Dueling Skills..

Danzeman

Romelis so you put all your skill points to dodge rather than reflex and toughness?
You can still get hit with 1000 dodge to my 1 aim if you dodge the wrong way can't you?
Also doesn't it hurt big time when you are hit?

I get hit often but the damage is like -13 from gunslingers and -43 ish from melee, not all duels are like this, sometimes I will get hit for more, this is just on average. I'm level 49.
 

Romelis

no at some point you misread me. the question where i defended wdodge was dodge being better than appearance/tactics.

other thing whis is not wise is spreading your skills. i didnt sugest putting all in dodge instead.

if my dodge is significantly higher than you aim, you wount hit me even yif you aim correctly
 

Danzeman

Ok in that case I would agree with you, later in the game for sure dodge is more important than Appearance/tactics.

Ok I use reflex toughness over dodge anyway, it helps on jobs too.

What! I never knew that?, but there must be a random in the duel engine, I mean we have all been hit by a pure builder before.... err not me though I never attack builders :D *shuuuush*....... I know what your saying though fella, the chances are reduced.
Ta for sharing.
 

Filipinoy78

yea i agreed w/ romelis.. cause aim vs dodge...
But he will still have a chance of hitting you
Even if your aim is higher than his dodge.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

pi-man

to much spreading out.
noone knows how precisely works appearance and tactics and if they are very usefull (think , soldier gets a 50% bonus just for being soldier, it wouldnt increse that much if it was dramatically important, now would it ?)
I'm saying if I was a dueler. I'm not a dueler and don't plan on being a dueler, for this very reason--too complicated.
 

Bill

I prefer dodge than reflex... it only lowers the damage, but dodge avoid the damage.
And i am a range dueler so i think i will not upgrade vigor.
How bout i uprage aim, shoot, and dodge.. all even every lvl.. ?
Yes. Focusing your attributes towards dexterity increases both your shooting and aim at the same time. DO NOT UPGRADE vigor if you are a pure firearm dueler. You should have a lot of points on shooting than aim or dodge. Aim will not be useful in jobs and so does dodge, so don't put too much on these when your clothes can provide enough for you. Shooting on the other hand is very useful in super good jobs and makes you hit hard with a firearm weapon as well.
 

Filipinoy78

Ey Romelis.. what skills did you focused on?

Nah ima keep my aim ahead by 10 to my shootin and everythin
else goes to dodge..cause if i have a high damage and i can't
hit the often it will be a waste..
 

Bill

Ey Romelis.. what skills did you focused on?

Nah ima keep my aim ahead by 10 to my shootin and everythin
else goes to dodge..cause if i have a high damage and i can't
hit the often it will be a waste..
In my opinion, shooting should be well ahead of aim and dodge. Aim and dodge are only useful for duels but not on jobs like shooting does. However putting too many points on shooting is pointless when you are lacking on certain skills like appearance. Its also wise to upgrade toughness and reflex some time. Toughness protects you from melee weapons and reflex protects you from firearms. They lower the damage. Reflex and toughness are also useful on jobs not just duels.
 

Filipinoy78

what world are you in?
I really agreed w/ Romelis.. he is an experience dueler..
 

Bill

what world are you in?
I really agreed w/ Romelis.. he is an experience dueler..
I am in World 1 and I'm an experienced dueler too. Putting too much aim when your enemy doesn't have good dodge is useless. Remember, aim and dodge CANNOT be used in jobs so they will ONLY benefit you in dueling but NOT on jobs. Shooting can benefit you both in dueling and in jobs. Perhaps, I believe Romelis is a VIGOR dueler so you don't share the same set of everything. I did not even see that he said you should have higher aim and dodge than everything. Cause putting everything on those 2 skills is a wasting skills and will still not make you a good dueler. Appearance can still be useful in duels and on jobs. Trust me.
 

Ankush Jangid

I think appearance coz it does damage while dueling to other players
 

Filipinoy78

He said balance is the power.. spreading your skills will mess it up.
I don't care about jobs for a moment for now.
Puttin my aim too much helps me win the duel..
It will not be useless, I will be hittin my opponent every hit..
And theres there are many outcomes if my opponent has...
A good dodge or not.
Appearance is like dodge, when you challenge some1...
It will helps you intimidate your opponent n' less likely to land a hit.
 

Bill

He said balance is the power.. spreading your skills will mess it up.
I don't care about jobs for a moment for now.
Puttin my aim too much helps me win the duel..
It will not be useless, I will be hittin my opponent every hit..
And theres there are many outcomes if my opponent has...
A good dodge or not.
Appearance is like dodge, when you challenge some1...
It will helps you intimidate your opponent n' less likely to land a hit.
Spreading your skills TOO much is bad. If you want to be a good dueler, you must BALANCE the proportion of the skills related to dueling. I don't mean you should have equal points on all of them. There is no point of hitting the enemy everytime when you can't hit them HARD at all. There will also be times that you'll get bored of dueling that you will need to do some jobs to get money and xp at the same time. And for that shooting is my choice over aim. Aim is never used in any jobs. Its sole purpose is dueling. Ask every experienced FIREARM duelers here, which is better, higher aim or higher shooting? Most of them will agree with higher shooting.

Aim isnt the only factor to consider on dueling. I once fought a soldier in a duel. He has lots of tactics in his clothes plus his 50% soldier tactics. I have the best combination of items that support my aim for a good duel but I wasnt able to hit him once at all. I should have more APPEARANCE to challenge him. Even with great aim, I ofetn miss the enemy using a number of items that support tactics.
 

