Duelling Formula Feedback Thread

-Neo-

Banned
+1 to vics post.
Well of course it would be easier if they were lower level!
I stand by my statement that it has NEVER been easy to KO resists, especially higher levelers.
before, imho, it was never easy to ko a pure duellist, no matter what build.

my charisma dueling stats:
Duels as defender: 579
Knocked out in a duel: 17 (attacking: 15 defending: 2)

Whenever I saw a resist I felt sorry for them, knowing they werent having anywhere near the fun I was because of their poor decision to use the most boring duel build in this game, even when they were winning against me i didnt care one iota.

so this update was all about taking away different ways of playing the game.
i think restrictions on an already restricted game is a big mistake from inno. Au contraire, they should be making the game more diversified to attract more players...
 

Judge R Bean

+1 to vics post.


before, imho, it was never easy to ko a pure duellist, no matter what build.

my charisma dueling stats:
Duels as defender: 579
Knocked out in a duel: 17 (attacking: 15 defending: 2)

Whenever I saw a resist I felt sorry for them, knowing they werent having anywhere near the fun I was because of their poor decision to use the most boring duel build in this game, even when they were winning against me i didnt care one iota.

so this update was all about taking away different ways of playing the game.
i think restrictions on an already restricted game is a big mistake from inno. Au contraire, they should be making the game more diversified to attract more players...
I'll agree with that....
 

dgorsk

Well-Known Member
well i took hellstroms advice and tested my build against some NPC's, turns out aim is SUPER OVERPOWERED!!! since a NPC with 13 aim hit me 6 times when i have 170 dodge. Damn gonna reskill to a pure aim build now!! ;)
 

Hellstromm

good, dgorsk, do more tests and present it here. And yes Vic, please provide more examples. If you are able to also indicate build-types, I'm sure that would help tremendously.

Also, please present all duels, not merely the ones that support your assertions. IF Inno is to make adjustments, they need accurate information or they'll merely tip it too far in the opposite direction.
 

Jesse James

Really????? I've never known it to be easy even with golden, certainly
not against players who are LVL95 plus. My resists (before update) used to get KO'd about once every
three months, and that was only when I got 4/5 players ganging up. Wish I'd have seen this magical build!
It obviously depends on the server.In my server[w1] I ko'ed every single resistance dueler
[and most of them were L100 +] regularly with my golden colt. :cool:

No longer a dueler so don't care about the new change,appreciate the free re-spec though. :)
 

Morgan Caine

Well-Known Member
Sorry but guys who claim to have KOed pure resist duelers in less than 5-6 consecutive duels obviously never met a successfully made resist build, golden or no.
 

Victor Kruger

Well-Known Member
Sorry but guys who claim to have KOed pure resist duelers in less than 5-6 consecutive duels obviously never met a successfully made resist build, golden or no.
Certainly 2 or 3 duels if the dueler is good can easily be done doing 1500 damage + 4.5k will take out any resist, but i do agree if that resist is good youll take 4 or 5 times to put him down... thats of course if your still standing if hes getting a shot or 3 in and having a go back at you... used to have good fun just standing red and then returning the duel ... after that return duel often the shooter would go pop anyway.
 
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Jesse James

Sorry but guys who claim to have KOed pure resist duelers in less than 5-6 consecutive duels obviously never met a successfully made resist build, golden or no.
It never took me more than 3.
Anyway if you think you are better than every single resistance dueler in
w1 well good for you! :p
 

Morgan Caine

Well-Known Member
There are of course a lot of people who put points in every dueling skill and they are indeed easy to win and KO with every build, but I don't call them resist builds - I call them easy money. A resist dueler was someone you could only -slap no matter what weapon you had. Of course they were easy to beat because they couldn't hit anything smaller than a barn, but to KO them was a different matter entirely.
 

Judge R Bean

There are of course a lot of people who put points in every dueling skill and they are indeed easy to win and KO with every build, but I don't call them resist builds - I call them easy money. A resist dueler was someone you could only -slap no matter what weapon you had. Of course they were easy to beat because they couldn't hit anything smaller than a barn, but to KO them was a different matter entirely.
Spot on, of course you could KO them if you went complete toughness/resist but that would be limiting your oppenents to melee only, and leave you completely open to being trashed by ranged duelers, which I have done in the past.
But in reality of course most duelers won't take that build andit is nonesense to say resist duelers were easy to KO.
 

DraGonFlyBG

Well-Known Member
I have never had any problems to KO resistance duelers if i am skilled as anti-resistance (ofc if they arent more than 10-12 lvls higher than me) and especially if i am using all heads.I needed 1-3 duels Max.

The hardest for KO-s were the power duelers - charisma based melee players.

@dgorsk

You should have been extremely unlucky vs that NPC.Aim for sure is not overpowered.I often fight stand vs players with not so high aim and still they cant hit me most of the times.
 

Jesse James

Spot on, of course you could KO them if you went complete toughness/resist but that would be limiting your oppenents to melee only, and leave you completely open to being trashed by ranged duelers, which I have done in the past.
But in reality of course most duelers won't take that build andit is nonesense to say resist duelers were easy to KO.
Yeah just because I don't agree with you I don't know what a resist build is. :laugh:

Anyway I got my reports posted all over the forum, can't see any reason to drag this topic.:no:
 

Judge R Bean

Yeah just because I don't agree with you I don't know what a resist build is. :laugh:

Anyway I got my reports posted all over the forum, can't see any reason to drag this topic.:no:
I don't know what you are replying to but I can't see any post to say you don't know what resist build is?
If you don't even understand what's being said then how can you even make an informed reply?
Anyway it's all irrelavent now as resist doesn't exist anymore.
 

nietszche

. . .

