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DeletedUser25802

Only solution to protect workers and crafters is to make 0 mot dueling available at duel lvl 250+.

lvl 120-150 0 mots are same as lvl 30 or 40 0 mots, there is no difference. If level 120/150 went xp dueling it wouldnt take long before he would get out of range of those workers/crafters.

i didnt say the new duellers at level 120 where zero mot duellers :)

also those workers/crafters are constantly going to be duelled by different duellers coming into their duel range! they'll still get slaughtered just now it will be by different duellers every month :D
 

mrtelcom

Only solution to protect workers and crafters is to make 0 mot dueling available at duel lvl 250+.

lvl 120-150 0 mots are same as lvl 30 or 40 0 mots, there is no difference. If level 120/150 went xp dueling it wouldnt take long before he would get out of range of those workers/crafters.
Not if they are sticking to attacking the level 50 players who have a duel motivation of 120-190. You really don't think that is what they will be doing?
 

SmittyJohnson

The benefit of removing ZMD is that ZMD "duelers" who reach maximum level dont terorize lvl 120/150 workers, crafters etc..

Raise your duel level and attack duelers only, maybe then you can call yourselves duelers.

Zero mot duelers aint duelers and will never be duelers!!!
Your opinion on dueling philosophy is only your OPINION Ripwise. I've done them both, motivation and ZMD. Matter of fact I've done a lot more Motivation than ZMD. It is purely philosophy of how you want to run your account on whatever world.

Tell ya what Mr. Forum Moderator. If you can find 250 dueling targets on W12 then I'll never complain again :D. Don't bother trying I've already checked your dueling level, I know it isn't possible.
 

SmittyJohnson

i didnt say the new duellers at level 120 where zero mot duellers :)

also those workers/crafters are constantly going to be duelled by different duellers coming into their duel range! they'll still get slaughtered just now it will be by different duellers every month :D
Yup and when people hit a certain nasty dueling level you'll see them start over just like they do now. Then those people who have been dueled will get dueled again and again... Again!
 

DeletedUser34781

ZMD is not skillful and never will be even though i always end up at 0. best duelers are all high dls
 

SmittyJohnson

ZMD is not skillful and never will be even though i always end up at 0. best duelers are all high dls
Or "HAVE BEEN" a motivation dueler, your opinion is always highly respected Diss, you're in that top 5% of duelers IMHO. However, some of us have gone that route and get sick of dueling the same 50 people over and over and over, again and again. Some of us have been top 10 or top 50 in the past and been bored to death for lack of targets. If you truly enjoy dueling and it is your purpose on the game ZMD is the only real option at this point.
 
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Ripwise

Well-Known Member
In order to call yourself a dueler you need to have equall opponent, thats why there are dueling levels and thats why best duelers have high dueling level. I have around 30 targets on w12 and i dont regret it at all. I have so much fun dueling Morgan Caine, Sencor or Mcdgeneral i wouldnt ever want to be 0 mot, they are true opponents and gentlemen.

Get your duel levels up and play with the big boys or stay 0 mots and be worker bashers so you can brag about numbers.

PS: I wonder if you could que more than 3 duels after duel lvl 450+ ;)
 

SmittyJohnson

In order to call yourself a dueler you need to have equall opponent, thats why there are dueling levels and thats why best duelers have high dueling level. I have around 30 targets on w12 and i dont regret it at all. I have so much fun dueling Morgan Caine, Sencor or Mcdgeneral i wouldnt ever want to be 0 mot, they are true opponents and gentlemen.

Get your duel levels up and play with the big boys or stay 0 mots and be worker bashers so you can brag about numbers.

PS: I wonder if you could que more than 3 duels after duel lvl 450+ ;)
I've been there, I've done that. When I came back in 2012 the first 2 accounts I started were motivation accounts. Still have one of them though at about 80/175ish I went to ZMD on that one. ZMD was almost non-existent when I played before in 2009/2010. But there were tons of targets too.

The only reason many of us play this game is to duel, what incentive to be active, buy nuggets, even continue to play would we have if like you we only had 30 targets? BORING. I know you (at least on W12) are a FFer now or at least run a FF town. Don't forget whom pointed out that town for you :D.

