Duel Mot Split...

[DeletedUser]

Ya Rip why not scrap the duel level all together?? narrow the dueling scope to just a few levels either way of the player, and then it will be anyones responsibility to get away from a player if they are being bothered simply level up a couple times! make regular XP from dueling available like fort battles, as it stands xp from dueling is a punishment to be served later on. This is a simple fix but it needs to happen fast we are losing duelers every single day that the system stays the way it is!! This would actualy encourage less dueling as the moti would directly effect how much xp/cash you got! just like any other job. And while your at it, why not make a FF motivation that decreases with every battle!!!

I've suggested this until I was blue in the face, for some reason "I" cannot post ideas to the forum. If someone will post it I'd be more than happy to support it and help iron it out. And oh yes I would love a war with the rest of the duelers I can't touch because of their Dlvls atm . I Have no doubt many of them want a shot at me too!

 

[DeletedUser]

I have decided to be nice about how I reduce my motivation each morning. It is not high, maybe 4% tops in the morning after 8 hours sleep, so I find 2 of the lowest level duel opposition I can find. Now, however, I have changed as I have decided to be nice

I now equip a Drake's (normal weapon Howdah) and duel them with Drake's instead as I give 1/3 of the damage I would normally give. This gets my duel mot down, doesn't ruin someone else's day and gives us ZMD a better name

 

[DeletedUser30224]

I said I will not post here but cannot help myself Any idea that simply removes the Duel Levels and does not replace them with anything will most likely fail. Duel levels were introduced in the system to separate combatants from noncombatants. The more you duelled, the more duel exp you got and that should have taken you away from non-duellers (I think we can link the threefold increase of duel experience to this effort). However, motivation plays a role in the duels and soon people caught on to the idea that winning is satisfying even if you do not get any experience. That coupled with monetary rewards created 0 motivation duellers. I personally think that this behaviour is an exploit but then most definitely job KO is an exploit as well. However, looking and the whole situation as objectively and logically as I can muster, job KO protection and 0mot duelling go hand in hand. If you remove one, the other must go as well, if you keep one, you must keep them both. Speaking as a player I do believe that Inno is trying or will try to address this situation. Now you guys here are most definitely exaggerating that 0 mot duelling is gone, it is far from it as it has been proven by 0 mots in the past days ... maybe it is not fair to call it 0 mot duelling and it should be called low motivation duelling but it is still very much doable. You have brought in valid points that if you are not actively duelling every day, your duel motivation will soar to 100% quite fast (5 days if I am not mistaken). It has gotten a bit harder , depending on each player's circumstances.

Getting a bit sidetracked from what I wanted to say...I cannot deny the fact that duel levels are quite a noble invention after all. Getting rid of them might just be impossible without other drastic changes. To say that player on player duelling should be dependant on the difference between player levels alone is a bit far fetched to be of any use to us. Something else must be introduced to protect non-combatants. Please remember I have said that 0 motivation duelling and job KO go hand in hand. This being said if you allow players to duel each other at will by just comparing player levels, you must keep job KO since that would essentially mean that the whole server just becomes a big soup of 0 motivation duelling. The fact is that we have been accustomed already with job KO's and we are set in our ways about it to be just removed. Once you taste sugar, you never come back ... or however that saying goes. One can argue that job KO existed before in the sense that you could periodically KO yourself on duellers...but it is not nearly the same since you cannot duel while under KO but you can overlap job KO protection if you are still under KO effect, thus renewing it.

Solutions have been posted here already, or at least hints. Lowering duel levels periodically will not be accepted. as the higher your duel lvl is, the more experience can be farmed from you. Pure removal of duel levels will most definitely not fly either. Placing an upper duel lvl cap sounds promising at least in the sense that duellers will finally have a common ground to play on, but even that is not removing the job KO and low motivation duelling out of the picture. It has been suggested that each night, just like job motivation, duelling motivation should be reset. If that will ever happen, then job KO must be eliminated as well.

