DeletedUser23728
This change has screwed melee duelers big time. Ranged duelers were always superior in terms of damage inflicting and now they'll literally own melee duelers.
Duelling Formula Feedback Thread
- Thread starter Diggo11
- Start date
DeletedUser28620
So Deathwing let me get this right:
Basically what you're saying is:"Now i own ALL melee duelers, so i like it this way. For me this means "balanced game". Thank you devs for giving me 100% win against melee."
A melee dueler with 300 reflex was focused on beating only ranged enemies and lost against other melee builds. So its obvious he usually won against you. But now even those people lose against you. So you think that's normal. A guy that made an anti-ranged build loses against you 100% of times and its balanced for you.
You say there are very good melee builds right now. Which one please bless me with your wisdom, tell me what melee build owns a ranged build.
Basically what you're saying is:"Now i own ALL melee duelers, so i like it this way. For me this means "balanced game". Thank you devs for giving me 100% win against melee."
A melee dueler with 300 reflex was focused on beating only ranged enemies and lost against other melee builds. So its obvious he usually won against you. But now even those people lose against you. So you think that's normal. A guy that made an anti-ranged build loses against you 100% of times and its balanced for you.
You say there are very good melee builds right now. Which one please bless me with your wisdom, tell me what melee build owns a ranged build.
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DeletedUser16008
A mobility build, most AP on mobility a few on str and the SP on reflex dodge and aim One with about 350 reflex will still own most ranged and dodge well for melee your only problem is hitting them but stand red and hope you get one in will be enough most of the time. Of course youll hit like a girl and lose to most other builds but hey you wanted to know how a melee can own ranged... Or you can just have a str pure AP build for forts and dump all skill points into aim and dodge and hope to get the better of them at their own style of build... youll still get owned by toughness duelers but if your lucky youll dodge them
DeletedUser
No. What I am saying now is melee resistance duelers aren't bullet proof anymore. Now it takes more skills to build a character. it's not just drop ap in str and sp in reflex. You have to take into account that to much of one skill will end up biting you. Of course melee duelers will complain, like they did about the Fancy soft leg guards. And of course the 4 years in which solider melee resistance duelers have been almost undefeated is being ignored. I mean poor resistance duelers... Now duels aren't just about chance anymore. Aim and dodging have been almost completely useless. I haven't changed my dueling build in w3 and in w5 at all. And yet I am getting better results now. Why? Easy: because aim and dodging finally matter for something. And don't even start complaining about ranged being op. I've have 200 dodging for the past year or so and the only reason I lost to res duelers was because the system was set so that you automatically had a chance to land hits regardless of aim. But wait, that was balanced right Rider? And of course all the jobs at which resistance duelers had access to(hunt rattle snakes, white water transport, mine saltpeter etc.) while skills like dodging and aiming give you squat.
DeletedUser28620
Ok then, the system is balanced now and with your aim/dodge/shoot build you win 50% of the duels against melee players of your level. Is that correct?
DeletedUser
Having a win rate of 50% does not mean balanced. Specially since there is still a luck factor involved in dueling. Also my win rate is higher as I have focused on offense and I'm not attacked that often. People avoid me for some reason :laugh:. But when I am attacked my win rate is around 25% if not lower. Melee resistance duelers were bullet proof regardless of weather they attacked or defended how ever. So even if only from this regard I'd say the new system is more balanced.
And you earlier said somethin about Melee resistance duelers who focused on reflex as being easy picks for other melee duelers and that's not true. Reflex counted as 50% resistance towards toughness(and vice versa). That means 300 reflex would translate to 150 toughness, add another 150 toughness from strength and clothing and you'd have 300+ toughness. And another thing that slipped my mind is melee duelers, and soldiers specially, have an extra advantage over ranged duelers(be it by class or not) and that is the 50% hp bonus from every point invested in hp. 100 str means 100points in hp. the solider class bonus for that is 500 hp. It takes a lot more damage to ko a melee solider dueler than any other class dueler.