As to a que of more than 3 duels, obviously you haven't ever dueled in the top tier of the ZMD's. Using world 12 for example try dueling Agandor, Kilhar, Killblade, and Myself (as a under 120 example) in a row and see if you make it past the first one. Assuming you are within 20 levels of us. We have plenty of competition, bounty hunting causes that. Yes we ZMD's spend a LOT of time hunting each other for the big money. More time doing that than anything else. The only exception is a town/alliance war.

SOOOOOOO you don't think two guys hitting each other at level 60 and level 60 base levels is not equal? You think to be equal a level 60 with a dueling level of 140 needs to be dueling a level 90 with a dueling level of 150? In this Rip, you are way out of touch. The only reason your high dueling levels are remotely equal in duels is because for a very long time you and your opponents were maxed out on base levels. You have been playing WAY to long and have been at the top to long to be able to understand low level game play.

The fact is once you hit your max base level Ripwise, Dueling levels mean nothing. You think dueling someone with a DLvl 450 is more or less difficult than a 500, or a 300? All that means is that they've gained more dueling experience. It means SQUAT about how TOUGH a dueler is. I can jack my duel level in no time beating up fat high level Fort fighters... It doesn't mean they have trained right, or have the best equipment. I could probably beat a significant amount of high dueling level guys now at my base level 85, sure they'd be fort fighters but they still have that DLvl 450 :p Because that dueling level means a lot right? Couldn't que up 3 guys at duel level 450...... :p

Most of us only have energy to do 6 - 7 duels a day by the time we get ourselves back to Zero Motivation. That is if we are not premium with 150 energy. A NPC duel takes 5 energy each. If I need 6 NPC duels to get myself back to 0 that gives me 70 energy left. I usually get 2 back by the time I get through 5 duels so I get one more for a total of 6 as a bonus when I hit the 5th. So obviously we are not out marauding all day long.
 
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DeletedUser34781

it seems the next big thing they need to address is the dueling.. i really hope they do a good job on it
 

DeletedUser15057

In order to call yourself a dueler you need to have equall opponent, thats why there are dueling levels and thats why best duelers have high dueling level. I have around 30 targets on w12 and i dont regret it at all. I have so much fun dueling Morgan Caine, Sencor or Mcdgeneral i wouldnt ever want to be 0 mot, they are true opponents and gentlemen.

Get your duel levels up and play with the big boys or stay 0 mots and be worker bashers so you can brag about numbers.

PS: I wonder if you could que more than 3 duels after duel lvl 450+ ;)
Speak for yourself pal.

Everyone who wants to duel is a dueler, regardless who or how they duel, that is the way the game has been set up.
To try and qualify a dueler like you just have is arrogant.

Additionally I suspect many, including myself target duels mostly for the money not the bragging stats.

I also duel far more players who are higher level than myself, including now those who have got the benefit of 20-40 game levels on me, so it is hardly a case of dueling noob players who are disadvantaged by a lack of APs/SPs.
 
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**BillTheButcher**

In order to call yourself a dueler you need to have equall opponent, thats why there are dueling levels and thats why best duelers have high dueling level. I have around 30 targets on w12 and i dont regret it at all. I have so much fun dueling Morgan Caine, Sencor or Mcdgeneral i wouldnt ever want to be 0 mot, they are true opponents and gentlemen.

Get your duel levels up and play with the big boys or stay 0 mots and be worker bashers so you can brag about numbers.

PS: I wonder if you could que more than 3 duels after duel lvl 450+ ;)

To call yourself a true honest dueler you do need equal opponents " ripwise is 100% correct" the trouble is not one single person i have ever met has only dueled pure 100% duelers so its ok saying this but to get your high level duel rank you bashed fort fighters / higher level workers and ex duelers turned questers and more, oh don't just post you didn't, because we know its bull, show us the reports to prove it. :shootout:

PS i could que 8 duels with resistance build easy no matter what level i was

One last thing when we talk about equal opponents is there such a thing though? nugget spenders like myself have a much greater advantage maybe the new clothes might adjust that a bit only time will tell.
 
