Dueling Range Ideas

Meiros

Member
Firstly, lets admit that the Duel levels are not working out. I get the idea behind them, but they are not working - I think the majority will agree.
Secondly, the "use regular lvls instead of duel lvl" will not work. I got massacred by a player 19 lvls below me (60 vs 79). A pure dueler will kick butt of a non dueler 30 lvls or higher.

So I was thinking about the honor duels. They seem to do nothing at all, & many ppl were wondering how to tell if a duel will be honorable. The idea is " If the challenger has significantly stronger skills than the defender, their town loses an honor point, otherwise one is gained."
So they must be calculating the amount of skills a player has in the dueling skills & using that to determine the honor value.
So, why not use the same ranking for the duel rankings?
So rank players based on the amount of skills they have in the dueling skills.

So a lvl 100 player with 100 skills in the dueling skills will be lower ranked than a lvl 50 with 150 skills in the duel skills.
So if 2 near ranked players duel, they will always have similar skills & one will not be overpowered.

Also, if a high lvl player reskills, his rank drops (less skills in dueling) & he can no longer be farmed.
Also, this will place players with nugget bought skills near similarly powerful ppl, higher away from the duelers who whine how they only lose cause of that.

And this will help players like me who like to duel a bit, but would rather skill for something else. As of now, I have to stay in KO & not duel at all, since a pure dueler will beat me & KO me everytime.
But with this skill based ranking, I can duel other players not skilled for duels in a fair match once in a while :)

PS: These are just ideas & by no means perfect, which is why i'm posting them here instead of the Ideas section (Also because the format there makes me confused :p)
So please do not attack this post, but point out any shortcomings & ideas how to overcome them.

Here's an idea I had for tackling 0-mot dueling...
Tie motivation to skill.
Eg: If a player with 200 aim has 100 motivation, he duels with 200 aim.
If he has 90 motivation, he duels with 180 aim(90%)
And so on... making it it that u have 0 skills if u duel at 0% mot.
Do it for all duelling skills, & everyone will duel with 100% motivation :)

PS: These are just ideas & by no means perfect, which is why i'm posting them here instead of the Ideas section (Also because the format there makes me confused :p)
So please do not attack this post, but point out any shortcomings & ideas how to overcome them.
 
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Kidd Kalypso

Well-Known Member
Here's an idea I had for tackling 0-mot dueling...
Tie motivation to skill.
Eg: If a player with 200 aim has 100 motivation, he duels with 200 aim.
If he has 90 motivation, he duels with 180 aim(90%)
And so on... making it it that u have 0 skills if u duel at 0% mot.
Do it for all duelling skills, & everyone will duel with 100% motivation :)

PS: These are just ideas & by no means perfect, which is why i'm posting them here instead of the Ideas section (Also because the format there makes me confused :p)
So please do not attack this post, but point out any shortcomings & ideas how to overcome them.
Now this is an idea worth exploring........thanks for putting it out there.
 

asdf124

Well-Known Member
Attacks this post

Erm, how do you attack a post, I might get hurt!

On topic, I believe I have made such idea in chat or in forum but not into the way your thinking right now.

My idea was that it wouldn't be as efficient, meaning that you might lose more likely the lower your motivation is and less money.
 

DeletedUser35120

I don't want dueling to be a game of who has more christmas crackers, frankly speaking.
 

Kidd Kalypso

Well-Known Member
I was thinking it may be a good option to silence the zero moti dueling whines.....just my thought. And it is so simple, it should work.
 

Kaos101

Active Member
Sounds simple and could be the answer to zero motivation duelers, I would love to see a duel arena in the middle of the map where levels go out the window and people can duel who ever they like, would solve the age old question zero moti vs XP duelers no one can hide behind their level then.:shootout:
 

RickTractorBolturd

Well-Known Member
i have suggest a decrease in duel skills based upon motivation before but going to zero skills is way too far. Think of it more in terms of jobs and how they gradually lower, but you can still get products. Zero in duel would equal not being able to duel, defeating the point to fixing the system. If 75-100 mot = 100%, then decrease by 5% at the additional levels resulting in a 15% skill loss depending on if that is where the mark is set. Its enough so duelers will feel an impact and can loose some as a result, but not so much where players are forced to buff up to get rid of the pesky fly players who think they are "duelers". Where's the need for level 150 players to keep their motivation high while dueling? Some just don't care about the EXP so don't make it a must.

Still, I would much prefer to find a way to make people want to duel over a small fix to the current busted system. No matter what subtle change is made, I will still have only a handful of targets unless I bible duel, which i don't want to do. I think with that and even giving away the wins and EXP for KO's have only ruined the game that much more. yes I know job KO's were only in the last few years, but by leaving it in, they made it a apart of the game that many became use to or knew no other way of playing. So any small change might help, but the thing needs a retooling from top to bottom at this point... and so does nearly all the aspects of the game... Events, Fair, Shop, Chests, Adventures, FF's... etc etc etc. Any roadmap for the future really looks more and more like a dead end and that's not meant to be negative, just truthful. What's there to be excited for?
 