And you earlier said somethin about Melee resistance duelers who focused on reflex as being easy picks for other melee duelers and that's not true. Reflex counted as 50% resistance towards toughness(and vice versa). That means 300 reflex would translate to 150 toughness, add another 150 toughness from strength and clothing and you'd have 300+ toughness. And another thing that slipped my mind is melee duelers, and soldiers specially, have an extra advantage over ranged duelers(be it by class or not) and that is the 50% hp bonus from every point invested in hp. 100 str means 100points in hp. the solider class bonus for that is 500 hp. It takes a lot more damage to ko a melee solider dueler than any other class dueler.
DeletedUser
I guess you missed that part of the dueling changes. Resistance was nerfed: the 50% was removed.
DeletedUser
No I didn't Elm. If you look carefully you'll notice I used past tense.
And "nerfed doesn't mean useless". I'm not a developer or tester so I don't know what the exact % with which the effectiveness of res skills was actually decreased but from what I've noticed in w3 and 5 the effectiveness of reflex has been cut in half.
And "nerfed doesn't mean useless". I'm not a developer or tester so I don't know what the exact % with which the effectiveness of res skills was actually decreased but from what I've noticed in w3 and 5 the effectiveness of reflex has been cut in half.
DeletedUser
Oops, so you did.
DeletedUser
I actually think there was balance between builds before the update. I've played both a typical ranged dueler and a resistance dueler, and I was definitely a fan of the rock-paper-scissors style system. A high shooter would beat resistance, a resistance would beat the dodge/charisma dueler, and the dodge/charisma dueler would beat the high shooter. It seemed to me that many duelers wanted a "beat all" build where they could just have one main build and be able to win against everyone else.
Now, I feel like there is just one main build. Although this is still balance in a sense, I still preferred the previous system, but now we all just have to adapt.
DeletedUser28620
If you are lvl 120 and you win 99% of duels against lvl 120 melee duelers, than YOU are overpowered. Use your head and stop making excuses.
Also you say soldiers have tactics bonus for blablabla what does that have to do with resistance duelers?
Wait did you just say you lose 75% of duels against melee of your own level when defending?????
Everyone having the same build and balance are two different things. But i agree with you on the rest.
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DeletedUser
If you win 99% of your duels it doesn't necessarily means you're overpowered or even a good dueler. It just means you attack weak targets.
And any way how would be me winning now 99% of my attacks be any diffrent than having resistance duelers win 99% of their attacks and defenses? And you're saying ranged duelers are opd?
And yes when I am the one defending my win rate is at around 25%(which for anyone who can do simple additions and subtractions translates into 75% lose rate) regardless of weather my opponent is ranged or melee. why because my build is made specially for attacks.
As for only having 1 build it's not true. I've been talking with some melee fighters and from what I see if the difference between vigor and toughness is to big resistance is just as effective. One of the last reports I saw was from a defender with 350 thoughnes. Not sure what the vigor of the attacker was but he only landed 30-50 hits. Both players were 120, both melee. Now I am not sure about reflex since in both the worlds I play as a dueler there aren't that many players left with reflex over 200 but I am assuming if toughness is like this than so is reflex.
And any way how would be me winning now 99% of my attacks be any diffrent than having resistance duelers win 99% of their attacks and defenses? And you're saying ranged duelers are opd?
And yes when I am the one defending my win rate is at around 25%(which for anyone who can do simple additions and subtractions translates into 75% lose rate) regardless of weather my opponent is ranged or melee. why because my build is made specially for attacks.
As for only having 1 build it's not true. I've been talking with some melee fighters and from what I see if the difference between vigor and toughness is to big resistance is just as effective. One of the last reports I saw was from a defender with 350 thoughnes. Not sure what the vigor of the attacker was but he only landed 30-50 hits. Both players were 120, both melee. Now I am not sure about reflex since in both the worlds I play as a dueler there aren't that many players left with reflex over 200 but I am assuming if toughness is like this than so is reflex.
DeletedUser28620
I stopped reading there.
Edit: You know very well im talking about attacking people of your own level. Im gonna say it again because i see you're kinda slow:
If you attack resistance duelers of your own level and you win 99%, you are overpowered and they are over nerfed. Also you dont lose 75% against resistance duelers when defending, that's BS we both know it...