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Ripwise

Well-Known Member
I will say one more thing on bashing since it comes that you have to bash FFrs/high lvl workers to get to high duel lvl:

How long do you think you will bash FFrs or high lvl workers before you get out of their range? You will maybe do 50 duels and you are out of their range while 0 mot bashers are never out of that range.

Another thing is number of wins vs number of loses 0 mot bashers have, losses came from dueling duelers in their range while wins and im talking 90% of them came from dueling non dueling skilled people.

Smitty, it is funny how you mentioned all those 0 mot bashers while you are from same town. I understand, you need to keep each others back ;)

One more thing Smitty: How many equall opponents you have in your range that are not from your town?

One more thing: Resistance days are over, in the long run no resist build can outmatch range built duelers, especially with the new gear in place.

Another thing is: No one duels for cash, thats just an lousy excuse because money gained from it is not enough to get you something good, especially with the prices on older worlds.

To wrap this post up, take a look at the rankings of first 10 duelers and you will see how many duels they lost and how many won, that only means one thing and that is they were dueling against dueling skilled people at which you are bound to lose some and win some.

PS: Number of wins vs loses shows true character of a dueler and if he dueled dueling skilled people or bashed workers.
 

**BillTheButcher**

I will say one more thing on bashing since it comes that you have to bash FFrs/high lvl workers to get to high duel lvl:

How long do you think you will bash FFrs or high lvl workers before you get out of their range? You will maybe do 50 duels and you are out of their range while 0 mot bashers are never out of that range.

Another thing is number of wins vs number of loses 0 mot bashers have, losses came from dueling duelers in their range while wins and im talking 90% of them came from dueling non dueling skilled people.

Smitty, it is funny how you mentioned all those 0 mot bashers while you are from same town. I understand, you need to keep each others back ;)

One more thing Smitty: How many equall opponents you have in your range that are not from your town?

One more thing: Resistance days are over, in the long run no resist build can outmatch range built duelers, especially with the new gear in place.

Another thing is: No one duels for cash, thats just an lousy excuse because money gained from it is not enough to get you something good, especially with the prices on older worlds.

To wrap this post up, take a look at the rankings of first 10 duelers and you will see how many duels they lost and how many won, that only means one thing and that is they were dueling against dueling skilled people at which you are bound to lose some and win some.

PS: Number of wins vs loses shows true character of a dueler and if he dueled dueling skilled people or bashed workers.

like i said to get there you bashed your way using the higher level workers/fortfighters if u didnt you wouldnt of won a duel, like i said before my first build on w12 was a xp dueler, i didnt know what i was doing and dueled other duelers workers fortfighters and ended up level 45 duel level 89 and thats when i packed up, simple i couldnt last more than one or 2 duels being dueled by level 100+ players semi skilled or newly skilled duelers "not a fair duel really" so being a xp honest dueler is just fantasy, and people still look for cheap wins to get the cheap xp, bashing re-skilled duelers :laugh: you know it goes on. and when you get to the top its boring and over and re-skill time.
 
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SmittyJohnson

I will say one more thing on bashing since it comes that you have to bash FFrs/high lvl workers to get to high duel lvl:

How long do you think you will bash FFrs or high lvl workers before you get out of their range? You will maybe do 50 duels and you are out of their range while 0 mot bashers are never out of that range.

Another thing is number of wins vs number of loses 0 mot bashers have, losses came from dueling duelers in their range while wins and im talking 90% of them came from dueling non dueling skilled people.

Smitty, it is funny how you mentioned all those 0 mot bashers while you are from same town. I understand, you need to keep each others back ;)

One more thing Smitty: How many equall opponents you have in your range that are not from your town?

One more thing: Resistance days are over, in the long run no resist build can outmatch range built duelers, especially with the new gear in place.

Another thing is: No one duels for cash, thats just an lousy excuse because money gained from it is not enough to get you something good, especially with the prices on older worlds.

To wrap this post up, take a look at the rankings of first 10 duelers and you will see how many duels they lost and how many won, that only means one thing and that is they were dueling against dueling skilled people at which you are bound to lose some and win some.

PS: Number of wins vs loses shows true character of a dueler and if he dueled dueling skilled people or bashed workers.
Rip there are a LOT of good duelers on W12 who are not -Lincoln- however, that being said we are always recruiting the best. I always use -Lincoln- for examples because short of The Bloody Path we are the best, at the game, at the numbers, in every way possible.

