of stance if the impact of the duel skills were rebalanced so dueling was not reduced to an aim/dodge contest as it is now.
 

DeletedUser34315

I'd love the removal of stance. Dueling isn't very much about strategy; it's about being online more than your enemies. :/
This would elegantly fix that issue.
 

DeletedUser33342

I'm not interested in duelling and I don't understand a yota out of the idea. But if you need a vote to get the balance to "yes", let me know.
 

DeletedUser33342

I'll read this idea every day from now on and at the end of the week I'll understand it, but i like it already :)
 

DeletedUser30224

Shall we put this to a vote? Do you have any comments why this is a bad or good idea? I see that some people agree with the 8 rounds stances, while not so many are thrilled about removing the stances altogether, so I might erase the stance removal and just leave solution 2.
 

DeletedUser16628

I have no issue with voting to remove stances.The dueling end of this game needs a bump or a kick it's time for some change.
 

DeletedUser36559

You got my vote on it. Dueling needs to change for the better.
 

DeletedUser

It seems like more people are in favour of it than against it so we should put this to a vote.
 
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