Duelling Changes

[DeletedUser22575]

I know about folk not being able to be dueled once signed up to a battle but it is now possible to duel them if they are at the fort as long as they have dueled you, the duel back system over rides this, I dueled Rockin Racer today after he hit me and run to the fort.

I am wondering though what would happen once the battle begins as that is a potential loophole.

I have not heard of anyone being able to be dueled once they have signed in to a fort battle, other than from the old bug that existed before 1.30. Don't know if that bug has been fixed yet or not.

 

[DeletedUser]

How easy..or hard dueling was before depended on your build. If you were a knuckle dragger yeah it would have been pretty easy.

As far as this rule making an offensive dueler think about what they are going to do...again it depends on their build. Knuckle draggers really don't have it much harder than before the change. With the addition of pants/belts they can have even more HP's, vigor, resistance, etc. So things have stayed pretty much proportional for them.

For example when you have a player who is ranked # 9 in Strength, # 2 in Toughness, # 2 in Reflex and in the top 16-30 in other melee areas this change is not going to effect them much.

Other builds have it harder, but then again they had it harder before the rule change also.

For example xtxtxtxtxtxtx in Arizona who is not a soldier but is a dueling adventurer, and he is an excellent dueler. But he already was at a disadvantage on defense due to no soldiers tactics bonus and on offense had to try and compensate with select high skills to overcome the soldiers tactic bonus when on offense.

This change has hurt skilled dueler builds like his quite a lot.

TJ ... thanks for stated my concerns so well. On Arizona, I've already spent over 100K gold (ALL MY CASH & GEAR) to re-skill to become an adventurer fort fighting stealth tank with 6200 hp. I just hope the rules don't change to take away the 50% chance of avoiding hits.

 

[DeletedUser22575]

TJ ... thanks for stated my concerns so well. On Arizona, I've already spent over 100K gold (ALL MY CASH & GEAR) to re-skill to become an adventurer fort fighting stealth tank with 6200 hp. I just hope the rules don't change to take away the 50% chance of avoiding hits.

Your welcome.

Despite the fact that you are an adventurer and I am a soldier I always considered dueling you a challenge with your build.

And i think it is tremendously unfair to players such as yourself to have to spend the in game money, sell your equipment, etc, to reskill to be competitive in another aspect of the game because of something like the duel back.

If the duel back had been done properly I don't see that as something that would have needed to have been done.

When you initiated a duel you would have accepted the responsibility for the duel back that came with attacking a player or from his town.

It is an entirely different story than doing that and having to become a dueling target for everyone in the game for 45 minutes including players clean on the other side of the map 5 hours away looking for exp.

Good Luck on your new build.

 

[DeletedUser]

45 mins is fine. Really it could be 60 mins or more for all I care. I've been in hundreds of duels and rarely does anyone ever fight back within that period. That player would have to be online, and informing their town mates, who are hopefully in the area, that they need help. Then what about all the players who are attacked who never could fight back successfully, and may not have town members who could either? What if they have been KOed? Leave it open to anyone from anywhere just like standard duels.
I can understand to a certain extent when worker or adventurer classes complain about duels. I've played characters from both those classes and just accepted it as part of the cycle. Duelers/Soldiers having a problem with the same thing though is more than a bit hypocritical. How often does it come back to bite them, while more often then not they have been roaming around collecting wins off of players who are unable to defend themselves?

 

[DeletedUser22685]

Yeah, I'm in the same boat as LL. In all the duels I've initiated since the release of 1.30, I have not been dueled once within that 45 minutes of exposure so it's made no difference to me which means it was unnecessary to bring in duels on the spot in the first place; if the player is not online or has no wish to make a hit back within 45 minutes it doesn't matter if the duel was initiated from his location or from his town.

 

[DeletedUser22575]

Yeah, I'm in the same boat as LL. In all the duels I've initiated since the release of 1.30, I have not been dueled once within that 45 minutes of exposure so it's made no difference to me which means it was unnecessary to bring in duels on the spot in the first place; if the player is not online or has no wish to make a hit back within 45 minutes it doesn't matter if the duel was initiated from his location or from his town.

I guess maybe it comes down to which town/players you are dueling against. Players in my town get hit back from some of the town/players we duel against.

I don't mind that. What I don't like is someone from the other side of the world (not in the dueled players town or alliance) popping in and dueling you in that 45 minute time period.

 

[DeletedUser22685]

Yeah well I guess that's a side effect that we will have to deal with as I have a feeling it would be too small of a flaw for the devs to be bothered with tweaking it.