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DeletedUser
To be honest I don't see what's to discuss, whether melee or ranged there is only one build that is viable, it's all about aim and dodge. Both those skills are well over-powered and it has reduced dueling to a lottery. maybe different below level 95 but above that you'll get creamed 75% of the time time if you try anything else IMO.
DeletedUser16008
Spot on, although shooter build has a massive advantage due to both aim and shoot being on the same colour... melee cannot get that extra 140 odd points added to aim shooters can.
Im having a riot with my shooters and now it dosnt matter what class you have soldiers bonus becomes irrelevant and tactics are useless vs them.
Been testing for weeks now and im gonna stick to my very first opinion before update happened.... there is only one build over lvl 100 worth thinking about if your a serious dueller... JR just spelled it out... when the same build meets its a lottery
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DeletedUser
Case in point Vic, and to support that, you're recent attack on me on W9:
Roughly 120 SP each on Dodge and Aim, all AP on Strength, something like 120 SP (naked) on tactics (you caught me in the middle of a respecc away from Cha...!), the results weren't close as you know.
On a whim I decided to attack while I still had some high App (Maybe about 100 there too) other stats still the same. Would you say it made a difference? LOL.... Big fat NO.
So yeah, all aim and dodge are pwn'ng now. But enough sacrificed into resistance build can still keep you ticking along on other worlds (but not as dominant as it was before).
Roughly 120 SP each on Dodge and Aim, all AP on Strength, something like 120 SP (naked) on tactics (you caught me in the middle of a respecc away from Cha...!), the results weren't close as you know.
On a whim I decided to attack while I still had some high App (Maybe about 100 there too) other stats still the same. Would you say it made a difference? LOL.... Big fat NO.
So yeah, all aim and dodge are pwn'ng now. But enough sacrificed into resistance build can still keep you ticking along on other worlds (but not as dominant as it was before).
DeletedUser14793
Duel system is sooo broke its not even funny. I think this update was the straw that broke the camels back, think i may just delete all my characters and save myself the headache.
DeletedUser9470
I have never understood this change.
What this has changed:
-Dueller vs non Dueller has become more of a difference (now i dont ever get hit! okaaaay!:S)
-Dueller vs Dueller has become uninteresting
Before this there weren't any problems, there were no proper duellists who know duelling inside out who were complaining about the system.
instead there were non duellists who aren't anywhere near as active as us duellers complaining they were being kod, and a few noobs saying that resist was overpowered.
(only a bit, but nothing to cry about, go resist killer build and get over it!)
So what gives?
Inno listen to players who don't even duel and aren't as active or dedicated, or players who don't have a clue?...
For me they have messed half the game up.
Coming soon to a town near you: We mess up fort fights for everyone's pleasure!
What this has changed:
-Dueller vs non Dueller has become more of a difference (now i dont ever get hit! okaaaay!:S)
-Dueller vs Dueller has become uninteresting
Before this there weren't any problems, there were no proper duellists who know duelling inside out who were complaining about the system.
instead there were non duellists who aren't anywhere near as active as us duellers complaining they were being kod, and a few noobs saying that resist was overpowered.
(only a bit, but nothing to cry about, go resist killer build and get over it!)
So what gives?
Inno listen to players who don't even duel and aren't as active or dedicated, or players who don't have a clue?...
For me they have messed half the game up.
Coming soon to a town near you: We mess up fort fights for everyone's pleasure!
DeletedUser14793
exactly Neo, non duelers dont even stand a chance of registering a hit now, whereas dueler vs dueler is a roll of the dice. maybe its time to become a fortfighter or something...
DeletedUser16008
Naaa you dont need a fort fighter build to be any good thats all about LOS and not much else... waste of a build imo...
Tbh if all you enjoy is duelling people that cant hit back which lets be fair most 0 motivators who do it for a long period are about then this change should make the game even more fun for you.
The concept of duelling other duellers and losing isnt the issue as it used to be all part of the challenge and diff builds kept it interesting ( at least for me ) its a sad fact that now there's only 1 build of any significance and when you meet the same its mostly based on guesswork.
Im sure most people who play and arnt in it for the duel dont care a jot and are happy, especially the fort fighters with dodge and aim...