Rejected Dueling with reputation

Would you like this proposal implemented?


  • Total voters
    70
  • Poll closed .
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DeletedUser30224

There will be ONE week period available to vote. (May be extended if needed.)

If the idea wins 75% of the vote, it is sent to the developers who will respond with feedback and the idea will be linked in the ideas passed to developers.
If it loses the vote by not attaining more than 74.99%, it will be moved to the archives. The idea will then be placed on the list of items to not post again.

Original thread can be found <HERE>.


Proposal
To get dueling back into The West, dueling that brings some 'law' into play and helps to protect the 'innocent', while giving the dueler something to gain at the same time. I know many may see this as a waste of time and effort, as Inno has their own agenda, but I think maybe if we send some ideas to them, just maybe they may at least look at what we have to say, and may see that some of us still want dueling as a part of The-West.

I propose to rework the current dueling system, to give some protection to those who wish not to duel and to give a more balanced playing field for those that do, while giving some chances to gain bonds from dueling. We know the existing system has created the 0 mot duelers, duelers who don't want to face players many levels above them who have more AP/SP to spend and better level weapons to use, this system will also eliminate the need for 0 mot duelers.

The bases for my proposal is to eliminate the existing dueling level and to replace it with a dueling Reputation. In the old west, a gunslinger was known by his Reputation, how well he used his gun and by who he used it on. What I propose is a system that will have a players Reputation either rise or fall based on who they choose to duel. If you duel someone with more wins then loses your Reputation will rise, if you duel someone with more loses then wins your Reputation will fall.

Details
  • 'Dueling Level' would be eliminated and replaced with 'Dueling Reputation'
  • Range of people you can duel would be 1/10th your current level down, with no cap on the top side. (ex. lvl 20 player could duel player lvl 18 - 150, lvl 100 player could duel lvl 90 - 150)
  • Each character overview will show the Win/Loss record of that player ex: +2000, -500
  • When attacking, beating a positive win/lose record player - increases attacker's 'Dueling Reputation'
  • When attacking, beating a negative win/lose record player - decreases attacker's 'Dueling Reputation'
  • When defending, defender's Reputation does not change no matter of the result.
  • Duel Reputation is increased or decreased by the win/loss difference of the target. Ex: if target has +600 win/loss then your rep increases by 600.
  • Duel motivation would be used as a multiplier on final cash and experience received. 70% motivation will give you only 70% of the original exp and cash.
  • Beating a player with a positive 'Dueling Reputation' would gain you 1 bond for every 100 Reputation points (ex. 110 = 1 bond, 250 = 2 bonds, 540 = 5 bonds)
  • Beating a player with a negative 'Dueling Reputation' would gain you 1 bond for every -100 Reputation points plus percent increase in cash (ex. 110 = 1 bond, 250 = 2 bonds, 540 = 5 bonds)
  • Also a weekly bond bonus given, based off of either or both, increase in 'Dueling Reputation' for the week, or overall standing in 'Dueling Reputation' at the end of the week (nothing given for a negative dueling reputation)
  • NPC duels do not affect this

The negative to having a bad reputation, or what I call the 'outlaw', someone who preys on the 'innocent' those not equipped or designed as duelers.
- if you are an 'outlaw' and venture into a foreign town (not your home town), you have a random chance of having a run-in with the local law. This chance is a percentage based on 1/10th of your reputation. (ex -120 rep = 12% chance of an encounter)
- an encounter consists of a duel with a NPC player (this could be randomly generated, a mirror image, or maybe a mirror of one of the town members that was given the job of sheriff. this is still open for debate)
- the outcome of the duel; a win, nothing happens and the player continues on, a lose and the player is thrown in jail.
- if thrown in jail, the player has 2 options; pay fine or serve time, both based on how 'bad' of an outlaw you are. Example, if you have a -200 REP, you could either pay a $2000 fine or spend 2 hours in jail. -450 Rep, $4500 fine or 4.5 hours in jail. the negative to staying in jail, is your HP and EP are both frozen so there is no benifit to being caught and staying in jail.
- if an 'outlaw' enters into an alliance town, the random chance of a run-in with the law is cut in half. (ex -120 rep = only a 6% chance of an encounter)

Abuse Prevention
only abuse I can see is if a high or low Reputation player as a defender, loses on purpose...