Micky12

Well-Known Member
Even with this idea you will still have people who will duel with 50% motivation and bible duel when necessary, get rid of bible duels completely and you will kill 2 birds with one stone.
 

DeletedUser35120

I would rather have the motivation affect the payout from the duels.. same as jobs. Playing with skills depending on motivation is not a good idea at all. You would be surprised to know that even I suggested it once, like a year ago.. before I finally saw the drawback of this feature which isn't very nice.
 

William Bresnaham

Agree with Micky12 and Anny Hudson.

Remove duel point/level reduction from lost duels to get rid of the benefit of pillow/bible duels. Still allow duel point/level loss from time spent with no duels as challenger.

Change the cash payout to be tied to duel motivation, just as the cash payout for jobs is tied to work motivation. This would make dueling and jobbing the same as far as the effects of motivation.

These two changes seem simple, and I think would have a good impact on the dueling scene. Unfortunately, they have been posted/suggested before and have not been implemented , so I'm not overly hopeful.


I don't like the idea of duel motivation affecting skill points. Basically making dueling more dangerous the lower your motivation.

It would be the like suggesting that we reduce the skill points of jobs thus total labor points based on work motivation. This could lower the pick ax level of the job increasing the danger of the job as well as lower the luck value by the reduction in labor points.

In both cases, skill reduction based on motivation would be very unpopular to the group affected, and I don't think it is a good idea at all.
 
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BigMeeze

Member
I don's see why throwing out all of this extra stuff and just having one level couldn't solve all of these issues. Put a limit on how far down you can duel and be finished right there. Put a bible in your hand and get knocked out ... The winner gets get the XP and moves on. Part of the game ( for everyone ) should be dueling. Doesn't matter if your a worker, adventurer or dueler. Right now I have to duel up 20 levels to get an honorable duel ???? I might as well duel people on my level and knock them out everyday and just be the OUTLAW of my world.
 

Black Max

Well-Known Member
Meiros' idea of being ranked on 'duel skills' as a solution to the duel level and player level problem is just unrealistic imo (aim/dodge are already not counted in skills ranking systems and are not also used in any jobs, so players who may have reflex or toughness or health will be unfairly ranked higher than pure dodge/aim builds, it also discounts the many other reasons a legitimate dueller will duel for which I outline later).
As is his reduction of effectiveness while dueling (as already pointed out by Anny, it is not a measure on who has the most Christmas crackers: duel motivation buffs).

Please instead consider all the reasons why duellers choose to duel?? Herein lies a solution.

Kidd, Kaos and Meiros, come on a journey with me and consider carefully the points I make:

1) I am a prolific dueller, on every world I've been on since W7, and always I was in the top 20 or so duellers.

**Problem: Not every dueller duels the same amount, so duel level increases don't happen at the same rate between players. So a front runner like myself can effectively duel myself out of any opposition.

Solution: Remove duel level. (It is just not needed. It can be circumvented (reduced) by losing: and this favours resistance builds: which makes a majority of players skill to one kind of build = boring dueling). Instead, a player can duel +/- 15 levels on their player level.

2) I duel for the challenge of beating tough opponents and gaining respect of my fellow duellers.

**Problem: This has been diminished due to buying skills. Skill buying means a player's level may not match their level of skills/attributes. Honour/respect is no longer given.

Solution: Remove this clandestine feature and replace it with the ability to buy a whole player level. Now, a lev 145 player can see a fellow level 145 player is just that, and not a lev 155 player in disguise (through buying 10 atts and 30 skills).

3) Duellers duel for more tactical and financial reasons than 'just' seeking tough opponents. I know this comes as a shock, that a dueller might duel for more reasons than to 'prove' they are the best.

Reasons to duel:

a) To protect fellow town members.

When other duellers come a knocking, nothing brings a town together better than having a posse of duellers take out an enemy town to defend their own and show the other town not to mess with us. :)

b) For profit.

A great way to make money in the game is to hunt bounties or players who are doing cash jobs. It sure beats working for a living.

c) Tactical reasons. To help reduce a fort fighters health just before a battle in order to help your alliance keep their fort.

The above three reasons all rely on the ability of a dueller to duel other players who are members of a town. High duel levels make this impossible/severely limited and take away these features.

Were dueling not a feature of this game, then sure... do things to take away a duellers fun... but it is a feature... so developers should ensure it is fun still.

Personally, I think new features could be added to the game as well.

E.g.: Town tributaries. A non dueling town should be able to pay a tribute to a dueling town in order to not be able to get duelled by them. (Should be agreed on by both towns).

E.g.: Protector Status: Any player should be able to nominate a player or players (of similar level) to act as their protector. When a duel is initiated on them, the dueler knows they must face off against the nominated protector.

E.g.: Dueling Honour ranking tables. (Like player level or town points table: lists all players). With no duel level (can only duel +- 20 levels) and no hidden skill buying (instead a player buys a player level) when a player selects to duel another player, they are told how many honour points that duel will give. +1, +2 +3 or in some cases -1, -2...
 
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