DeletedUser34315
http://prntscr.com/1vodbq
You see that dueling level? Clearly, I have fought a lot of pure duelers. Not wanting to see dueling wrecked does not mean we are all 0 mots.
http://prntscr.com/1vodbq
You see that dueling level? Clearly, I have fought a lot of pure duelers. Not wanting to see dueling wrecked does not mean we are all 0 mots.
DeletedUser27863
personally i am not a dueller but i think that making an arena for duels would ruin the west appearance. back in time you could be ambushed anywhere and robbed. but if we are speaking about 'honorary' duels they happen only in town- so why not making it obligatory to be in town. if you have to be present at fort to FF, then why not making it obligatory for duellers to search players that are currently in towns (no matter if it is their own or not)?
and also- if you are about to make new sets in future, why not making them realistic: army set, mexican set,.. instead of some magic, unknown guy's, weather sets?
and also- if you are about to make new sets in future, why not making them realistic: army set, mexican set,.. instead of some magic, unknown guy's, weather sets?
DeletedUser
"Realistic"? You clearly don't know much about the real history of the Old West, which wasn't even remotely close to as violent as it's portrayed. If by realistic you mean consistent with the Old West as portrayed in the Western genre, you need to watch a few Westerns and pay attention. Gunmen mostly fight each other. Bandits might occasionally terrorize town members, but as for actual gun fights I would say fewer than 1% of Western movies and TV show episodes have a scenario where a gunman forces a peaceful town member into a duel.
The dueling system of the game has zero resemblance to the reality of the Old West or fictional portrayals of the Old West, period. The only thing it resembles is any MMO which has a fairly open pvp system.
DeletedUser
Then divide map in few areas, where those on far west/east borders of map are peacefull and no duels can take place, but you only have some low level jobs available in those maps.
On the other hand, best cash/xp/luck jobs would only be available in middle sectors map where dueling is free like now.
Dueling level should be completely removed. Instead, dueling protection could be enforced by map position.
If you wanna do good jobs, then take some risks.
Don't wanna be dueled? Fine. Then go picking corn.
On the other hand, best cash/xp/luck jobs would only be available in middle sectors map where dueling is free like now.
Dueling level should be completely removed. Instead, dueling protection could be enforced by map position.
If you wanna do good jobs, then take some risks.
Don't wanna be dueled? Fine. Then go picking corn.
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DeletedUser
DeletedUser
I cannot see the idea of having a duelling arena working, it will kill off duellling in my opinion. I strongly believe this.
I know the west tends to concentrate on fort fighting more than duelling and this is probably because more people fort fight than duel, but i cannot see how this idea will work for us duellers.
Maybe you have some ideas about it that i havent thought of, and i hope this is the case.
I would also think that part of the game for non duellers is avoiding people that duel.
From my point of view i do not duel non duellers because i get nothing out of it. I just go for other duellers and any bounties that are on offer.
The arranged duel not being in the arena wouldnt work either. Two reasons for this, firstly alot of duellers just go for easy targets and would always decline the duel and secondly someone with say 3k hp or a reflex dueller would never be koed in one duel. So once they have low hp they can just decline the duel and not be koed.
On the zero motivation thing..... I first started to become a 0 mot dueller becasue i didnt want my townmates being duelled by 0 mot towns and me not being able to duel them back. But also a major part of staying 0 MOT now is because the higher the duelling level i become the less people i would have to duel.
Maybe your idea of resetting motivation every day would work (although i am doubtful about it) Again i would be a little concerned that the more active duellers would again suffer with lack of "targets" compared to other duellers that dont play as much. If this happened to me i can see me logging in weekly rather than daily and eventually probably end up quitting.
I know its not an easy solution you have to find.
An idea i have, would be that once a player reaches level 120, they can duel any other player who is level 120 no matter what their duelling level is. This making duelling level irrelavant once you hit 120. Maybe you could have an "opt in" option for people who would like to do this.