Visual Aids


Summary
What does this gain us??

it gains for every type of player, (except those who pray on the innocent, the outlaws, lol)

1st - the worker, soldier, adventurer, those not focused on dueling and would rather go about their every day lives without crossing paths with those out for quick cash...
2nd - those who want to be known as the law or a seeking the reputation as the best Gun of the West
3rd - well, I guess even the outlaw can seek a status of 'the worst of the worst'

How does it all come together?

1st - if your not wanting to duel, and you lose when dueled, your dueling record will be negative. Dueling you will lower ones Dueling Reputation, increasing the odds that person may be targeted as an outlaw (beating an outlaw gains an increase in cash gained).
2nd - if you are the 'law" with a great rep, you have something to brag about and more bonds in your pockets
3rd - Outlaws (those with a negative Dueling Reputation) could become targets as they could be an easy win since they focus on the innocent and will have harder times as they travel from town to town.

This proposal does not effect the defenders 'Dueling Reputation' as they are not the instigator of the fight, your Reputation is only effected on fights you start.

Also if you lose, your Reputation is not effected, this is to encourage duelers to try and beat those with a better Reputation and record then them.

I am not sure how this is complex...
if you want a good Duel Reputation, you look for people with a positive win/lose ratio... this could be players with a good or a bad Reputation.... you attack and if you win, you gain bonds based on the defenders Reputation.... then end of week, with an increase in Reputation, or your rank in world Duel Reputation, gain more bonds.
if you don't care about your Duel Reputation, duel as you are now, who ever you want, just know, your Reputation may begin to fall and the more it falls, the more of a target you could become... and the harder it will be for you to travel to other towns without an encounter.
 

Zemelci

Well-Known Member
Having read through this system I think that it is a very good system and serves to benefit everyone. The only thing I think which could be implemented to make outlaws more of a target would be a higher reward rate for beating negative rep duellers over positive rep duellers, then people would target them more for easier money thus making it harder to be an outlaw, almost like a bounty.
 

yellowtoad24

I believe that this would help people out in realizing that dueling is a fun part of the west. ;)
 

Thomas Ryker

Well-Known Member
I would really like to hear a 'rational' reason why people voted no.. if we gain reason why people don't like it, we can find ways to improve upon an idea. where if they have no reason, then why vote except out of spite or they really didn't understand the proposal....

in other words, if you vote no, please post an intelligent reason
 
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Seedra

Good Idea

@Thomas Ryker
My guess for some time now that there are some people trolling these forums just voting no on every new idea just for trolling reasons...
 

DeletedUser30224

Thanks

and I wonder if they know we can see who they are now ;)
Every player has the right to vote whichever way and doesn't need to give a reason why he/she voted that way. Everyone is voting according to one's circumstance.
 

Thomas Ryker

Well-Known Member
Every player has the right to vote whichever way and doesn't need to give a reason why he/she voted that way. Everyone is voting according to one's circumstance.
lol, I know they don't 'have' to give a reason, but would still love to hear a reason, so if this fails or passes we know the issues that people had with it and what needs to be addressed to make the proposal better for everyone
 

Mythodeia

Member
I won`t vote for yes or no,because the idea may be good but some parts of that is a no go.

1* Range of people you can duel would be 1/10th your current level down, with no cap on the top side. (ex. lvl 20 player could duel player lvl 18 - 150, lvl 100 player could duel lvl 90 - 150)

So someone can hit a higher lvl player,no matter if he/she cares for pos/neg reputation and the other one can`t hit back.
So someone who doesn`t really care for the rules can create a low lvl player to keep his win/lose ratio stable or inflated.....and try to take chances losing against the big guns that give mass amounts of positive reputation.

