Corrosive Acid

[DeletedUser]

1. Tragic damage range and limit for players leveled enough to use it.

It's not supposed to be a great duelling weapon, it's meant for doing jobs. Just like the Trompet is.

2. You throw acid, fling acid or spray acid. You don't smash it into objects while its in your hand. Vigor (raw muscle power) or Shooting (precision with projectiles)? Which one seems more of a fit? How is this item melee?? I dare anyone to rationally explain this.

Every other ranged weapon is a gun (yes, I'm ignoring the boomerang since it doesn't fit my arguments ). These all require precision and proficiencies that I would actually argue should only come from the Aim skill (how is shooting different from Aim?), but let's just call it 'Shooting'. Throwing an item - which I suppose is done with the acid - requires something very different from firing a gun. The aiming process is completely different and the firing method certainly is. I don't think it's that far off to make damage dependant on raw muscle power as you put it.

3. The set affords +18 Shooting ONLY if the Corrosive Acid (melee!!) is equipped (all 6 items are required).

You just answered that yourself:

4. The set is explicitly meant to help with the Charlatan job, which requires NO vigor, but does require shooting. Same goes for Smuggling Goods (another job using the set).
5. The Black Bowler Hat and Brown Waistcoat both afford shooting buffs and no vigor buffs. Who thought it would be a good idea to pair them with a melee weapon??
6. The Charlatan job requires NO strength skills. Not one. However, it does require dexterity. It's not a brawn job. It's a brain job.

The whole set (as all other sets) is designed for doing jobs, not duelling. Thus the 18 shooting is providing a very good bonus for the jobs, while not affecting duelling. In my oppinion it's a bonus much better than +18 Vigor would be - as you still wouldn't be able to duel, and you'd be worse at the jobs.

 

[DeletedUser]

Every other ranged weapon is a gun (yes, I'm ignoring the boomerang since it doesn't fit my arguments ).

You're also ignoring throwing knives, slingshots, and pebbles/fire stones/granite, which are all aimed differently from guns.

 

[DeletedUser]

Dr.Drud's whole post is hogwash.
If you're going to debate a point use facts. You're openly participating in a debate and then stating that you're ignoring facts because they don't support your argument?

I'm sure Newton would've have loved that luxury.

 

[DeletedUser]

Dr.Drud's whole post is hogwash.
If you're going to debate a point use facts. You're openly participating in a debate and then stating that you're ignoring facts because they don't support your argument?

I'm sure Newton would've have loved that luxury.

The whole set (as all other sets) is designed for doing jobs, not duelling.

I'm not sure why balance is such a tough concept for you.

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm not sure why balance is such a tough concept for you.

It's not really but that wasn't quite the point I was trying to make.

I'm glad someone has made an official query about the "Infamous Magically Applied Corrosive Acid That Doesn't Burn Your Hands When Rubbed On Your Opponents Face".

When it comes down to plain logical reasoning, a vale or vase of corrosive acid would be thrown, it's as simple as that. Taken into context of where this item finds it's place in the skill set and more so in the game, I can say that I can almost understand (if I gave them the benefit of the doubt) where the reasoning came in for it being a melee weapon, how ever badly or ill thought out it may be.

Item sets in my opinion have been put into the game to give us alternative methods of doing certain jobs for quests exp and cash. The only reasoning I can phantom for it being a melee weapon is that the dueling skills that it provides after all six items are collected are top heavy... but considering that you can only use all 6 of them at level 45, I don't see why the heck they shouldn't be allowed to ranged duelers.

The Acid's damage (4-80) is in check with the other level 43 firearm, the precise pepperbox revolver (27-73). In my opinion a little weaker. If you really think about it, the dueling skills you obtain from the set are also in check with what you would otherwise be wearing as a dueler at that level. You're simply replacing the better dueling items with the set bonus.

Getting to a point, if choosing to go with an item set to do a certain job you would otherwise not be able to do is seen as a mayor gain, then there should in return be a price to pay for using it to balance things out (ex. duelers becoming more vulnerable). If it wasn't they're intention for the set to be used for ranged dueling at all, they should simply remove some of the + shooting and + aim and distribute it towards something else. Or keep it as it and come up with a better weapon that is in fact a melee weapon.

If it were a scalpel or something of the sort, then by all means, the set works fine in my opinion. But as it stands, I'm completely baffled.

A tough concept for me to grasp would be why jobs are seen in a different light as dueling. Dueling is just part of the triple decker sandwich. The other two slices being jobs and constructing of course. If certain sets help at jobs while others help at construction I see absolutely no reason why a set shouldn't be available for duelers. I wouldn't exactly say that the charlatan set assists duelers. Duelers would just be less vulnerable.

 

[DeletedUser]

My post was merely a 'Devil's Advocate' reply to find some sort of explanation to the weapon being melee. I've re-read it again, and the first part of it was indeed fairly stupid reading. You have my sincerest apology for the first half of my earlier post.

You're also ignoring throwing knives, slingshots, and pebbles/fire stones/granite, which are all aimed differently from guns.

That's true, I thought there might have been another dueller weapon besides the boomerang but I had forgotten what it was (the throwing knives). I didn't even think about the slingshots nor stones at all...

