Duelling Formula Feedback Thread

[DeletedUser]

Wasn't the only change to resistance supposed to be removing 50% reflex vs. melee and toughness vs. ranged, or was it supposed to be weakened besides that? Dueling isn't my thing, but I had said in one of my town forums that I thought specialized resistance should still work.

I'm not really sure, but after all the talk about nerfing resistance I was expecting different results to this.
Thing is I don't like playing resistance, this is really just a test world, I was sort of hoping this result wasn't going to happen.

 

[DeletedUser30834]

I'm finding my resist build even stronger after the update.
This build is only set-up to duel melee, everything is in stregnth, aim/vigor/toughness.
So far my toughness seems to be working exactly the same, opponents can't hit me any harder than they could before update except now I hit them 6/7/8 times a duel whereas before it was 2/3/4, most unexpected....:laugh:

but what kind of opponents are you dueling? i noticed from your stats that you are more of a casual dueler then some. you have what 147 wins to 70 losses which isn't bad, but are you going up against pure duelers or workers and quest'rs? I'm only trying to get a perspective here- even though that sounds condescending- it wasn't meant that way. I'm doing better when going after jobbers and part time duelers but get wasted going up against a serious shooter or someone 10 or more levels higher then me. I'm still tweaking things and it isn't as bad as when the update first came out, but it isn't anything worth keeping either.

 

[DeletedUser]

but what kind of opponents are you dueling? i noticed from your stats that you are more of a casual dueler then some. you have what 147 wins to 70 losses which isn't bad, but are you going up against pure duelers or workers and quest'rs? I'm only trying to get a perspective here- even though that sounds condescending- it wasn't meant that way. I'm doing better when going after jobbers and part time duelers but get wasted going up against a serious shooter or someone 10 or more levels higher then me. I'm still tweaking things and it isn't as bad as when the update first came out, but it isn't anything worth keeping either.

W9, What sort of opponents? Casual dueler? you are joking of course............. Does my sig for W11 make it look like I'm a casual dueler? I think you need to do some research before making noob statements.


Judge R Bean
Level 100
Duelling level 247
Challenger



Sir Nautilus
Level 120
Duelling level 271
Strike: Right arm
- 33 HP

Strike: Right arm
- 39 HP Strike: Right arm
- 40 HP

No hit Strike: Left arm
- 33 HP

Strike: Left arm
- 42 HP Strike: Left arm
- 36 HP

Strike: Left arm
- 34 HP No hit

Strike: Right arm
- 46 HP Strike: Right arm
- 30 HP

Strike: Right arm
- 41 HP Strike: Left arm
- 40 HP

Strike: Left arm
- 36 HP Strike: Left arm
- 38 HP

Strike: Left arm
- 40 HP Total health points
- 250 HP

Total health points
- 278 HP Judge R Bean wins the duel, gains 630 experience points and steals $5 from Sir Nautilus.



___________________________________________________________________________
Judge R Bean
Level 100
Duelling level 247
Challenger



pscspyderr
Level 120
Duelling level 211
No hit

Strike: Right arm
- 231 HP No hit

Strike: Right arm
- 224 HP No hit

No hit No hit

Strike: Left arm
- 208 HP No hit

Strike: Right arm
- 258 HP No hit

Strike: Right arm
- 175 HP No hit

No hit No hit

No hit No hit

Total health points
- 1096 HP Judge R Bean wins the duel, gains 252 experience points and steals $361 from pscspyderr.
_________________________________________________________________________________

Judge R Bean
Level 99
Duelling level 244
Challenger


B.Kharaman
Level 120
Duelling level 230

Strike: Left arm
- 35 HP

No hit No hit

Strike: Right shoulder
- 246 HP Strike: Left arm
- 36 HP

Strike: Left shoulder
- 219 HP No hit

Strike: Left shoulder
- 291 HP Strike: Left arm
- 26 HP

No hit No hit

Strike: Right shoulder
- 245 HP No hit

Strike: Left shoulder
- 133 HP Total health points
- 97 HP

Total health points
- 1134 HP B.Kharaman passes out. Judge R Bean wins the duel and gains 362 experience points. B.Kharaman did not carry any cash and Judge R Bean walks away without taking any money.

