Duels promote griefing

Harsha..

Well-Known Member
I would suggest you to re-read the title of the game. It's "The Wild West". Notice the term in the middle - Wild - it has been designed to be so, with an element of danger and unpredictability just as there was in the original western era. Then you had danger all the time and no one was really safe. People come to play this game, to experience that sort of thing. Duels, among other things provide that experience and without them, you won't have the same game at all.

Everytime you step in a jungle, you're basically putting yourself at considerable risk. You can fall into a trap or be eaten up by a wild animal. It's an unavoidable occupational hazard, and something you agreed to take before you voluntarily stepped into the jungle. No one forced you to step inside and if you want a safer experience, free of the risks as you describe it, you're free to go elsewhere, like a garden or a park. That's what all sensible people I know do - if they don't want the danger and risk, they go to a park rather than the jungle. You can't go to a place that advertises itself as wild, get hurt and complain it isn't fair afterwards - the world simply doesn't work that way. Not *everything* can be nice and sanitized just because you want it. Many people out there love the risk and wildness of it all and they joined the game in the first place for that.

In short, don't blame the game, bring up endless arguments about it being abuse. Just blame yourself for failing to read the sign and description at the entrance and for not choosing a game and environment more conductive to your personal tastes.
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
Ahh the classic "It is your fault I abuse you" argument. It is a garbage argument every time it gets trotted out.
game makers promote dueling. they actively encourage you to do it. duels are a part of daily tasks. they are a part of quests. there are achievements for dueling. heck - you have to duel to get protection from duels! they even disconnected job KOs from duel KOs because they don't want you to get duel protection without dueling. this is a game that's about duels as much as the other parts of the game, if not more.

The only options that allow it also have a negative penalty
bingo! because the game is designed to make you participate in duels. if you're not playing it like that - you are not playing the game like it was designed, you don't get all the benefits you could because you're not participating fully. and that's why you cannot be "immersed in the gameplay" - because your gameplay and the design of the game don't match. just like complaining about having to swim when playing water polo. still want to play? then accept the negative penalty.
 

WanderingStranger

Well-Known Member
So now its not griefing...its abuse? Quite a leap you have made. Typical whiner tactic.
Griefing is abusing a system to harass another player. Harassing someone is a type of abuse as well. I shouldnt have to explain this to someone who tried to sound so superior (yet failed so spectacularly).

game makers promote dueling. they actively encourage you to do it. duels are a part of daily tasks. they are a part of quests. there are achievements for dueling. heck - you have to duel to get protection from duels! they even disconnected job KOs from duel KOs because they don't want you to get duel protection without dueling. this is a game that's about duels as much as the other parts of the game, if not more.
Yet again. NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT EVERY DUEL.

In short, don't blame the game, bring up endless arguments about it being abuse. Just blame yourself for failing to read the sign and description at the entrance and for not choosing a game and environment more conductive to your personal tastes.
Just like Pankreas you are also pretending someone said every duel is griefing.

ffs it is like talking to children. we already know the system promotes abuse because the devs have actively worked to prevent it and have changed aspects for just that reason. This is point every single one of you keep conveniently ignoring.
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
Griefing is abusing a system to harass another player. Harassing someone is a type of abuse as well. I shouldnt have to explain this to someone who tried to sound so superior (yet failed so spectacularly).

Yet again. NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT EVERY DUEL.
IT DOESN'T MATTER (since it seems we started shouting).
it's a game that (largely) consists of dueling. if you're terrible at it, and people use this fact to get their daily bonds, get money, finish quests, accumulate town points etc. - they're not abusing anything, they are playing the game as it was designed and you are making it easier for them because you are not. when Liverpool beat Arsenal 5-1 it wasn't "griefing", it was one team that played football well, and one that didn't. same with this - one player plays The West, and the other one plays Farmville or something.


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I almost missed this part:

the devs have actively worked to prevent it and have changed aspects for just that reason. This is point every single one of you keep conveniently ignoring.
just like you are conveniently ignoring the fact how they are promoting dueling and how they have removed the option to be protected from duels by job-KOs. because they want players to duel. you don't? wrong game. you're not harassed. you're just bad at the game or you don't accept the negative penalty for playing the game in a way it wasn't intended.
 
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Half-Breed Sioux

Active Member
One thing I have liked about the west is it’s versatility. “Experience new lands and experience - - - adventure” as well as dueling, so it says on the main page and an “RPG” on the Inno page.

In my mind the RPG perspective means that someone can be a cowpoke, a no good outlaw, a sheriff, a soldier, a cowboy with a fast gun, a greenhorn sod buster (farmer) or even a Texan. In short they can be a character of their choice. It can be about dueling but doesn’t need to be about dueling at all too. And if dueling-not effects something in the game play then so be it.

