Dueling Skills..

Romelis

i say, if you a melee all your attributes should go t ored. if you are a shooter, all attributes to blue (thats why you have to put less in aim and shooting)
 

DeHammer

You can still get hit with 1000 dodge to my 1 aim if you dodge the wrong way can't you?
No. Dodge skill is always in effect, regardless of where you aim and he dodges. But if the attacker shoots exactly where defender dodges, then the dodge skill is doubled. If I dodge my head, then I get double my dodge skill if you aim for my head. If the attacker shoots where he is not dodging, then 'dodge' skill is still used, its just not doubled.

Example: Say you had 40 aim and shot at my left hand. I have 30 dodge. Pretend your 'appearance' equals my 'tactics', so no negative modifier to either of our 'aim' skills.

Your attack value = 45
If I don't dodge my left hand, my defense value = 35
If I do dodge my left hand, my defense value = 65
 
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Romelis

No. Dodge skill is always in effect, regardless of where you aim and he dodges. But if the attacker shoots exactly where defender dodges, then the dodge skill is doubled. If I dodge my head, then I get double my dodge skill if you aim for my head. If the attacker shoots where he is not dodging, then 'dodge' skill is still used, its just not doubled.

Example: Say you had 40 aim and shot at my left hand. I have 30 dodge. Pretend your 'appearance' equals my 'tactics', so no negative modifier to either of our 'aim' skills.

Your attack value = 45
If I don't dodge my left hand, my defense value = 35
If I do dodge my left hand, my defense value = 65

firstly ratio is not 1 to 1 so your calculations are useless. and other general info can be easily gained from help.
 

Filipinoy78

Okay, keep my attributes to Dexterity..
Shoot ahead by 10 to Aim..
Upgrade 2 skills every 10 lvl..
Every dueling skills is balance(less than/equal 10 to aim).
Is this good enough??
 
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DeHammer

firstly ratio is not 1 to 1 so your calculations are useless. and other general info can be easily gained from help.
Firstly, although info can indeed be gained from the 'help' section, he had it wrong, and you didn't correct him or point him to the correct info in the 'help' section. So I did.

Secondly, the help section says exactly this:

The defense skill is decided by your dodging skill
Additionally each player receives a bonus of 5 to it's defense value.
The attack value is decided by your aiming skill... Each player received a bonus of five to it's attack value.
No mention of ratios at all in determining attack/defense values! So unless you have some official reason for suggesting ratios are involved in converting skill points to attack/defense values, I suggest you stick to what is written.

Where the effects of dodging is an issue, the ratio is given! DOUBLE!

If you dodge with the body part that the attacker was aiming at, your dodging skill gets doubled.

Maybe, the next time someone has an incorrect idea, you should point them to the correct info in the help section, instead of waiting for someone else to do it, then getting your panties in a knot and telling them they're only repeating the help info.

You've done this a number of times now. You A) suggest ratios are involved when there's absolutely nothing official that suggests such is the case, making your input completely self manufactured, then B) put down a post because it's based on what the help section actually does say.

In what realm of logic is your 'made up' information somehow more relevant and deserving of mention in the forums, than facts gleaned from the help section?

Unbelievable.
 
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Filipinoy78

Dang your smart...
What do you think is stronger close or range dueler??
 
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DeHammer

What do you think is stronger close or range dueler??
That's a loaded question since 'strength' is an attribute in the game, and naturally, melee fighters are going to probably invest more attribute points in the 'strength' attribute.

But... I think what you are really asking is which is better.

Dueling is handled in a way that is a bit like the game 'Rock, Paper, Scissors'. Regardless of how you distribute your skill points, you will have vulnerabilites to someone else's skills distribution, and vice versa.

So the key is... determine which skills distributions are most common, and exploit the weaknesses of that skills distribution, while trying to keep your own vulnerabilities from being exploited too often. One way to do this is to pick your fights wisely. Duel on the terms that best suit your character's skill distribution.

In the early days of the game, I'm betting that most duelers went ranged, with lots of shooting + reflex. Now I'm thinking many more are going melee, with lots of vigor + reflex. Eventually, they will realize that so many of them went melee (vigor + reflex), that they are vulnerable to each other more than they are vulnerable to the shrinking number of ranged fighters. Which means I think some are going to start going more (vigor + toughness).

To use an analogy.... If there are tonnes of 'rocks' around, fewer people will go 'scissors', and more will begin to go 'paper'. Eventually, so many will go 'paper' that advantage will shift to going 'scissors'. And around, and around we go. Except of course, dueling in 'The West' is much more complex than 'rock, paper, scissors'.
 