I would say that the solution is staring us in the face, but then I am set in my own ways and there just might be much more elegant and acceptable alternatives.

 

[DeletedUser23737]

The reality...

Great to see this thread is back, alive and kicking, after being closed...

I dislike the nerfing of npc duels more and more everyday I play.

Since playing The West from W7 days, I have mostly enjoyed the changes brought to the game. I really like the novel ways I have been enticed to spend my money. :laugh:

Sadly, this npc nerfing has been a major backward move in my opinion... and now in my experience.

Each day I wake and hunt for any low level player... unlike some players... I tend to KO them... and they are few and far between already. This means each subsequent time I start dueling I am forced to hit slightly higher level players and raise my duel level.

Why is this a problem?

Well, as part of a town and alliance, I really enjoy the interaction between players. Great towns that I belong to become a type of family where players look after each other with advice/ gear/ items and by dueling enemy duelers who target our lower level players.

By keeping my duel level low, I am able to hit the enemy town's enforcer... and put him/her in his/her place. I can join raiding party out for revenge... or just to cause trouble.

These are the parts of the west that I find most enjoyable... the commradeire.

This update has hurt that town spirit. People have left, people are mad and upset. I am unhappy with the change.

It seems to have limited my options: I used to be able to duel, go work, get items for crafting, complete quests and have the occasional fort fight.

Now... truth be told... I just duel. I can't stand the thought of seeing my duel level slowly creep up... not after taking so much time and care to get my clothes and gun... to put my skills in the correct places.

I know I have become one dimensional on El Dorado... and that in a few months time... I will be hearing players moan and cry when they are dealing with the reality of a high duel level... as I continue to do my thing.

However... I won't be spending more money on a game that is limiting my enjoyment and diminishing the freedoms it once gave me. Seems silly to be taking such a backward step and rewarding it with my hard earned cash.

Lastly... I have offered a few ideas in the forums to improve game play on the west... but it always seems to get swept under the carpet. Perhaps comments won't work... perhaps feedback is not really wanted... perhaps it will take a fall in revenue to make the developers realise the blunder they have made... and so... I will make my little voice count in the only way I can.

 

[DeletedUser8627]

I duel EVERYONE. I always have. No matter how high, how low, or what their class. Last I checked that is what the game was about.

Do you see the problem now? According to your logs, you hit anyone available, not because they are available, but because you're probably 90% sure you can win the duel. This includes players holding, crowbars, daggers, razor blades and back to back bible dueling? Seriously? And these duels took place before the update.

Yet, you are participating in this thread as if you use duelling as a competitive sport. If you did, your KD ratio wouldn't be so far apart from each other. Basic logic there.

Yeah this is typical "I don't play anymore moderator behavior." I laugh because there will always be more players. I laugh at your discomfort and anger over the changes. I "We" (INNO) show with almost every post we make that we really don't care what our players think.

Maybe you should consider that the 15 players here are the ones who have taken it upon themselves to battle for the rest of the players. Just because someone doesn't come here and post doesn't mean they do not exist. You have been around long enough to know that DT. You should be ashamed of yourself as head Moderator around here.

The only Mod who has seemed to care one way or another about (ALL) player issues whether they agree with them or not, now days is zd3no.

I still play this game, a lot. I have 4 worlds, one on each class. What gives you the impression that I don't play this game? In fact, I think all my moderators are playing this game. There was one I was aware of that didn't but he is a forum moderator involved in a section here that has nothing to do with the game.

There are about 500 active forumers on this board, 15 of which have a problem with the change. Another 7 tickets sent in via the ticket support system and 1 via in-game chat a few days ago. Even if I tripled those figures, you are still amongst the minority which has a problem. Rightfully so, it is not wrong to have a problem with changes made to the game, we have always urged our players to come here and post, discuss and provide suggestions. Not because we just want to see how you whinge about these changes, because they are read by the powers. They are taken into consideration and changes made according to the overall gaming plan for this game.