All soldiers BTW, Sir N is #1 ranked dueler.

You are looking at Colorado, very early days on there, it's not a sprint. I'll be walking my way to the top 10 dueling rank very shortly. All those top duelers will have a much higher dueling level than me and I'll pick them off when I get to level 70, taking anywhere between 400-700 duel XP every time.

 

[DeletedUser]

So far my tests have shown very little difference.

 

[DeletedUser16008]

JR you wont see a change in resist being nerfed if its a resist vs only one style ... in your case melee... the only time youll notice is when its a case of dueling say gun and your reflex is minimal and now your toughness is reduced effect from before..

In theory Elmyr is correct one style resist should be fine ... also the added change to aim will add to your amount of hits from previous.

 

[DeletedUser30834]

W9, What sort of opponents? Casual dueler? you are joking of course............. Does my sig for W11 make it look like I'm a casual dueler? I think you need to do some research before making noob statements.

I do not play 9 or 12 but i do play Colorado where your duel stats i posted are accurate. I also do pay attention to sigs and have them disabled as they are generally meaningless clutter. and most importantly, i said i was trying to get perspective on you claims so please don't act like a boob calling someone else a noob for noobiness I think we both enjoy.

Also, dueling level means little means little in this regard. It's the player level that matters because it's the player level that dictates how many skill points you will have available to any given skill. We are after all, discussing issues with the change of impact some skills have in a duel now. All duel level will do is limit the real level of players you can duel to higher level players or other players who duel more. That's why 0 motive has such an advantage, you can have all your skills in dueling skills, then attack players who are at the same level but have skill spread out to do other things or lower level players who can't even match your skill placement if they wanted to. Some people claim that's unfair, but I don't care (and I'm not a purposely 0 motive dueler either)

That being said, Nice duels and I do have a better perspective on your post now. Can I ask without you ranting on my ignorance, what weapons where you using during those duels?

 

[DeletedUser]

I do not play 9 or 12 but i do play Colorado where your duel stats i posted are accurate. I also do pay attention to sigs and have them disabled as they are generally meaningless clutter. and most importantly, i said i was trying to get perspective on you claims so please don't act like a boob calling someone else a noob for noobiness I think we both enjoy.

Also, dueling level means little means little in this regard. It's the player level that matters because it's the player level that dictates how many skill points you will have available to any given skill. We are after all, discussing issues with the change of impact some skills have in a duel now. All duel level will do is limit the real level of players you can duel to higher level players or other players who duel more. That's why 0 motive has such an advantage, you can have all your skills in dueling skills, then attack players who are at the same level but have skill spread out to do other things or lower level players who can't even match your skill placement if they wanted to. Some people claim that's unfair, but I don't care (and I'm not a purposely 0 motive dueler either)

That being said, Nice duels and I do have a better perspective on your post now. Can I ask without you ranting on my ignorance, what weapons where you using during those duels?

Everyone had a golden sabre.
I know what you mean about levels, but just look, they are all level 120, all high in dueling ranks, Sir N is #1.
Motivation duelers don't come into it, they keep themselves so far down the food chain you soon are way above their level if you are going for XP.
In the long run, on worlds that have been around a while you will have to duel the best to get the XP to move up the ranks. I duel only top players, I'm not interested in quantity.
Those at the top don't have their skills placed elsewhere, how do you think in a world like 9 thats been going a long while those at the top got there, they have over 200 duel level, you don't get that when you are above level 90 by dueling non duelers.
And I was discussing the impact of the new duel formula, i.e it seems to have helped dedicated resist duelers, whereby you can hit your opponent more times and the effect of your resist skills is not lessened in any way, not if you are set up to JUST duel ranged OR melee.

Vic : I understand what you are saying and our duels more or less proved it.

 

[DeletedUser30834]

Everyone had a golden sabre.
I know what you mean about levels, but just look, they are all level 120, all high in dueling ranks, Sir N is #1.
Motivation duelers don't come into it, they keep themselves so far down the food chain you soon are way above their level if you are going for XP.
In the long run, on worlds that have been around a while you will have to duel the best to get the XP to move up the ranks. I duel only top players, I'm not interested in quantity.
Those at the top don't have their skills placed elsewhere, how do you think in a world like 9 thats been going a long while those at the top got there, they have over 200 duel level, you don't get that when you are above level 90 by dueling non duelers.
And I was discussing the impact of the new duel formula, i.e it seems to have helped dedicated resist duelers, whereby you can hit your opponent more times and the effect of your resist skills is not lessened in any way, not if you are set up to JUST duel ranged OR melee..