Just because someone says and thinks the game is for dueling or fort fighting or farming or any other west activity doesn’t mean that is how the game needs to be played. Each player can decide on how they wish to play it within the boundaries of the general rules of course.

In the end the question of whether or not dueling is griefing ... is really about the feelings of a player brought about as a result of how a person views the interaction here.

If a player is being a general pain in the donkey well perhaps that is what they are = in role playing terms that is. Try not to take it too personal as they are just acting like little cactus pointy thingies?
 
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WanderingStranger

Well-Known Member
it's a game that (largely) consists of dueling. if you're terrible at it, and people use this fact to get their daily bonds, get money, finish quests, accumulate town points etc. - they're not abusing anything, they are playing the game as it was designed and you are making it easier for them because you are not.
Griefing is always the abuse of a system in a game so it doesnt matter that it is part of the game and your point is idiotic because you keep treating it as if we are talking about every duel.

and dont think I didnt notice you STILL ignored my point just to repeat more of the same nonsense.
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
Just because someone says and thinks the game is for dueling or fort fighting or farming or any other west activity doesn’t mean that is how the game needs to be played. Each player can decide on how they wish to play it within the boundaries of the general rules of course.
exactly! but you also need to accept the negative sides of your choice. that's what it's about. in a hostile environment with PvP game elements, you cannot be a corn picker and complain that someone else is a dueler who "harasses" you. I mean, this is the plot of almost every western movie, and this is a RPG. if you choose to be a peaceful farmer, don't complain that someone else picked to be a bandit.

Griefing is always the abuse of a system in a game so it doesnt matter that it is part of the game and your point is idiotic because you keep treating it as if we are talking about every duel.

and dont think I didnt notice you STILL ignored my point just to repeat more of the same nonsense.
and where exactly is the abuse? you're playing the weak peaceful farmer in this RPG, I play the bandit. you're losing duels? your choice. the game promotes dueling, game designers made it so that you have to duel to be protected from duels or face other negative consequences like being townless if you want to be protected.
and I am not talking about every duel. I am talking specifically about a player in work or luck gear with low DL, not skilled for duels, and a player with dueling gear and dueling skills who is attacking that first player 5 times every day, using a low damage weapon to avoid a KO but still getting XP, cash and boosting their stats. the poor farmer can't be immersed in their gameplay in The West? seriously? in a game designed to reward you for dueling, where they ask you to duel in quests? where they have removed duel protection from job KOs? where they gave you options - like duel KO or going townless if you don't want to participate in this PvP part of the game? you only want the good stuff? nope. you cannot be good at everything, and you cannot only get the rewards. accept the good and the bad. this is the wild west. you have the weapon slot in your equipment for a reason.


It also conveniently ignores that the most popular anti-dueling method was added exactly to prevent abuse
you're conveniently ignoring the fact "that the most popular anti-dueling method" was removed. job KOs? ring any bells? now, why would they do this if they want to give you an easy way out of dueling? hmmmm...
 
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Snr Sarg

Well-Known Member
Griefing is always the abuse of a system in a game so it doesnt matter that it is part of the game and your point is idiotic because you keep treating it as if we are talking about every duel.
How is dueling "abusing a system in the game"
 
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Half-Breed Sioux

Active Member
How is dueling "abusing a system in the game"

I guess we should all learn that you can't argue with the village idiot
I want to see both sides of a discussion and so do ..

exactly! but you also need to accept the negative sides of your choice. that's what it's about. in a hostile environment with PvP game elements, you cannot be a corn picker and complain that someone else is a dueler who "harasses" you. I mean, this is the plot of almost every western movie, and this is a RPG. if you choose to be a peaceful farmer, don't complain that someone else picked to be a bandit.
as a farmer might do well to complain to the sheriff with $ in hand or ask a town member to come my aid. (Clint Eastwood's stranger in the movie High Plains Drifter) but it would also be nice see a potential abuser locked up for a while in the town jail -:D

This discussion is interesting and almost goes well with a question like do violent video games promote violence? I'm inclined to think no they do not but possibly violent people might be attracted to them? This discussion on griefing raises a question on role playing as an abusive character; is it acceptable for every other players experience?

For myself I've done both. I have been a worker that never duels with even the worst outlaw who comes my way and a dueler who shoots for profit and wounded a nun. It should be all in fun but can't say shooting the nun even in role play make me feel good about my gaming experience.
 

WanderingStranger

Well-Known Member
How is dueling "abusing a system in the game"
Not every duel is but some duels can be. (We already have evidence of this ffs. It isnt a hard concept despite the number of times I have been forced to repeat it)

It is apparently useless to point this out to people who refuse to read so I am not going to bother anymore. It is like playing chess with pigeons when you try to have a discussion about dueling here.
 