2*

  • Duel Reputation is increased or decreased by the win/loss difference of the target. Ex: if target has +600 win/loss then your rep increases by 600.
  • Beating a player with a positive 'Dueling Reputation' would gain you 1 bond for every 100 Reputation points (ex. 110 = 1 bond, 250 = 2 bonds, 540 = 5 bonds)
  • Beating a player with a negative 'Dueling Reputation' would gain you 1 bond for every -100 Reputation points plus percent increase in cash (ex. 110 = 1 bond, 250 = 2 bonds, 540 = 5 bonds)


So in this case how many bonds you can make out of this victory? 153 !!!!
Does this have a cap or will we be able to cook duels to earn up to 2000 bonds a pop ???

3* - if you are an 'outlaw' and venture into a foreign town (not your home town), you have a random chance of having a run-in with the local law. This chance is a percentage based on 1/10th of your reputation. (ex -120 rep = 12% chance of an encounter)
Example, if you have a -200 REP, you could either pay a $2000 fine or spend 2 hours in jail. -450 Rep, $4500 fine or 4.5 hours in jail. the negative to staying in jail, is your HP and EP are both frozen so there is no benifit to being caught and staying in jail.


So if someone really wants to try and be the bad bad cowboy...he can`t play the game:laugh:
Except if the good/bad reputation resets to zero every day, he won`t be able to go anywhere!!!(ex -120 rep = 12% chance of an encounter)(ex -12000rep=1200% chance of an encounter=120.000$ fine=120 hrs in jail :blink:



My summary:
I`m not into duelling anyway...but if your goal is destroying duels vote yes!!!
If your goal is to have nice/kind duellers with more that great dueling stats(no matter the how) and lots lots lots of bonds(no matter the how again) vote yes!!!

I wish there was a go away dueller` button for some of you to push 100 times a day...but there is not.

I`m still not going to vote because this idea is too good to be true for some people :cool:
 
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Cameahwait

I duel a lot and think that duelling needs a serious revamp, but I voted no to this.

As I mentioned in the previous thread, I do not like how abusable it can be for a player who is more 10% lower level to hit a higher level player, without it being possible to duel them back. I really think that duelling has to be a mutual affair and if you can attack, it should also be possible for you to be attacked back and think that this restriction you propose can lead to a lot of frustration for current high level players.
 
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Thomas Ryker

Well-Known Member
1 - yes, I do see some of this issue, and think it needs more ironing out. One thing to remember is no Duel level and no 0 mot duelers, so things will play different then now. plus I really don't see players at lvl 30 really attacking a lvl 100 with a good Rep and winning.

2 - I didn't make the graphic, and really don't see a players Rep getting that high...

3 - if you want to be a real bad guy (which I think could be fun and a challenge), you can still go to your home town safely, forts and other points safely. and going to a foreign town, that is just the chance of having an encounter, not the outcome of an encounter with the sheriff ;)
 

Thomas Ryker

Well-Known Member
I duel a lot and think that duelling needs a serious revamp, but I voted no to this.

As I mentioned in the previous thread, I do not like how abusable it can be for a player who is more 10% lower level to hit a higher level player, without it being possible to duel them back. I really think that duelling has to be a mutual affair and if you can attack, it should also be possible for you to be attacked back and think that this restriction you propose can lead to a lot of frustration for current high level players.
as I said before, I do see the issue, but some limits need to be made somehow... or little players will get no chance... do you really think a player at lvl 120 needs to worry about a player say 30-40 lvls below them?? 1st if the lvl 120 player is a dueler, he will have no issue defeating the upstart... now if the upstart targets a non-dueler, there is a good chance if he wins, he will take a major hit to his reputation and he will have all the other issues associated with that to deal with at a low level.
 

Mythodeia

Member
1 - yes, I do see some of this issue, and think it needs more ironing out. One thing to remember is no Duel level and no 0 mot duelers, so things will play different then now. plus I really don't see players at lvl 30 really attacking a lvl 100 with a good Rep and winning.