Set up to just duel ranged OR melee. Are you suggesting that I limit myself to one type of player? That would make you the best of half the best and in a world that isn't old and stale with lots of people claiming it's dead or dieing, it means you will get owned by someone's buddy easily after you duel them. IF you are doing something like that, then I suggest that you had more skills allocated to resistance then the amount of reduction the game would allow you to have and are not going to notice any reduction that puts it closer to real world effectiveness.

How about you post the results of something with your colorado player where it's not possible to overload resistance or vigor yet. And go against a shooter as well as a melee. I don't play the dead worlds any more and only play the dieing Arizona and Colorado now.

Oh, and the 0 motive was just an ancillary remark O was making to push the point of the player level. It's not important at all.

 

[DeletedUser20147]

My traditional build is about 60% dexterity dodger / 40% charisma appearance, and the difference between duels doesn't seem to be very big (although I realize my opponents are having different results as well). But my point is, as we don't know how well the combination works together, especially as I am closer to the shooter/dodger already, could there be a change I'd actually do worse if I go for pure shooter/dodger?

 

[DeletedUser]

Set up to just duel ranged OR melee. Are you suggesting that I limit myself to one type of player? That would make you the best of half the best and in a world that isn't old and stale with lots of people claiming it's dead or dieing, it means you will get owned by someone's buddy easily after you duel them. IF you are doing something like that, then I suggest that you had more skills allocated to resistance then the amount of reduction the game would allow you to have and are not going to notice any reduction that puts it closer to real world effectiveness.

How about you post the results of something with your colorado player where it's not possible to overload resistance or vigor yet. And go against a shooter as well as a melee. I don't play the dead worlds any more and only play the dieing Arizona and Colorado now.

Oh, and the 0 motive was just an ancillary remark O was making to push the point of the player level. It's not important at all.

I'm not suggesting you limit yourself.
I have a limited amount of people I can duel on W11 and 80% of those people are melee, those that are ranged I wouldn't get much XP off anyway so I'm not going to waste skills on a duel build for 20% of my opponents. Also most of those ranged seem to be set-up more for fort fighting so I get attacked by them very few times. I used to be setup to duel either but I don't need to now. You adapt your build to YOUR circumstances. BTW I have only been a resist dueler on W11 for a couple of months, I used to be ranged regular. I actually find resist quite boring so now we can re-skill for free I might go regular again.
W11 is certainly not dead, there is plenty of dueling action going on.
On Colorado I will be setup to duel both melee and ranged and I won't be resist, you wouldn't last long at this stage if you didn't BUT if the time comes where I'm limited to how many I can duel I will acess whether I need to be able to duel both and re-skill accordingly.

 

[DeletedUser]

One thing for sure, non dueling player are going to be owned by duelers, what little defense we had seen to have been taken totally away from us now, this update is going to be worker basher's galore.

 

[DeletedUser]

One thing for sure, non dueling player are going to be owned by duelers, what little defense we had seen to have been taken totally away from us now, this update is going to be worker basher's galore.

From the initial reports, I'm not so sure. Sounds like resistance duelers are actually a little better off. I suppose if you were a CHA worker...

In any event, I'm not sure this change will upset the balance of power between workers and duelists. If you were a worker beat up by duelers before, you are still a worker beat up by duelers... This game has always been, "worker basher's galore". That issue hasn't been addressed.

 

[DeletedUser]

Pure strength hit by a shooter, did the double amount of damage as I'm used to, and I was in duel gear.

 

[DeletedUser]

One thing for sure, non dueling player are going to be owned by duelers, what little defense we had seen to have been taken totally away from us now, this update is going to be worker basher's galore.