Snr Sarg

Well-Known Member
Not every duel is but some duels can be. (We already have evidence of this ffs. It isnt a hard concept despite the number of times I have been forced to repeat it)
No, sorry, no duels are "abusing a system in the game". As to your bleating on about how many times you've explained, I read the whole thread 5000 times and could not find a reasonable explanation, just bleating.

I have to assume you are a noobie and don't know what the game is all about. Dueling was, is and always will be part of this game, if you don't like it then get the hell out of town.

It is apparently useless to point this out to people who refuse to read so I am not going to bother anymore.
Please don't, it'll be a welcome relief for all involved
 

Nisa

The West Team
Marshal
GM Master
Deputy Sheriff
I will add my 2 cents to this. I am not a dueler , only doing it for quests when I want to Ko myself or occasionally duel back. I believe many pointed out this is not about ALL and every duel, but yet it is not about specific duels either. So this is about duels in general.

Dueling is a part of the game.Period. Game is designed that way and whoever wants it removed is playing the wrong game.

Abusing. We have RULES for that.With reason. All areas should be covered with our rules, because you can abuse system in every feature of the game.Dueling someone is NOT abusing. Even when skilled dueler is dueling worker or someone in speed gear. As a player I got Koed many times, and lost energy, and HP and cash. So did many other players. How on earth it could be abuse.

As a support member I will say players are reporting other players cuase they dueled them . I think it is support abuse. And it happens because players refuse to accept the dueling as part of the game.

Griefing can also be a positive thing. I saw players running to fort battle to get their revenge because they dont have a chance if they duel back but still can get sort of revenge in fort battle. So it also promotes activity.

Protect yourself. You have ways.
 

Half-Breed Sioux

Active Member
Original post asked if dueling promoted griefing not abuse. I'm inclined to agree and say yes in some instances. If someone takes an axe and drives into your skull (not for real but virtually) it could be considered offensive duh! However opposition could be a positive thing as well in ways perhaps people have not yet thought of. Thanks for starting this thread as it was thought provoking.
 

deiben

Well-Known Member
For historical reference to this game, there was DUELING before there were fort fights, pants, crafting, town markets, the cinema, a friends list, events, hearts and eggs and flowers, and the list goes on on on

So a simple question is: How can dueling be any sort of grief when it was one of the primary cornerstones of the game when it was started?

Hold on... I can answer my own question.....

"Oh.... Oh, I got dueled today and lost $32 of my hard earned jobbing money. I'm butt hurt and now have to go into griefing."

Ok, Precious..... Man up.
 

Harsha..

Well-Known Member
Not every duel is but some duels can be. (We already have evidence of this ffs. It isnt a hard concept despite the number of times I have been forced to repeat it)

It is apparently useless to point this out to people who refuse to read so I am not going to bother anymore. It is like playing chess with pigeons when you try to have a discussion about dueling here.
Basically, you're complaining that duels can be abused in certain circumstances by certain players to harass others. What really doesn't make sense is that there are so many ways to deal with it. Leave town, self KO, reskill. It's a perfectly solvable problem. The point where it becomes bad is when you can't do anything about it and it stops you from enjoying the game altogether.

Have you played Tribalwars before? - it's a game, where you start off with one village and over months, you acquire more villages. Overnight, you could lose everything. It's equivalent in The West would be a player attacking you and causing you to go from level 150 to 20 in a single night. It's a completely merciless game and is only one of hundred others on the market. There are games, where you can open a list of ALL players, and instantaneously attack any one of them and take everything they have. In these games, other players can genuinely stop you from enjoying or progressing further, and you can't do anything about it. Duels are nothing compared to things on there.

I played Tribalwars for many years and lost everything many times. Rather than go on the Tribalwars forums and whine on how unfair the system is and how much I have been "abused", I just knew the game wasn't for me and stopped playing. While it's not a game to my tastes, I know many other people out there like it as it was created and I respected that.

The problem as far as I can see it is you have difficulties accepting reality.
 

Smiggy28

Well-Known Member
wow this is a funny read :D

the OP's title of this thread implies that ALL duels are griefing not just some duels are, well that was my interpretation of it anyway.

Griefing??? a made up word for whiners/bad players to complain about the game they're crap at playing! SMH what is the world becoming! they'll want a medal for coming last in a race next!

if you feel you someone is "Griefing" you? (seriously i hate that word) then instead of whining do something about it!

can a Mod just delete this stupid, pointless thread :D
 

Half-Breed Sioux

Active Member
I'm not complaining about the west, I like it. I don't mind honest dueling at all as it adds some needed evil to the game. It would be interesting however if dueling had two roles. One where the challenged could either duel back or walk away branded a coward or two dueling which took place without agreement would get the dueler labeled as a thief or murder. Then they could be hunted down by a posse and possibly end up in prison or hanged. :cool:

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