My post earlier was a subtle warning to keep this thread in a manner which would be readable to everyone, it was not meant as an insult towards you or any other player. Your condescending tone is not appreciated.

 

[Pankreas PorFavor]

Do you see the problem now? According to your logs, you hit anyone available, not because they are available, but because you're probably 90% sure you can win the duel. This includes players holding, crowbars, daggers, razor blades and back to back bible dueling? Seriously? And these duels took place before the update.

OK, so Smitty does that. I do that too sometimes. Many duellers (0mot or XP) do that. But.... who's fault is that?! The Wild West - don't go into town flashing your money and gold and getting drunk in the saloon, you'll get robbed! And this is exactly what happens here. Yes, it is a competition! I am competing with this unarmed guy for his money. And I win! It is a player vs. player game and I am winning - get your guns out, boy, it's the wild west!
How in the hell is dueling a problem now when the whole game was based on it from the start?!

 

[DeletedUser8627]

For the same reason that InnoGames should feel obliged to protect it's player base in the best way it can.

Duelling is not a problem, it's how you perceived the change that made it a problem.

 

[Pankreas PorFavor]

I have to disagree with you, Da Twista.
Innogames decided to change how dueling works. Obviously, they wouldn't do it if they thought there wasn't a problem with it. Now, it is easier to make this aspect of the game as hard as possible, in hope that people will just give up on it than admitting you made a mistake in how the game is designed.
The reason is so called "protection" of player base. If you make a game where dueling is one of the most important parts, where you get town points for winning, where this type of activity is the only PvP thing available - what do you expect? I would expect players that want duels. You had them, now you're having less and less of them because new stuff is added and dueling is losing it's importance. But please, don't give us lame excuses and treat us like we're stupid. Innogames decided to change what this game is about, and tht's ok. Just be honest with us about it. We want to separate those who want to duel and those who want to farm products or collect items or whatever. Good. Do that. You are taking a turn in game development and you're abandoning dueling. Just have the decency to say it, don't tell us we are an uncivilized bunch of bullies because we're playing the game in the way it was designed a couple of years ago.

Or give us a duel level cap, say 3x actual level. Don't remove duel levels - that's exactly what 0mot is, removing duel level so you can duel people of your actual level. remove dueling motivation, make our duel level rise and cap it at 450 so everyone who duels will get there and there will always be a constant increase of targets at DL 450. Unless people restart. Then, if you decide you don't want to duel - let the DL decrease*. Say, for every week you don't initiate a duel, your DL drops for 3. In a year your DL will be a bit below 300, just so you don't get too low too quickly and start hitting non-duelers again. And during that year, if you reskill and do something else, you'll be where your targets were - in a position of a defenseless cash cow. Is that fair enough for everyone?

 

[DeletedUser]

Each day I wake and hunt for any low level player... unlike some players... I tend to KO them... and they are few and far between already. This means each subsequent time I start dueling I am forced to hit slightly higher level players and raise my duel level.

Why is this a problem?

Well, as part of a town and alliance, I really enjoy the interaction between players. Great towns that I belong to become a type of family where players look after each other with advice/ gear/ items and by dueling enemy duelers who target our lower level players.

By keeping my duel level low, I am able to hit the enemy town's enforcer... and put him/her in his/her place. I can join raiding party out for revenge... or just to cause trouble.

These are the parts of the west that I find most enjoyable... the commradeire.

This update has hurt that town spirit. People have left, people are mad and upset. I am unhappy with the change.

Don't you see that the enemy duelers also will raise their duelling level with this update, meaning you will still be able to duel them, and soon, they will not be able to duel your town's low level players.