Meh, as Adelei stated, it's always been a worker basher's galore and I'm confidently calling your statement wrong, as it will be less worker basher's galore now than before because workers historically have more hps and the aim/dodge build historically has less hps. An aim/dodge build, which emphasizes dexterity and mobility, is a high damage, low hp build. The greatest attack/defense against workers is a strength/resistance build, because you can pound on them over and over and over again to squeeze every little coin out of their grimy little fingers (and still have plenty of hps left). The aim/dodge build, not so much.

 

[DeletedUser]

Bleh, still hitting 60s with my gold colt on resitance *****s. While it seems like my aim and dodge are working better, my 200+ shooting is still being ignored and the resistance duelers will still remain dominant.

 

[DeletedUser]

well i did the reskill in every world i duel in. I am still winning. I loose some also. I think a few more tweeks and im done. I am glad they gave me the quest it was costing me 120k to move 40 skill points. within the last year i have spent 500k on reskilling. this one cost me nothing, i almost wish i reskilled to get golden gun in world 1 lol.

 

[DeletedUser18255]

IMO, from what I've seen...resistance seems about the same. I really can't tell much difference at all.

Everyone seems to be getting rid of appearance/tactics.. but they just made it 'weaker', not irrelevant.. or obsolete.

On one of the worlds I play I got rid of all my appearance and put alot more in aiming, and a few others..but that was a BAD move. Aim with App still work together great, IMO.

Dueling stance really does have a BIG factor in dueling now..I guess, as it should. Nothing used to piss me off more, when I had my stance ALL LEFT, yet someone would still hit me every round ALL RIGHT, etc.

 

[DeletedUser30834]

Dueling stance really does have a BIG factor in dueling now..I guess, as it should. Nothing used to piss me off more, when I had my stance ALL LEFT, yet someone would still hit me every round ALL RIGHT, etc.

Aim should be able to defeat stance. if you can aim, you can even hit moving targets. Plus, in game, aim is a dead skill. it counts for nothing else that i know of but dueling and a small portion of fort fighting (1 of 5 skils and only used half the time). There should be a value to aim other then being able to hit someone if they are exposed in the right way.

 

[DeletedUser]

I agree with you Massacre. My experiences so far show the changes were not significant and Tactics/Appearance are still valuable skills. Will continue playing around with it. Oh, and for those of you making all this drama, going against the NPCs lets you know pretty much what, if anything, has changed. So all this drama about the skill quest is just plain ridiculous.


Anyway, will continue to see how I do against the NPCs.

 

[Diggo11]

Hmm, apparently the purpose of this thread was not as simple as I first perceived.

The changes implemented were an adjustment to the baseline, based on ample testing. From this, further tests were made in beta. There is, however, always the possibility something was missed. Innogames is COURTEOUS enough to the community that they actually attempt to illicit CONSTRUCTIVE input (unlike many other game developers).

This particular thread is asking for constructive input, based on both the 1.33 roll-out, and your quest-provided option to "tweak" your character to adjust to the changes.

They have plenty of baselines...they know how the old system worked and how players could game the system to their advantage. What they need to know is not how poorly speced characters react to the new system, but in what ways players can find to unbalance the new system to their advantage.

Of all the interpretations on the purpose of this thread, these would be the closest. To be perfectly frank, I don't give a rodent's posterior for your old builds. These builds have been developed and evolved to be the elite and superior specs under the old system. We obviously don't have the old system anymore, and over time further builds will be refined (particularly when offering a free respec that you can take at anytime up until the end of November).

When people discuss past changes we now perceive as bad, it usually comes down to one core theme - there is an issue with something we did not forsee. Whilst the new system has been thoroughly generated through duel simulations and further tested in the open beta environment, it is simply impossible to simulate years of further refinement. That's why this thread exists, for your new builds. We want to know how the new system runs after players have adapted. Did we miss something? Did we go far enough, or perhaps too far once further adjustment from the players side is made?

This thread will remain open whilst it remains productive in identifying potential issues over time that can only be seen in a "real" productive environment. We ain't perfect, but we're determined to make things right whilst we have constructive feedback from helpful players to aid us. Otherwise we simply will end up with the sorts of issues some of you like to derail other threads with. (One problem at a time eh?)

Feel free to have a discussion about how the system works, it'll benefit all the other readers which is a good thing, but its a side point. InnoGames wrote the system, we're aware of the changes and from our perspective more looking for constructive feedback.