The advantage of this is that duellers will not be short of other duellers to duel and it might even encourage more people who don't like to fort fight play the west.
I know the west tends to concentrate on fort fighting more than duelling and this is probably because more people fort fight than duel, but i cannot see how this idea will work for us duellers.
Maybe you have some ideas about it that i havent thought of, and i hope this is the case.
I would also think that part of the game for non duellers is avoiding people that duel.
From my point of view i do not duel non duellers because i get nothing out of it. I just go for other duellers and any bounties that are on offer.
The arranged duel not being in the arena wouldnt work either. Two reasons for this, firstly alot of duellers just go for easy targets and would always decline the duel and secondly someone with say 3k hp or a reflex dueller would never be koed in one duel. So once they have low hp they can just decline the duel and not be koed.
On the zero motivation thing..... I first started to become a 0 mot dueller becasue i didnt want my townmates being duelled by 0 mot towns and me not being able to duel them back. But also a major part of staying 0 MOT now is because the higher the duelling level i become the less people i would have to duel.
Maybe your idea of resetting motivation every day would work (although i am doubtful about it) Again i would be a little concerned that the more active duellers would again suffer with lack of "targets" compared to other duellers that dont play as much. If this happened to me i can see me logging in weekly rather than daily and eventually probably end up quitting.
I know its not an easy solution you have to find.
An idea i have, would be that once a player reaches level 120, they can duel any other player who is level 120 no matter what their duelling level is. This making duelling level irrelavant once you hit 120. Maybe you could have an "opt in" option for people who would like to do this.
The advantage of this is that duellers will not be short of other duellers to duel and it might even encourage more people who don't like to fort fight play the west.
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DeletedUser35471
I'm really not digging this no more 0 motivation duelling. The success of this game is due to the multitude of paths from which a character can choose. Fortfighting, duelling, crafting, jobbing, questing and even trading. Each of these categories branches off even further creating more options for a player to choose from. Each of these sub-categories demonstrates TRADEOFFS. The idea of a tradeoff is giving something up in order to get something else.
Duelling encompasses two primary incentives. One is experience to level up faster. The second is a lower duelling level, meaning more targets long term. Both of these options have tradeoffs, much like when choosing between Melee dueller or Ranged Dueller (Melee = more hp, Ranged = more aim/dodge). Duelling for experience grants more experience to a player at the cost of raising his duelling level, meaning smaller amount of targets. Duelling at 0 motivation grants a player a larger amount of targets to duel, at the cost of no experienced gained from duelling opponents.
In my eyes and in the eyes of many others I'm sure, this change will likely put an end to more than half of the serious duellers on every world. I think the system right now works well. I know it can be better. Duck has a good point about the level 120 player levels being able to hit beyond their standard duelling range (meaning same duel level/1.4 except with no upper limit at 120). I think some thought should be put into that.
Also, why create an Arena for duelling??? This is the WILD WEST right? I mean people tracked other people down and duelled them, no matter social class or profession or whether you carried a wrench or a revolver in your hand. To create an arena sounds childish and is like creating a sandbox for duellers to play in. Feels like duellers are being kicked aside and not allowed to play their game anywhere other than the sandbox. Maybe instead, have an arena where duellers can compete irrespective of DUELLING LEVEL, although still allowing duelling elsewhere. but as we see it now.
Resetting the motivation at 100 every day for duelling is not a good idea as many many many many many duellers will get discouraged and quit. I will be one of the first.
Moses
Duelling encompasses two primary incentives. One is experience to level up faster. The second is a lower duelling level, meaning more targets long term. Both of these options have tradeoffs, much like when choosing between Melee dueller or Ranged Dueller (Melee = more hp, Ranged = more aim/dodge). Duelling for experience grants more experience to a player at the cost of raising his duelling level, meaning smaller amount of targets. Duelling at 0 motivation grants a player a larger amount of targets to duel, at the cost of no experienced gained from duelling opponents.