Bill

One more thing, shooting can be used on jobs like mercenary work that can give you $500 in 2 hours without premium if you had enough labor points. How cool is that? At least by doing jobs like that, you are sure to gain something, unlike in a duel that there is always a chance you'll lose and get nothing.
 

Filipinoy78

Whats mercenary work??
Aight then ima put my shooting ahead to aim by 10..
And you should have focused on your offence skills..
when you fought that tactics guy.
 

Bill

I was on the best gear to counter his tactics gear. I have 71 points on appearance to throw at him. Now tell me that isn't enough. You should look at this link and see how good shooting related jobs including mercenary work are. Look at the wages, luck and experience percentages.


http://www.weststats.com/Jobs/
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Romelis

i had a discussion with my friend in game about dueling builds in general.

"all those comparisons aim vs dodge deciding who hits, shooting vs reflex deciding the damage and others are still not known how they go. its obvious its not 1 on 1 ratio. it should be something like percent value.

example to this would be:

you go cycling with your bike. the more efforts you put, the more faster you go, but at some point this line gets tricky, despite the same efforts or even bigger are put, the result (speed) increases slower, and by that is not worth that effort. in my guess same is here. you have to increse your stats (thus increasing your dueling performance) to such lvl where it still gives adequate results for your eforts, if the results become too costy, you have to switch.

ex:

in my guess there is something like that. your aim is 30 my dodge is 10. you hit me (hypothetically) 5 times. to hit me 6 times, you need aim at 40. but to hit me 7 times you need aim at 90. so this one more hit is not worth 50SP, so you would have to choose different statistics to level in order to increase your performance.
thats why pure builds at some point looses their power, because they tend to sleep on their prizes and still increase stats which suddenly becomes not worth increasing.

contrary, early spreading of skills will be a suicidal attempt, because you will not have much jobs and still every purer build will beat you, untill you feel the result of balance in mid 70 lvl.

tho balance is very important. after lvl 70 im going to go on appearance or even more dodge and after that appearance in order to become more and more balanced..."

adding to this i can state, that dodge in early stages is death to character since as someone noted it doesnt contribute to jobs. i say lets leave upgrading dodge when you have some acces to high luck/xp/$ jobs. because aim also doesnt contribute, and having boths stats at begining wouldnt make you very balanced now, would it ?

i think bill is wrong stating shooting/vigour should be higher than aim, cus on my observations it happens as i theoreticaly imply
 

Bill

i had a discussion with my friend in game about dueling builds in general.

"all those comparisons aim vs dodge deciding who hits, shooting vs reflex deciding the damage and others are still not known how they go. its obvious its not 1 on 1 ratio. it should be something like percent value.

example to this would be:

you go cycling with your bike. the more efforts you put, the more faster you go, but at some point this line gets tricky, despite the same efforts or even bigger are put, the result (speed) increases slower, and by that is not worth that effort. in my guess same is here. you have to increse your stats (thus increasing your dueling performance) to such lvl where it still gives adequate results for your eforts, if the results become too costy, you have to switch.

ex:

in my guess there is something like that. your aim is 30 my dodge is 10. you hit me (hypothetically) 5 times. to hit me 6 times, you need aim at 40. but to hit me 7 times you need aim at 90. so this one more hit is not worth 50SP, so you would have to choose different statistics to level in order to increase your performance.
thats why pure builds at some point looses their power, because they tend to sleep on their prizes and still increase stats which suddenly becomes not worth increasing.

contrary, early spreading of skills will be a suicidal attempt, because you will not have much jobs and still every purer build will beat you, untill you feel the result of balance in mid 70 lvl.

tho balance is very important. after lvl 70 im going to go on appearance or even more dodge and after that appearance in order to become more and more balanced..."

adding to this i can state, that dodge in early stages is death to character since as someone noted it doesnt contribute to jobs. i say lets leave upgrading dodge when you have some acces to high luck/xp/$ jobs. because aim also doesnt contribute, and having boths stats at begining wouldnt make you very balanced now, would it ?

i think bill is wrong stating shooting/vigour should be higher than aim, cus on my observations it happens as i theoreticaly imply
I do not believe that aim should be higher than vigor or shooting. If you are only starting, its quite bad to put aim ahead of shooting or vigor cause that will not benefit you on jobs. Without shooting and vigor, you won't be able to enjoy doing the jobs that are associated with the skills. And simply because average enemies will not focus more and more points to dodge so you'll hit them many times without very high aim. Aim is not a good skill to start up.

If you want to duel, also invest a number skills to reflex, toughness and appearance cause they influence the outcome of the match. However focusing on a single skill is bad. I have much higher shooting than aim but I was able to win 82% of my duels in world 1 against different enemies. Its not how many times you hit them that matters, its how you manage to do more damage and walk away with the win.
 

Romelis

if you wnat to duel 1 time a day, yes buy more vigour/shooting than anything else. if you want duel efficiently, dont.

tho at one point you are right. aim should not be the first skill to increse.
my suggestion would be (for melee, vus for shooters its slightly different)

lvl vigour untill you can do coal, then switch to aim. from lvl 25-30 go reflex for 10-15 lvls. after that for another 10 lvls choose what you lack. if you hit less then few lvls on aim, if you hit for low dmg, a little vigour, if you suffer more, go for a few lvls on reflex. and after i say lvl 50 go for dodge/appearance for 10-20 lvls (according to who you trust more, or which skill you prefer (dodge aim))
 

Bill

Well its true that its a bit different for firearm users cause while adding points to dexterity, you add points to both aim and shooting at the same time. However aim and dodge will come important to the play when you reach the point of dueling strong enemies with lots of aim and dodge to counter your stats as well. Shooting gives you quest related jobs like hunt turkey or transport ammo whereas vigor gives you cutting trees and coal mining.