2 - I didn't make the graphic, and really don't see a players Rep getting that high...

3 - if you want to be a real bad guy (which I think could be fun and a challenge), you can still go to your home town safely, forts and other points safely. and going to a foreign town, that is just the chance of having an encounter, not the outcome of an encounter with the sheriff ;)

1- Zero mot Duellers will still make duels.......plus they`ll finally be able to earn some good exp out of it,and if they choose their targets wisely they`ll have +rep.
The only problem for them will be that they`ll swim in a larger pool of predators,and will get some of the love they spread until now!!!

As for the other tricky part...the 30 lvl player and the 100 lvl player example doesn`t need to be just from cheating(double account)...just as someone can pay a lower lvl to gather products,he can pay the lower lvl for losing duels against him...so he can maintain his win/loss ratio.Who would say no to 1000$-5000$ or more for 10 minutes and 12 energy;)

2- I don`t know how fast the rep will be going up,but surely if there is no cap or weekly/monthly reset...we`ll see that kind of numbers, sooner than expected.

3- I really don`t think anyone would take that option even if they wanted a challenge,and those who do will eventually regret it ....this kind of change in the dueling system already specifies that there is no incentive in being the bad guy.
It clearly states that at some point you won`t be able to buy /sleep /attack people at towns,because if you don`t win the npc/sheriff duel you`ll be drawn in poverty and if there is prison time in the equation you`ll probably start another game instead and let your character rot there:laugh:

Funny to say, but as long i keep thinking about it, i`m more inclined to vote no to this proposal.
But i`d like the dueling lvl to be used only for ranking and not as a factor of determining your duel range.
 
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Ripwise

Well-Known Member
I guess those who voted no are the 0 mot worker bashers, they just cant stand losing thus the 0 mot way they use.

Btw, i havent voted yet, still thinking.
 

tennismaster07

I like the basic idea, but I think the mechanics need a bit of work. I quit dueling a while ago because it became fairly cookie-cutter. I'd like to see secondary skills play a more diverse part in dueling, but that is a different topic. I would LOVE to see some sort of "law" punishment for bullies. I've been advocating something like this for months. It's a shame that people go after soft targets to the point of making them leave the game. That's why it's more difficult to find good targets. People like that SHOULD be punished somehow. Still let them play the game how they want to play it, but if they want to act like an outlaw, they need to understand that there are consequences to being an outlaw.

I'd also like to see inactivity reduce the dueling levels back towards zero. I don't think I've done much more than defensive duels in the last year, but my duel level is still high because I was an active dueler for a long time. It won't go down. So even though I've spec'd away from dueling and I'm not really a dueler any more, I would still be classified as a higher-level dueler. I think that would also encourage people to be more active. The only way you shouldn't lose dueling level is if you actually put your toon on Vacation Mode, which you SHOULD do anyway if you plan to be away for an extended period.

Anyway, I think it's a good idea, but it does need some work in the mechanics department. Uncapped duels are a no-go. And there would have to be a way to keep abuse down to a minimum. Bonds and XP/Rep would have to be adjusted to give Duelers an incentive to play and compete with everyone else's bond acquisition, but not so high that it imbalances the other activities in this game.

Good suggestion.
 

anarchy111

I guess those who voted no are the 0 mot worker bashers, they just cant stand losing thus the 0 mot way they use.

Btw, i havent voted yet, still thinking.

Iam zeromot worker basher, and i voted yes :p
 

PtyLtd

Well-Known Member
Whilst in theory most things I like. I voted no for two reasons.

There is the whole ability to hit back the person dueling you. Yes, a person can lower their reputation to duel more targets by bashing someone with a negative win loss ratio, but if someone can hit you, you should have the ability to hit them back.

Bonds, they will be way too easy to earn...... waaaaaay too easy. A person could easily earn 200-300 bonds a day with a system like this just by being active.
 

DeletedUser30224

I guess there can be an exception to who you can duel back in certain time period. If a low lvl duels you, you should have 24h to duel back maybe.
 
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