Criminial or Humanitarian

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DeletedUser22575

http://colorlines.com/archives/2010/09/leaving_water_for_migrants_not_a_crime_court_says.html

http://colorlines.com/archives/2010...border_are_blood_on_us_politicians_hands.html


During a bench trial two years ago, U.S. Magistrate Judge Bernardo P. Velasco in Tucson found Daniel Millis guilty of littering.

Prosecutors said Millis left behind garbage and failed to follow orders by federal agents to remove it from the Buenos Aires National Wildlife Refuge in southern Arizona.

....the Crime? Humanitarian Aid leaving full gallon jugs of water in the desert for illegal aliens trying to cross the border into the United States.

Wildlife officials have said there are enormous problems with trash, much of it caused by illegal immigrants who regularly travel through, so it's imperative they enforce littering laws.

Mills was cleared of any wrongdoing by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals recently.

“It’s a win,” Millis said. “We’re happy with the outcome but we’re not happy with the situation that continues to exist. I’m thinking about how this can hopefully turn into better border policy.”

Not if the federal government can help it. Millis said that his defense, led by Arizona attorney Bill Walker, was forbidden to mention in court why he was out there in the first place, and why No More Deaths does its work. Millis was forced to argue his case without what he called a necessity defense.

In recent years, multiple border activists have been cited for littering by the Fish and Wildlife officers. In June 2009, a federal jury convicted another activist on a similar littering charge. No More Deaths activist Walt Staton was sentenced to 300 hours of community service and a year of probation.

On Thursday the Ninth Circuit reminded Millis that their verdict would likely not protect humanitarian aid groups from future prosecution. Still, it’s some vindication for a group that has no plans to stop helping people who make the treacherous journey through the country’s dangerous borders. “It’s a moral admission by the U.S. government,” Millis said. “It’s a little bit of their conscience peeping out, that maybe this is not the best use of our taxpayer money.”

Apparently our government is more concerned with litter than saving the lives of human beings who want to come to our countries even if it be illegally.


My question..is this guy a criminal, or a Good Samaritan.
 
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DeletedUser

I've been an Arizona resident for over 7 years now and I worked as a corrections officer in a federal prison where many of the illegal aliens were brought to wait sentencing or a return to their country of origin, mostly mexicans. While I have chosen not to take sides in the border issues I think this man is a humanitarian almost on the level of doctors without borders. Politics and laws should never trump the sanctity of human life. He isn't helping people cross the border, he's just trying to help save their lives. And until you've spent time in the Arizona desert you have no idea just how much water it takes to survive it. That's a horrible way to die.
 

DeletedUser

I am in agreement with Shea here. It is criminal that they attempt to prosecute these guys for leaving jugs of water out for people who may be stranded in the desert, illegal or otherwise.
 

DeletedUser

I am in agreement with Shea here. It is criminal that they attempt to prosecute these guys for leaving jugs of water out for people who may be stranded in the desert, illegal or otherwise.

Agreed.

When decency is a criminal act, the laws must be changed.
 

DeletedUser

i dont see a problem with helping them with food and water ..... as long as its followed with a free ride back to there side of the border
 

DeletedUser

i dont see a problem with helping them with food and water ..... as long as its followed with a free ride back to there side of the border
So it's conditional? Wow, is there no lower you can stoop?

Anyway, just to make it clear, they leave the water out there, in the desert. They don't hang around and hand out water/food to anyone waltzing by.
 

DeletedUser16628

I agree there should be no issue providing water for these illegals to drink when crossing our borders illegally.I could not agree more about the free ride back to there own country.I've been a temporary resident of Tuscon AZ. for 6 years and have seen to much but enough to know they must go back and go through proper channels.
 
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DeletedUser

So it's conditional? Wow, is there no lower you can stoop?