Win-Win

 

[canufeelit]

For the same reason that InnoGames should feel obliged to protect it's player base in the best way it can.

griefing is a problem (large or small) for most online competitive games. imho it is large problem for the west, especially at the lower levels where they know little about the correct clothes and job koes.

i applaud inno for finally doing something about it even if i disagree with the method.

glad i could help in bringing a change

 

[DeletedUser8627]

I have to disagree with you, Da Twista.
Innogames decided to change how dueling works. Obviously, they wouldn't do it if they thought there wasn't a problem with it. Now, it is easier to make this aspect of the game as hard as possible, in hope that people will just give up on it than admitting you made a mistake in how the game is designed.
The reason is so called "protection" of player base. If you make a game where dueling is one of the most important parts, where you get town points for winning, where this type of activity is the only PvP thing available - what do you expect? I would expect players that want duels. You had them, now you're having less and less of them because new stuff is added and dueling is losing it's importance. But please, don't give us lame excuses and treat us like we're stupid. Innogames decided to change what this game is about, and tht's ok. Just be honest with us about it. We want to separate those who want to duel and those who want to farm products or collect items or whatever. Good. Do that. You are taking a turn in game development and you're abandoning dueling. Just have the decency to say it, don't tell us we are an uncivilized bunch of bullies because we're playing the game in the way it was designed a couple of years ago.

I've not been dishonest with you here. I've given you my thoughts and reasoning behind the change, I've already stated I'm not against nor for this change - I'm sitting on the fence and looking at both sides of the playing field.

Duelling was never considered to be abandoned, not in the least. This is the first change of many to come, why would you say we are abandoning a perfectly good feature within the game? If we were to throw this feature out, why does it even appear on the road map.

 

[Pankreas PorFavor]

Duelling was never considered to be abandoned, not in the least. This is the first change of many to come, why would you say we are abandoning a perfectly good feature within the game? If we were to throw this feature out, why does it even appear on the road map.

Roadmap... is that the same roadmap that used to mention shops being built in forts? And I ask myself the same question - why would you throw this dueling feature out? And I didn't start asking that question when duel motivation split was announced, that's been on my mind for a long time.
But as I said - forget about it. Inno wants to separate those who duel and those who don't, and we'll basically have two games in one. OK, make it so. Role of a bandit is out. I learned to play in a world where bandits would rob your whole town in a matter of minutes, and I adjusted. But "player base" went crying to Inno and they decided to "protect" them. OK. No more bandits, no more PvP in the form we used to know. Let's move on.

 

[DeletedUser8627]

Roadmap... is that the same roadmap that used to mention shops being built in forts? And I ask myself the same question - why would you throw this dueling feature out? And I didn't start asking that question when duel motivation split was announced, that's been on my mind for a long time.
But as I said - forget about it. Inno wants to separate those who duel and those who don't, and we'll basically have two games in one. OK, make it so. Role of a bandit is out. I learned to play in a world where bandits would rob your whole town in a matter of minutes, and I adjusted. But "player base" went crying to Inno and they decided to "protect" them. OK. No more bandits, no more PvP in the form we used to know. Let's move on.

That roadmap is an indicator on what you can expect this year, it's not a promise. At least you're involved in a game that has ongoing development happening. Many online games of this nature doesn't.

But I understand, it's human nature to find fault in everything when you're upset.

Your perception on duelling is somewhat distorted though. It wasn't removed, it was adjusted. Roleplay a bandit if you must, you are still able to. You can still rob towns in a matter of minutes as you put it. 0% mot or not, I don't see how that will affect your raids?

 

[DeletedUser19518]

Once more Inno is using its one way communication - direction.
Nevermind.
But i have some doubts if new update on dueling will work and will affect 0 mot.
So am asking, if 0 mot decide to duel some players from 3 to 9 exp, until they go 0 mot they will gain from 1 to 3 dueling exp, what is gonna happened? Theoritically it seems that their level will be up faster. Practically it will be hard to lvl up.

V
$1

 

[Pankreas PorFavor]

That roadmap is an indicator on what you can expect this year, it's not a promise. At least you're involved in a game that has ongoing development happening. Many online games of this nature doesn't.