 

[DeletedUser]

I can understand a player being concerned if he lost a ton of HP and wanted to hide out, though as an attacker we do get to choose our battles so I recommend not stepping in the ring with a someone who is a heavyweight compared to your build/level.
It's nice to push the boundaries and test your build sometimes, but I accept that I will be dueled since I do a lot of it myself. It's something all duelers should really accept. If I don't want to be attacked after hitting up the hotel you may just find me Harvesting Potatoes. Feel free to take a swing

 

[DeletedUser3543]

It's not 45 minutes anyway - as I found out the other day!

It's 34 minutes and 59 seconds of no protection, because unless the return duel is initiated with more than 10 minutes to go, then the player will be sleeping in the hotel, nice and protected.

Personally I think it should be raised to 60 minutes because unless you are online hitting that F5 key every two minutes, you are very unlikely to be able to respond - I've managed it only once since the update.

 

[DeletedUser22685]

Ah, I was wondering whether the protection was 45 minutes until the duel finished (aka. 34 minutes 59 seconds to initiate the duel) or 45 minutes until the duel is initiated. Have you got confirmation of the former or are you just making an assumption?

 

[Diggo11]

Whilst the 45 minute window is irrelevant for the final ten minutes due to the duel time, remember the challenger has probably left the hotel to duel anyway, leaving the attempted camper duellable for a grand total of 45 minutes regardless. Of course, if the camper is not the dueller class, you can add their travel time to that.

Of course, 45 minutes isn't really that much when you consider travel time. Unless you are within a half hour walking range of a camper to begin with, aka the approximate size of a county by quarter horse, you're unlikely to notice the opportunity in time. Only if they're hardcore camping can you prepare for a counter duel, or also more likely if you have the dueller range bonuses. Apart from that, it's unlikely (if not otherwise impossible) to be duelled by someone on the other side of the map or expect that you'll have your entire town get revenge before they get their hotel protection.

 

[DeletedUser3543]

Ah, I was wondering whether the protection was 45 minutes until the duel finished (aka. 34 minutes 59 seconds to initiate the duel) or 45 minutes until the duel is initiated. Have you got confirmation of the former or are you just making an assumption?

It is definitely 34m 59s.

I did it yesterday - got duelled, attacker was in my hotel napping, but he was still unprotected and duellable. I set the duel and got a sleeping in hotel report.

I checked the time that he duelled me, to when my duel finished, and he escaped by one minute - ie my duel ended 46 minutes after his duel ended / sleep started.

 

[DeletedUser22685]

Diggo's post brings up another fault. I only string a few duels together (without the 10 minutes sleep in between that indicates a camper, believe it or not Diggo ) then sleep when I've got too low HP to continue to duel. Now if by chance someone happens to duel me within that 34 mins 59 secs (thanks Mr. G) I will definitely be KOed because of my couple of hundred HP. Why couldn't they make it so the 34:59 minute vulnerability doesn't apply to players with below a certain amount of HP?

They already brought in a new dueling system to stop campers which consequently screwed it up for other duelers too. Then they brought in this rule which again punishes regular duelers. Though it is a very small thorn in our sides, TJ stated that it is possible to be dueled by a random from the other side of the map which is not helpful for anyone.

 

[DeletedUser22575]

Diggo's post brings up another fault. I only string a few duels together (without the 10 minutes sleep in between that indicates a camper, believe it or not Diggo ) then sleep when I've got too low HP to continue to duel. Now if by chance someone happens to duel me within that 34 mins 59 secs (thanks Mr. G) I will definitely be KOed because of my couple of hundred HP. Why couldn't they make it so the 34:59 minute vulnerability doesn't apply to players with below a certain amount of HP?

They already brought in a new dueling system to stop campers which consequently screwed it up for other duelers too. Then they brought in this rule which again punishes regular duelers. Though it is a very small thorn in our sides, TJ stated that it is possible to be dueled by a random from the other side of the map which is not helpful for anyone.

Actually I think how small a thorn it is in your side depends on what type of dueler you are.

The number of players dueling has decreased for several reasons IMO. The spot dueling has contributed to it, having to chase players has contributed to it. And pants/belts has decreased it to a degree believe it or not.

Before irregardless of the type if build you had you could consistently hit upwards against a lot of players and win. But dueling is like anything else and there is a break even point with it.

With pants/belts and the benefits that the 95+ level requirements give it is enough of an advantage that the break even point has been changed to where those upper level players now have the advantage over the lower level player hitting up and it is now much harder to beat them.

Additionally more and more of the duelers are going heavy resist duelers making it even harder for those who are not resist to beat them.

For example I consistently loose duels now hitting players 5-7 times per duel and only getting hit once or twice who i consistently won against previously.