The Throwing Knives and Pebbles/Fire Stones/Granite are all very good examples (that I'm honestly surprised haven't been brought up in this thread yet) of weapons that are thrown - in much the same way that I see the Acid being used - and they are all firearm weapons!

But if I can repeat the main point of my last post it simply was that the +18 shooting is meant to be usefull towards jobs, and not the weapon. Had that particular bonus been +18 to Vigor the set had been worse for anyone using them for jobs, and still worthless for ranged duellers. Had the weapon simply been a ranged weapon (and I do agree this would make more sense, btw), it's still sub par as Revn argued earlier. If I spotted an enemy fighter with the full set on (instead of duelling clothes) I'd attack right away wether the weapon was melee or ranged.

So, to conclude: My best answer to the question 'why the heck is this thing melee?' is that the developer's have either a) not thought about it at all or b) been very afraid of creating an 'ultimate set' and felt a need to nerf the wearer's duelling capabilites. I'm leaning towards b

 

[DeletedUser]

No need for an apology, but we're square!

I'd like to lean towards B myself, and if that was indeed the reasoning behind it I'd say it was a poor attempt. My instincts however tell me to vote A.

g

 

[DeletedUser]

It's not really but that wasn't quite the point I was trying to make.



A tough concept for me to grasp would be why jobs are seen in a different light as dueling. Dueling is just part of the triple decker sandwich. The other two slices being jobs and constructing of course. If certain sets help at jobs while others help at construction I see absolutely no reason why a set shouldn't be available for duelers. I wouldn't exactly say that the charlatan set assists duelers. Duelers would just be less vulnerable.

Jobs aren't pvp? Or did that not-so-subtle difference escape you?

 

[DeletedUser]

Straight from the project lead's mouth:

eiswiesel ‎(12:12 PM):
you're right. acid should be a ranged weapon

 

[DeletedUser1105]

Straight from the project lead's mouth:

eiswiesel ‎(12:12 PM):
you're right. acid should be a ranged weapon

It's nice to know they are prepared to recognise when they have made a mistake. I assume this will be changed then?

 

[DeletedUser]

Yeah, it will be

 

[DeletedUser]

Good thing they didn't just come up with an excuse as lame as the one posted in the first post of the page before this one...

It looks like option a) was indeed the most correct one!

 

[DeletedUser]

And are they going to fix the typo with the Damage range? Obviously it should say 40-80

 

[DeletedUser]

Throwing an item - which I suppose is done with the acid - requires something very different from firing a gun. The aiming process is completely different and the firing method certainly is. I don't think it's that far off to make damage dependant on raw muscle power as you put it.

First, I understand that the developers will be making the Acid ranged (Thanks, Morthy and Gem).

But, just to explain myself a bit better... Aim and Shooting are not the same, and the variable here isn't the weapon itself. Aim is mental, Vigor/Shooting is physical.

Aim denotes a talent for judging distance and velocity (trajectory). Aim, in my mind, is nothing but pure mental perception and math, etc. It is not physical at all.

Shooting denotes a talent for quickly and precisely firing a projectile at a target (after aiming in your head). Consider Shooting a sub-skill of Aim, in that just because you can conceptualize distance, velocity, and trajectory, it doesn't mean you are able to physically make it happen. Shooting also denotes an ability to move your hands quickly and fluidly without compromising your aim.

Vigor is the same. It's the ability to (after aiming in your head), make your arm, fist, hand, fingers, leg (whatever) physically fulfill the mental calculations effectively. Vigor also denotes an ability to put all of your raw strength into a swing without compromising your aim.

The more vigor and shooting you have, the more likely your body is to make that mental calculation (aim) come true -- hitting an exact spot with deadly precision.

 

[DeletedUser]

Jobs aren't pvp? Or did that not-so-subtle difference escape you?

You're not really contributing much here. I'm more than willing to discuss something with you if you'd make a point and elaborate a little bit. Three to four word sentences hardly mean anything to me... unless of course you planned on typing a little more and suddenly found the difference (which would have amounted into something worth reading) escape you?

Well... good news is it's being changed.

 

[DeletedUser]

You're not really contributing much here. I'm more than willing to discuss something with you if you'd make a point and elaborate a little bit. Three to four word sentences hardly mean anything to me... unless of course you planned on typing a little more and suddenly found the difference (which would have amounted into something worth reading) escape you?

Well... good news is it's being changed.

Essentially it's going around in circles since everything's been said already. Repeating what others have said is pointless. Sometimes it's unnecessary to write a novel to express what can be said in a few sentences.

Also, I did state the difference.

 

[DeletedUser]

Corrosive acid is a ranged weapon look at the title it says "firearm"

 

[DeletedUser]

Corrosive acid is a ranged weapon look at the title it says "firearm"

This discussion is from three months ago before it was changed...

Wow, I was still using flickr back then.

 

[DeletedUser]

strange that they changed it

 

[DeletedUser]

strange that they changed it

Not if you'd read the discussion....

1) Charlatan's set bonuses are for ranged duelers.
2) Common sense. You don't bludgeon someone with a flask of acid, you throw it.