Anyway, just to make it clear, they leave the water out there, in the desert. They don't hang around and hand out water/food to anyone waltzing by.
EVERYTHING in life is conditional my friend in some form or another thats life :p

besides they would only be following US law by escorting them back to thre country ;)
 

DeletedUser22575

EVERYTHING in life is conditional my friend in some form or another thats life :p

besides they would only be following US law by escorting them back to thre country ;)

Actually they would be violating the law by escorting them back to there country. They are entitled to a deportation hearing by law before being sent back home.
 

DeletedUser8675

Keep the illegal immigrants that are already here, let them learn to drive, and give them no welfare. Also, since many of them are working here and are being paid under the table, then allow them to have a bank account and make them pay taxes. Then, fortify and secure the border so that no more get in without going through the law.
Deporting them does next to nothing, most of them just keep coming back.
 

DeletedUser

Keep the illegal immigrants that are already here, let them learn to drive, and give them no welfare. Also, since many of them are working here and are being paid under the table, then allow them to have a bank account and make them pay taxes. Then, fortify and secure the border so that no more get in without going through the law.
Deporting them does next to nothing, most of them just keep coming back.


regan tried that when all the democracts begged him

then they prevented him from properly secruin the border and now our illegal problem is a thousand times worse


secure teh border FIRST then we can discuss what to do with the illegals here on a case by case basis no blanket amnisty
 

DeletedUser8675

To save money I say do not send the ones that are here home, make them pay taxes as they are working and making $$ and being illegally paid.
Yes I understand it is not as feasible as it may seem, Reagan tried it, yada yada yada.. but it is our "only option"
As I said, deporting does next to no good
 

DeletedUser

all teh violent criminals need to be dropped off at the southern border of mexico
 

DeletedUser

regan tried that when all the democracts begged him

then they prevented him from properly secruin the border and now our illegal problem is a thousand times worse
Wow, it was Reagan's idea, not the Democrats. Get your facts straight. It was also poorly implemented and did not include anything in it's design to address future illegal crossings. What it had hoped to do was enforce the laws pertaining to penalizing businesses for hiring illegal immigrants, but it failed to do that... "because" of a largely Republican Congress at the Federal level, which found it "unpopular" with corporations and other businesses to enforce a law that would cost them money... because they would no longer be allowed to hire illegal aliens without penalty.

As to deportation, once again the issue has little to do with them being here, it has to do with those who are hiring them in the first place. And let me tell you, the problem is not merely a U.S. business exploitation, it is an exploitation in their own countries, where the governments of Mexico and other central American countries are too busy robbing the treasury, leaving their citizens with no other option than to fend for themselves. No health care, no welfare, no social security benefits for disability or retirement, nothing. If you don't find a means to make money, you literally die.

So if you want to be heartless, go ahead and act like illegal aliens are somehow hurting the U.S., but it's a bold-faced lie. Not only are there a huge number of companies benefiting from exploiting illegal aliens, but these self-same companies are providing products for you at a reduced price. What it IS hurting is the U.S. Government's Treasury (IRS), because they're losing out on taxes that they could use to pay for their wars and military-industrial purchases.

secure teh border FIRST then we can discuss what to do with the illegals here on a case by case basis no blanket amnisty
As I indicated in an earlier thread, "Secure The Borders" is code for racism. The border of Canada is not even in question, not even considered. The Mexico border is the only one being addressed with this code language. I spent decades in that region, and I have to tell you straight off, if you don't know it's racism, I'm telling you it is. EVERY single leading figure I have spoken to and interviewed regarding the border, who uses code language like, "Secure The Borders" demonstrated themselves to be racist.

The issue isn't illegal aliens entering the U.S., it's racism trying to exploit 9/11 as a means to infer, through the use of the word, "SECURE," that the U.S./Mexican border is unsafe because people can cross it easily. But the truth is, the Canadian border is FAR easier to cross. If a terrorist were going to attempt to enter the U.S., they wouldn't bother with the Mexican border, they would jump on a boat or plane and land in Canada, then waltz over the border into the U.S.