If you are a 0 mot dueler you can really work a much smaller area of the map for targets and these changes have the least impact on them.

But if you are a experience dueler you work a much larger area of the map hitting players. For example I want to hit players who with give me at least 10 exp per ep or 120 exp per due minimum if at all possible. And combine this with the fact that not only myself but most of my town members do not hit workers this narrows the target range down for us exp duelers to other top duelers who are exp hunters themselves.

And these players watch other players. They look to see who is where and who is dueling what, waiting for the opportunity to hit back to get revenge. :laugh:

And should you be in the middle of a town war somewhere they are not adverse at all to popping in from the other side of the world and hitting you when they think you are low on HP's.

This 45 minute duel back is not a duel back at all when you look at it as the proposed "fire back" option that was on the road map at one time. This is not the player you dueled or his town dueling you back but what it is in fact is an extended period where everyone in th game can take a shot at ko'ing anyone who has the audacity to duel in the game.

And this in actuality has further discouraged dueling. Players like xtxtxtxtxt who was a very good dueling adventurer have reskilled, this type of dueler just can't compete anymore. It was extremely difficult for them before, the present duel back system has chased them out of the competition imo.

Again, imo the dueling build responsible for the "camping" to the largest degree was the 0 mot dueler and the changes to the dueling system, ie spot dueling, the 45 minute duel back were designed to even the playing field against that build for other players.

I find it ironic with the addition of bought points and aps, and the health and vigor advantages available with pants and belts that in the future the dueling build of choice is going to be the heavy resist "knuckle dragging 0 mot dueler" whom the changes to dueling as implemented (to include the 45 minute duel back) have minimal effect on.

 

[DeletedUser16008]

Actually I think how small a thorn it is in your side depends on what type of dueler you are.

The number of players dueling has decreased for several reasons IMO. The spot dueling has contributed to it, having to chase players has contributed to it. And pants/belts has decreased it to a degree believe it or not.

Before irregardless of the type if build you had you could consistently hit upwards against a lot of players and win. But dueling is like anything else and there is a break even point with it.

With pants/belts and the benefits that the 95+ level requirements give it is enough of an advantage that the break even point has been changed to where those upper level players now have the advantage over the lower level player hitting up and it is now much harder to beat them.

Additionally more and more of the duelers are going heavy resist duelers making it even harder for those who are not resist to beat them.

For example I consistently loose duels now hitting players 5-7 times per duel and only getting hit once or twice who i consistently won against previously.

If you are a 0 mot dueler you can really work a much smaller area of the map for targets and these changes have the least impact on them.

But if you are a experience dueler you work a much larger area of the map hitting players. For example I want to hit players who with give me at least 10 exp per ep or 120 exp per due minimum if at all possible. And combine this with the fact that not only myself but most of my town members do not hit workers this narrows the target range down for us exp duelers to other top duelers who are exp hunters themselves.

And these players watch other players. They look to see who is where and who is dueling what, waiting for the opportunity to hit back to get revenge. :laugh:

And should you be in the middle of a town war somewhere they are not adverse at all to popping in from the other side of the world and hitting you when they think you are low on HP's.

This 45 minute duel back is not a duel back at all when you look at it as the proposed "fire back" option that was on the road map at one time. This is not the player you dueled or his town dueling you back but what it is in fact is an extended period where everyone in th game can take a shot at ko'ing anyone who has the audacity to duel in the game.

And this in actuality has further discouraged dueling. Players like xtxtxtxtxt who was a very good dueling adventurer have reskilled, this type of dueler just can't compete anymore. It was extremely difficult for them before, the present duel back system has chased them out of the competition imo.

Again, imo the dueling build responsible for the "camping" to the largest degree was the 0 mot dueler and the changes to the dueling system, ie spot dueling, the 45 minute duel back were designed to even the playing field against that build for other players.

I find it ironic with the addition of bought points and aps, and the health and vigor advantages available with pants and belts that in the future the dueling build of choice is going to be the heavy resist "knuckle dragging 0 mot dueler" whom the changes to dueling as implemented (to include the 45 minute duel back) have minimal effect on.

Gonna dissect that in a few places if I may TJ

Lets assume your talking about arizona only here

Yes probably the number of players has decreased but it always does as the world matures, the busiest times are always the first 6 mths...

Your correct in the assumption that the higher lvl players now not only have a lvl advantage as they always did but also access to better stuff makes a difference... well it always did as far as kit was concerned only now it extends all the way to lvl 100+ so theres nothing much new there... of course the added problem for those looking to get a high duel level early on is they will be wide open to those duelers whilst also at a serious disadvantage... the main reason some of us started dueling low motivation.