Also, please present all duels, not merely the ones that support your assertions. IF Inno is to make adjustments, they need accurate information or they'll merely tip it too far in the opposite direction.
As we can't know the formula is used in Duels, we must have a loooot of Duels to try to guess how they work... :mad:
That's what I've doing, saving and saving information... :hmf:

I share a big number of Duels I've done against NPC, where I show my Habilities, it's Habilities, stance and where I aim, no secrets... :p

For each Duel there are at least 2 pictures, accordingly named so we can know which NPC picture go with its Duel and the challenger Habilities and stance... :D

http://www.gigasize.com/get/l1jg33n3lhc
and the same one here
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=SKPV0N3Q



I do really need help to take conclusions from them, but I can say:




Resistances:
The "new formula" is: 100% primary Resistance + 25% secundary Resistance
(25% was nerfed from 50%)

I don't have any doubt on it, if the shooting is equal to 100% Reflex + 25% Toughness we do the damage shown in the weapon.
If we hace 20+ we breake the Resistance, if we have -20 we already see the weapon's damage ir significantly reduced... :cool:



Aim and Dodging (and Appearance and Tactics):
_ If you shoot where your opponent is not dodging (red) you have big chances of hitting
_ If you shoot where your opponent is dodging (green) you have almost none chance of hitting

With 350 Aiming y never couldn't land 8 hits to NPC with less than 10 Dodging (and beeing my appearecen higher than their tactics)



All this was tested with differents builds (only Aim and Dodge, less Aim and Dodge but more Appearance) and I can't see any differences...
IMHO, having a lot of Dodge increases the chance of dodging if your opponent aimed you where you were not dodging (red) and I can't see whats the point of having a loooot of Aim...

I haven't tested having a lot more Appearance than Tactics (difference bigger than 200 or 300) but I really think isn't important... But, I do have it in mid for after my vacations, jajajaja... :cool:



I'm really looking forward for your opinions!!!!
Regards.
 
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Hellstromm

Thank you for the research and the info provided nietzche (inclusive of the file).

Edit: I did wish to correct you regarding Stances. The Dodging skill still participates, regardless of whether Stance is chosen correctly. Choosing the wrong stance does not eliminate the Dodging skill benefits, only reduces the effectiveness of it.
 
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l8dygaga

Well-Known Member
Ok, it seems to me that appearance and tactics work like fort skills now, with diminishing returns. Have not done that many duels though, but it seems correct when i look at other peoples results as well.
 

DraGonFlyBG

Well-Known Member
@nietszche

If your opponent hits you in your red zone, you still have your dodging, just your opponent aim gets doubled.

About the appearance thing.On w10 i have reskilled in near 400 appearance and have 40-50 aim with clothes.Most of the time i land 2-5 hits versus players, who have 240-260 dodge and i am winning 90 % of the duels.So the appearance is working nice imo.
Well, if they attack me i usually cant hit shhit though, but its normal :)
 
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-Neo-

Banned
@nietszche

If your opponent hits you in your red zone, you still have your dodging, just your opponent aim gets doubled.

About the appearance thing.On w10 i have reskilled in near 400 appearance and have 40-50 aim with clothes.Most of the time i land 2-5 hits versus players, who have 240-260 dodge and i am winning 90 % of the duels.So the appearance is working nice imo.
Well, if they attack me i usually cant hit shhit though, but its normal :)
so why do i get results like this:

???
im showing 200 appearance, 130 aim, 130 dodge, 200 tactics with premium.

if the guy put his AP on dext showing about 90 aim 90 shoot, and then put all his 264 sps into dodge...

for me appearance only has proper resuts vs non duelers, any good dueler (ie dext build) and appearance and tactics go down the drain.
 
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nietszche

. . .

Edit: I did wish to correct you regarding Stances. The Dodging skill still participates, regardless of whether Stance is chosen correctly. Choosing the wrong stance does not eliminate the Dodging skill benefits, only reduces the effectiveness of it.
If your opponent hits you in your red zone, you still have your dodging, just your opponent aim gets doubled.
I tried to say that here:
"having a lot of Dodge increases the chance of dodging if your opponent aimed you where you were not dodging (red)" but thanks for the clarification... :D


What I still can't undestand is when I can't land 8 hits in situations like these:

[spoil]

[/spoil]
[spoil]

[/spoil]
[spoil]

[/spoil]


I can't imagine a formula in which this combination of Abilities and Stance doesn't give us more than 25% on hitting...
I think this is the biggest bug from the beginnigs oh the Game, jajajaja... :hmf:

Regards.
 
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l8dygaga

Well-Known Member
Appearance/Tactics - still think it's diminishing returns. You have 400, that is just too much. You should see how you do vs. someone with 50/100/200/300. I think wont see much difference when they have 100 and up.

@nietszche: Alright, you're going for all heads, which means your opponent is dodging correctly (green). If his/her dodge is not really low, it means a multiplier for dodging correctly can't be doing that. So my guess is, there is a flat bonus involved for dodging correctly now. Maybe on top of a multiplier.