So, the claim of "Secure The Border" is a renaming of the ol' "Mexicans Are Taking Back California" scare. Let's face it, the only real threat here is to some people's misguided sense of American Purity.

Anyway, returning to the point of this whole thread... the issue here is about whether these people should be deemed criminal for leaving jugs of water in the desert.
EVERYTHING in life is conditional my friend in some form or another thats life :p
Remove all other actions, focus only on leaving jugs of water in the desert for the purpose of saving HUMAN lives, how can you consider such an action criminal, and how could you even consider imposing CONDITIONS to something like this?!?

You claim you're a Christian, but if what you demonstrate is what they call a Christian, I want no part of it.
 

DeletedUser

secure the borders is code for SECURE THE BORDERS SO PEOPLE CANT CROSS IT ILLEGALY racebaiting by claiming its anything else is simply inexcuseable


people arnt crossing into teh us from canida by the hundreds of thousands when that happens then well secure that border as well


if you have a swiming pool and one side has a leak and the other does not you FIX THE LEAK FIRST then you can watch the other side for potential leaks afterwards



oh and fyi regan had a DEMOCRATIC congress lol they controlled both house and senate
 
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DeletedUser

oh and fyi regan had a DEMOCRATIC congress lol they controlled both house and senate
lol, how often are you going to be proven wrong?

The 99th Congress ruled at the time the Immigration law was put into effect, and Republicans controlled the Senate (the greater power in Congress). Just in case you're inclined to try and argue that it was the previous Congress that forced the Immigration act to the table, Republicans ruled the roost for both the 97th Congress and the 98th Congress as well.

(yes, those are hotlinks, go edumacate yourself there spider)

secure the borders is code for SECURE THE BORDERS SO PEOPLE CANT CROSS IT ILLEGALY racebaiting by claiming its anything else is simply inexcuseable
You know, I don't really care if you want to claim it is inexcusable, it's the truth and there's plenty of evidence to support it, not the least of which, "Secure The Borders" was a slogan created after 9/11, and yet illegal border crossing has existed for almost a century.

You can cry, scream, whine all you want, but the evidence is substantial that the issue is not the borders, it's the AMERICAN EMPLOYERS of illegal aliens. Once again, if there's no jobs here, there's no motivation to cross the borders.
 

DeletedUser

aaaand on that note since your unable to see that your blatantly racebaiting this conversation is over theres no point int trying to have an open debate with someone who racebaits and makes blanket accusations based on crackpot conspericacy theroies
 

DeletedUser

Oh this is fun...

race–bait·ing

noun, often attributive \ˈrās-ˌbā-tiŋ\
Definition of RACE-BAITING

: the making of verbal attacks against members of a racial group

© 2010 Merriam-Webster online dictionary




Methinks you're not quite understanding the phrase. lol
 

DeletedUser

Definition of RACE-BAITING

: the making of verbal attacks against members of a racial group


Race baiting is any form of speech, actions, or other forms of communication, to anger, intimidate or incite a person or race of people,[1] to behave in ways that are inimical, and often harmful, to their personal or group interests. The term "race" in this context can be construed very broadly to include a collection of whatever aesthetic features define a race or ethnicity.[citation needed] Thus the use of any language or actions for the purpose of exploiting actual or perceived weaknesses in persons who can be identified as members of certain groups in order to do them some sort of harm can be contained within the concept of "race baiting."
 

DeletedUser22575

Definition of RACE-BAITING

: the making of verbal attacks against members of a racial group


Race baiting is any form of speech, actions, or other forms of communication, to anger, intimidate or incite a person or race of people,[1] to behave in ways that are inimical, and often harmful, to their personal or group interests. The term "race" in this context can be construed very broadly to include a collection of whatever aesthetic features define a race or ethnicity.[citation needed] Thus the use of any language or actions for the purpose of exploiting actual or perceived weaknesses in persons who can be identified as members of certain groups in order to do them some sort of harm can be contained within the concept of "race baiting."

Where did this definition come from? What source?
 
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