In my eyes and in the eyes of many others I'm sure, this change will likely put an end to more than half of the serious duellers on every world. I think the system right now works well. I know it can be better. Duck has a good point about the level 120 player levels being able to hit beyond their standard duelling range (meaning same duel level/1.4 except with no upper limit at 120). I think some thought should be put into that.
Also, why create an Arena for duelling??? This is the WILD WEST right? I mean people tracked other people down and duelled them, no matter social class or profession or whether you carried a wrench or a revolver in your hand. To create an arena sounds childish and is like creating a sandbox for duellers to play in. Feels like duellers are being kicked aside and not allowed to play their game anywhere other than the sandbox. Maybe instead, have an arena where duellers can compete irrespective of DUELLING LEVEL, although still allowing duelling elsewhere. but as we see it now.
Resetting the motivation at 100 every day for duelling is not a good idea as many many many many many duellers will get discouraged and quit. I will be one of the first.
Moses
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DeletedUser34546
+1 for the idea of a floor to the minimum dueling level. Make it say, Real Level / 1.2 as the lowest you could hit (or 1.1). But the highest you can hit remains linked to your dueling level. That way, people would want to increase there dueling level, as it actually INCREASES the number of targets you have. It would solve the motivation issue entirely, without having to bring in less popular measures. Those who go 0 motiv to protect there town, no longer need to worry; as they can continue to hit them. And can have fun hitting other duelers to increase there target range.
Another idea I used to like, but wouldn't be needed if what I suggested above was implemented -- that your duel level would go down on a defeat (by say the same XP).
Another idea I used to like, but wouldn't be needed if what I suggested above was implemented -- that your duel level would go down on a defeat (by say the same XP).
foscock
Well-Known Member
Excuse me...but where do you get those numbers?
Level 300...zero mot? Try again.
50000 duels? Who is this dueler?
You seem to be just making this up as you go, I'm not going to bother reading the rest.
It is very arguable that fort fighting was ever a significant part of the old west...dueling at least has a place in Western lore, it is part of the whole Western legend. And who is actually complaining about zero mot dueling? I play on 5 .net worlds, duel on one, fort fight & job on the others. I get dueled, big deal. There are plenty of ways to at least minimize the effect - why turn this game into TheWestForDummies?
foscock
Well-Known Member
More numbers...where do these come from? 80% fort fighters? Fantastic, all battles should be full! Oh wait, they aren't.
Quit just making numbers up.
foscock
Well-Known Member
No Kate, duelers don;t like the idea of an Arena because they like the random aspect of dueling, and because this is The West, not ancient Rome.
How is spending your last 2 energy on a job ko a waste?
foscock
Well-Known Member
1% of western films featured a duel against a non-dueler? Ok, I'll buy that, just to avoid google.
How many featured fort fights between 2 organised armies?
Face it, when you here the words "old west" you think of dueling before you think of fort fights.
Bad Billy Jack
Well-Known Member
The zero mot problem is the fact that most duelers, contrary to their claims, only pick on the weak. The problem rears its ugly head with low level zero mots who only exist to rob money from new players who have not learned to bank & enjoy making them quit the game. Once they find victims, they camp over & over to run up their win/KO record. These zero mots just do not care. When their level gets too high, they give their gear to another to hold, while they delete & restart. Wash rinse repeat.
Let's face it folks, this game was designed to allow bullies to rule.
The game is now mature, I just restarted accounts & the path upwards was much more difficult than in 2010; it was VERY ugly. Low level zero mots are now very professional. They have been taught & pushed by the best the game has to offer.
The duelers claim the victims can go townless. What? What kind of game is that? Next the duelers claim they can use job KO. Uh folks, inno tells us that is bannable exploit.
If a way could be found to keep zero mots but protect low levels who have not learned the game or just want to quest, then that could be great.
Inno has suggested an arena; forcing duelers into a specific area. Of course duelers do not want that. They would lose their easy victims that way.