0 motive dosnt mean working a small corner of the map and Id stronly disagree they are the main campers of the game ... in fact if your 0 motive you keep moving NOT camping thats the best strategy. I am pretty fed up with the constant slating of 0 motive duelers they do what they do get over it if there wasnt such a stupid thing such as a duel level increase the 0 motive dueler would be handing out peoples asses to them far more, especially when at a higher level.

In contrast I fail as an x 0 motive to see the point of gaining xp to the point where you cant even duel more than a handful of players

Resist fighters are easy enough to beat if you choose the correct build however on a world such as Arizona they can also buy points ... there isnt much answer to that as theres no way of telling whos bought what.

The fact the 45 duel back is in fact a 45 open season for ANYONE if you duel before you are safe is and always has been out of order and False in its being sold as a duel back feature for the benefit of the guy you just dueled .. they failed to add the whole world can duel you.

Ill help you out for the resist build killer... go get 350 shooting points with kit and then lvl to 100 .. in the normal game worlds youll destroy any resist player... on Arizona it depends on your wallet as usual so i cant help you there .. :whistle:

There has never been anything fair or even about the newer prem worlds imo. You could always join an older world now they are making them Prem but without the points buying at least youll know the playing field is approximately even.

 

[DeletedUser22575]

Gonna dissect that in a few places if I may TJ

Lets assume your talking about arizona only here

Yes probably the number of players has decreased but it always does as the world matures, the busiest times are always the first 6 mths...

Your correct in the assumption that the higher lvl players now not only have a lvl advantage as they always did but also access to better stuff makes a difference... well it always did as far as kit was concerned only now it extends all the way to lvl 100+ so theres nothing much new there... of course the added problem for those looking to get a high duel level early on is they will be wide open to those duelers whilst also at a serious disadvantage... the main reason some of us started dueling low motivation.

0 motive dosnt mean working a small corner of the map and Id stronly disagree they are the main campers of the game ... in fact if your 0 motive you keep moving NOT camping thats the best strategy. I am pretty fed up with the constant slating of 0 motive duelers they do what they do get over it if there wasnt such a stupid thing such as a duel level increase the 0 motive dueler would be handing out peoples asses to them far more, especially when at a higher level.

In contrast I fail as an x 0 motive to see the point of gaining xp to the point where you cant even duel more than a handful of players

Resist fighters are easy enough to beat if you choose the correct build however on a world such as Arizona they can also buy points ... there isnt much answer to that as theres no way of telling whos bought what.

The fact the 45 duel back is in fact a 45 open season for ANYONE if you duel before you are safe is and always has been out of order and False in its being sold as a duel back feature for the benefit of the guy you just dueled .. they failed to add the whole world can duel you.

Ill help you out for the resist build killer... go get 350 shooting points with kit and then lvl to 100 .. in the normal game worlds youll destroy any resist player... on Arizona it depends on your wallet as usual so i cant help you there .. :whistle:

There has never been anything fair or even about the newer prem worlds imo. You could always join an older world now they are making them Prem but without the points buying at least youll know the playing field is approximately even.

Actually I am an x 0 mot and am not really knocking them. I think a lot of them are actually the best duelers around. I just like a build that is a bit more of a challenge myself for dueling.

Let me clarify a "small corner of the map". That is comparatively speaking to the traveling you need to do to find that "handful of players".

"350 shooting with kit" I don't think I would have any points anywhere else if I did that. :laugh:

 

[DeletedUser]

sure you would. he said get to level 100. i have a dueler with 345 shooting and 125 appearance at level 87, so its definitely doable if you are specifically looking to be a resistance killer

 

[DeletedUser]

dude it must be as it is cause only that way is correct. if you attack back than there is another chance that the dude busts your a*s secondly. You can get revenge other times

 

[DeletedUser]

I just have an issue with the in-game/wiki dueling rules...

The help/wiki reads:

The defending player does not have to be online for you to challenge him. However, you cannot challenge players that are asleep in a hotel or barracks, or at a fort gate waiting for a battle to start.

I have no issue with this at all... However, what were they thinking when they wrote this:?

If you duel a player who was sleeping you will lose 12 energy points.

 

[DeletedUser]

I have no issue with this at all... However, what were they thinking when they wrote this:?

They were thinking correctly, it hasn't been updated since it was changed.

A wiki ( i/ˈwɪki/ wik-ee) is a website whose users can add, modify, or delete its content via a web browser using a simplified markup language or a rich-text editor.[1][2][3] Wikis are typically powered by wiki software and are often created collaboratively by multiple users.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki

Users would be you. Why is every exception someone takes with something in the Wiki posted in forums instead of just being corrected?