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Bill

Okay, keep my attributes to Dexterity..
Shoot ahead by 10 to Aim..
Upgrade 2 skills every 10 lvl..
Every dueling skills is balance(less than/equal 10 to aim).
Is this good enough??
You don't have to have very high aim. You'll still do fine even if your shooting is 20-30 points ahead of aim. Just invest the rest of the points more to appearance and other skills like dodge a bit of reflex and toughness, its not good that you have equal points on each of these.
 

Filipinoy78

I will only focus on 1 attribute..
And i will distribute my points on my skills..
Can you answer my question on post #45...
 
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Bill

I will only focus on 1 attribute..
And i will distribute my points on my skills..
Can you answer my question on post #45...
Having lots of shooting and aim is useless when you don't have any appearance so add few points to appearance every few levels. You'll need a lot of appearance especially when you are dueling soldiers because of their tactics. Tactics is like a secondary dodge mechanism that comes into play when you are the defender. Its the challenger's appearance versus the defender's tactics. Don't forget to put points to dodge, reflex and toughness as well.
 

Filipinoy78

you said Having lots of shooting and aim is useless..
Is that mean i should distribute my attribute..??
How bout...
First 10 lvl, upgrade shoot/aim(20-10)
Next 10 lvl, upgrade dodge,appearance,reflex,toughness(10-10-5-5)

Or i could just focused on my offence skills(aim,shoot,appearance)???
I will just sleep in a hotel to protect myself...

And are you filipino?
 
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Filipinoy78

Having lots of shooting and aim is useless when you don't have any appearance so add few points to appearance every few levels. You'll need a lot of appearance especially when you are dueling soldiers because of their tactics. Tactics is like a secondary dodge mechanism that comes into play when you are the defender. Its the challenger's appearance versus the defender's tactics. Don't forget to put points to dodge, reflex and toughness as well.
Its alright ima go for soldier... not dueler..
 

DeHammer

Having lots of shooting and aim is useless when you don't have any appearance so add few points to appearance every few levels. You'll need a lot of appearance especially when you are dueling soldiers because of their tactics. Tactics is like a secondary dodge mechanism that comes into play when you are the defender.
Not necessarily. There are some other factors involved.

First off, 'aim' and 'shooting' are used in every duel, while 'appearance' isn't. So if a person is defensive, rarely if ever challenging, then spending points on 'appearance' is a waste.

Appearance is only effective to whatever level of tactics you are facing. Appearance never increases your attack value. It only prevents it from being lowered by your opponents tactics. So excessive appearance is a waste of skill points.

Also, all an opponent's tactics can do is lower your attack value. If you have a high aim, you will start off with a higher attack value to begin with. There is also a mechanism built into the game that allows you to double your attack value. You can opt not to dodge, which means you just get your regular defense value instead of an opporunity to double it. If you have higher dodge, that becomes a more viable option.

Also, it shouldn't be assumed that all soldiers have high tactics points. Some soldiers do not opt to use their bonus to have extraordinary tactics values, but rather they use the bonus so they can spend less points on tactics and focus more skill points on other dueling skills.
 
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Filipinoy78

I'm gonna be a soldier so should i upgrade my appearance or tactics..??
I am active a lot and new to the world..
Is it okay to just focused on my offense skills??
 
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DeHammer

I'm gonna be a soldier so should i upgrade my appearance or tactics..??
I am active a lot and new to the world..
Is it okay to just focused on my offense skills??
It's perfectly fine to focus on offensive skills if that's what you want. A small amount of dodge can go a long way, and is a worthy investment even for an offensive fighter.

If you want to be an aggressive soldier who does lots of attacking, then I would suggest you spend less points on tactics, letting the soldier bonus help you keep reasonable tactics levels, while you take those extra skill points and put them into appearance, aim, vigor/shooting, and some dodge.

If you want to be a more defensive soldier then spend more points on defensive skills such as tactics, dodge, aim, toughness/reflex, and some vigor/shooting.

(The '/' meaning 'or'. Not both. Whichever suits your weapon choice.)
 
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DeHammer

As far as choosing between melee or ranged, there is something else to consider. Early in the game to about mid-way through, there are many great jobs that require strength (red) related skills. 'Silver mining' for instance, is an outstanding way to make money. Just today I made almost $800 in one 2hr work period silver mining.

But later in the game, there are fewer high end jobs that use those same strength skills. Later on it seems that the dexterity and charisma based skills are more required for the great jobs.

So, if you plan to do jobs, as well as duel... you might want to consider how your dueling skill choices can affect the jobs you'll be able to do.
 
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DeHammer

Should i still upgrade tactics though??
If I were going very offensive, I'd put points into dodge before I upgraded tactics. Especially if you plan to protect yourself a lot by sleeping in hotels. I'd be more inclined to get my tactics points from items that gave me some tactics as a bonus. Example: brown boots are great for duelers.

That's not to say I would advise putting nothing into tactics at all... I would just make it a low priority.
 
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