I am glad inno realizes the problem & is trying to address it.
Let's face it folks, this game was designed to allow bullies to rule.
The game is now mature, I just restarted accounts & the path upwards was much more difficult than in 2010; it was VERY ugly. Low level zero mots are now very professional. They have been taught & pushed by the best the game has to offer.
The duelers claim the victims can go townless. What? What kind of game is that? Next the duelers claim they can use job KO. Uh folks, inno tells us that is bannable exploit.
If a way could be found to keep zero mots but protect low levels who have not learned the game or just want to quest, then that could be great.
Inno has suggested an arena; forcing duelers into a specific area. Of course duelers do not want that. They would lose their easy victims that way.
I am glad inno realizes the problem & is trying to address it.
DeletedUser34781
well duelers are forced to become 0 moto to not get owned by higher game level players due to duel levels.. these lvls force players to stick to 0 moto imo as why you want to get into the range of a lvl 120 dueler who wil own you because of the added aps and sps..
0 moto duelers are not the issue.. duel levels are
0 moto duelers are not the issue.. duel levels are
DeletedUser34767
Yes, get rid of duel levels. Then there will be plenty of targets at all levels for duelers.
That will eliminate the "need" for zero mot dueling, leaving only those that are afraid to duel with the big boys/girls and those who just like bullying new low level players as the remaining zero mot duelers.
That will eliminate the "need" for zero mot dueling, leaving only those that are afraid to duel with the big boys/girls and those who just like bullying new low level players as the remaining zero mot duelers.
DeletedUser20147
Don't like the idea of arena dueling. What would that do to bounty dueling? Would the concept make bounties and bounty hunting redundant? If so, it will also make redundant the character(s) Morgan Caine in W1 and W12 (who btw have collected over half a million dollars each from bounties so far). I decided a long time ago that I will get that number as high as possible, reach one million if I can, but when bounty hunting is over, bounty hunter Morgan Caine will retire from The-West.
Also, I don't like NPC duels. If I wanted to duel NPC's I would be playing a single-player game.
Also, I don't like NPC duels. If I wanted to duel NPC's I would be playing a single-player game.
DeletedUser34315
Exactly. Just have dueling level tied to your character level. The duel XP rankings could be replaced by win/loss ratio or number of wins total.
DeletedUser
What we call dueling in this game in no way remotely resembles dueling in the Old West. It would be called "bushwhacking" or "dry gulching" which is entirely different. A zero mot dueler has more "duels" in a day than any gunfighter in fact or fiction had in their entire lives.
foscock
Well-Known Member
Now you're just grasping at straws, with a strawman. How many RL soldiers have had 10-20 battles in a week?
EVERY game I've played exaggerates the features....if all games were based on real life we'd spend 90% of the time arguing with our spouses.
I think this whole "dueling problem" is directly related to the fort battle formula that has crippled fort fighting - the battles have become so boring and predictable that many have reskilled to dueler, and since they've been forters most of their time, they have a low dueling level.
And for those who feel the low levels have it too difficult...you have to be kidding. Inno has made leveling up for low levels so ridiculously easy that it's your own fault if it seems hard.
When I started this game I got dueled at least 1000% more then I do now. It is just a minor annoyance, like job damage. I joined this game because the dueling attracted me, I am now 80% forter. Fort fighting is broken, now you talk about breaking dueling. It's almost as if you want to see everyone quit...which seems to be happening anyway.
DeletedUser
Did I say fort battles were realistic? The difference is that they are voluntary pvp instances. When's the last time you saw me argue about how awesome fort battles were? I haven't fought regularly since the end of April and only a couple times defending home forts through June.
I never played a game that had open pvp anywhere on the map. It was always only in select areas that you entered by choice. Most such areas were strictly for pvp.
I didn't start this argument, I was responding strictly to comments that dueling was realistic in the context of the Old West, which it most absolutely is NOT, both in the historic and fictional versions of the Old West.