But I understand, it's human nature to find fault in everything when you're upset.

Your perception on duelling is somewhat distorted though. It wasn't removed, it was adjusted. Roleplay a bandit if you must, you are still able to. You can still rob towns in a matter of minutes as you put it. 0% mot or not, I don't see how that will affect your raids?

actually, you're right. since roadmap is an indicator, and not a promise, why would one post by Joony saying that this is only a first step in fighting 0mot mean anything? it's not like THAT is anything official, right?
I like playing 0mot, and I will have a harder time doing it from now on. sometimes I can't log in everyday, sometimes I have to go in vacation mode, and my duel motivation will rise. I will come back and duel real players instead of NPCs. until step 2 and 3 etc. are implemented. I don't see how that helps anyone, but I hope Inno will prove me wrong. I just hope that we won't end up with duelers (bandits, robbers, bullies) isolated from everyone else.

 

[rohith4444]

m reading every post but m not good in posting/reply but i can't hold my say what to say m very active in this game almost from 2 years (even i put my RL behing to hang out with friends in this game ) never liked dueling but still went for a dueler to hang with my friends i made in dueling towns in my 2 main worlds i see my town died in coloroda cos of new fort fighting formula where m in pure forting town and saw many good fortfighters who quit now i m seeing duelers in another 2 worlds i play as they are my main worlds i don't want to argue about this update cos it's good for (maybe) many ppl but not good for my townies and myself where i duel that we trying to quit GL INNO

 

[DeletedUser8627]

actually, you're right. since roadmap is an indicator, and not a promise, why would one post by Joony saying that this is only a first step in fighting 0mot mean anything? it's not like THAT is anything official, right?
I like playing 0mot, and I will have a harder time doing it from now on. sometimes I can't log in everyday, sometimes I have to go in vacation mode, and my duel motivation will rise. I will come back and duel real players instead of NPCs. until step 2 and 3 etc. are implemented. I don't see how that helps anyone, but I hope Inno will prove me wrong. I just hope that we won't end up with duelers (bandits, robbers, bullies) isolated from everyone else.

Joony is the Lead CM of The West, his word is official. But I also mentioned a few pages back that how he portrayed ZMD in bad light was not intentional. While it is found that ZMD is problematic, I do not think he meant to portray the feature in poor taste.

We'll blame it on his German accent

 

[Pankreas PorFavor]

Joony is the Lead CM of The West, his word is official. But I also mentioned a few pages back that how he portrayed ZMD in bad light was not intentional. While it is found that ZMD is problematic, I do not think he meant to portray the feature in poor taste.

We'll blame it on his German accent

the focus is not on how he portrayed ZMD. I don't care if he said "ZMD is great and we love them, but we are taking steps to remove this kind of gameplay", or if he said "ZMD are a bunch of mean bullies that we will remove from the game". the point is in the removal of this style of play from the game, and I see no reason to do it. there are many ways you can protect (especially low level) players from unwanted duels and bullying, complete removal of ZMD is the one I dislike the most. increase the 1h between attacks on the same player to one week if you want to prevent camping, make it so that no more than X players from one town can attack the same player, remove dueling motivation completely and add a DL cap, no duels for level X and below... many things can be done.
poor choice of words or not - removing ZMD is the aim of all of this and I don't like it.

 

[DeletedUser8627]

Don't you think if they wanted to completely remove zero motivation duelling, they could have simply made it that duel motivation resets to 100% at midnight like it does with jobs?

 

[DeletedUser23437]

Don't you think if they wanted to completely remove zero motivation duelling, they could have simply made it that duel motivation resets to 100% at midnight like it does with jobs?

shhh... don't give them this idea...

Joony is the Lead CM of The West, his word is official. But I also mentioned a few pages back that how he portrayed ZMD in bad light was not intentional. While it is found that ZMD is problematic, I do not think he meant to portray the feature in poor taste.

We'll blame it on his German accent

and can you point me to the spot Joony posted please??