Rip, you were one of the best, until you got arrogant, bored, and became a FFer. And that is ok if it is your little corner of the game. But until you restart, ZMD, and duel me and win consistently, you have no room to talk.

"I" have NEVER claimed to duel just duelers. I duel everyone equally. Did the psycho/sociopaths of the west only seek out other gunslingers? No, they robbed trains, stage coaches, banks, butchered families in isolated settlements. They shot children dead, burned people alive in their homes, gave blankets infested with small pox, and poisoned fire water to the natives... Believe me if I could do these things in the game, I would do them. I would come to your little FF town, I would butcher man, woman, child, horse, cow, dog, hamster, and rat... Yeah I have a thing for cats so I'd leave them alone... Your street would be mud made from dirt and blood. I would burn your forts down and and roast the cows I killed at your town on the fire.

THAT was the true American Westward expansion. Gunfights where honorable gunslingers challenged each other in the street didn't happen. The only Fort Fights were between the United States Army and the Native Americans they butchered, and it was always the Natives attacking the forts, and it was ALMOST always the Natives being butchered.

I forget you foreign peeps have no idea what the west was and you have only old westerns where the bad guy wore black but wasn't really a bad guy just kinda bad, to base your ideas off of.

Seriously Rip, read my profile on W12 and tell me why you think I play an honorable dueler?
Wait I'll make it easy for you and paste part you need to read here.

Proud founder of the (DADL) "Dueling Anti-Discrimination League."

Yes that's right, I don't discriminate when I duel, if you are within my level range plan on being dueled!

This isn't going to change whether they do away with ZMD or not. I'll just spend more time terrorizing FFing towns like yours instead of going after big bounties on other duelers. You don't like that, restart, go ZMD and come try me out! Come try dueling me I invite you. I want to see how good you are when you are not as Bill said, climbing to massive dueling levels over workers and FFers.
 
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Ripwise

Well-Known Member
Due to the lack of your reading skills, lack of trying to be polite and lack of keeping this an objective discussion about dueling and your engagement into personal attacks and bringing this to world specific situation (which is btw offtopic) im ending it here.

This thread is to discuss dueling(as we disscused until you went all w12ish) and future game features and possible changes(helthy ones) and not meant for personal attacks, world specific drama and drama of whatever reason.
 

SmittyJohnson

Due to the lack of your reading skills, lack of trying to be polite and lack of keeping this an objective discussion about dueling and your engagement into personal attacks and bringing this to world specific situation (which is btw offtopic) im ending it here.

This thread is to discuss dueling(as we disscused until you went all w12ish) and future game features and possible changes(helthy ones) and not meant for personal attacks, world specific drama and drama of whatever reason.
This discussion is not world specific (worlds only used as examples as stated when I used W12 as an example), and I'm not the one who accuses anyone of not dueling like them of being wrong and not a real dueler. And obviously if you are going to have a game called (The-West) maybe you should have some instruction as to what The REAL West was by a American History major. I don't expect you to know it, as I sure as heck know very little about Eastern Europe and could care less about Eastern Europe's history unless it pertains to USA.

The changes purposed by INNO are not acceptable, I have talked until blue in the face about how to change this positively. I have had posts deleted. I have been attacked verbally (You're not a real dueler you're ZMD) Yes Rip that is an attack vs. any ZMD dueler out there not just myself. And if you really want to change this to Farmville Version 2.0 Good luck with that. I know that with a few exceptions the FFing crowd spends a LOT more than we duelers do. So it's only good business sense right?

I'd love to help INNO constructively, but they have to listen first. Maybe the majority of those who duel regularly should be consulted about dueling changes instead of people who have never dueled in their lives purposefully. What do you think Rip?
 

SmittyJohnson

Speak for yourself pal.

Everyone who wants to duel is a dueler, regardless who or how they duel, that is the way the game has been set up.
To try and qualify a dueler like you just have is arrogant.

Additionally I suspect many, including myself target duels mostly for the money not the bragging stats.

I also duel far more players who are higher level than myself, including now those who have got the benefit of 20-40 game levels on me, so it is hardly a case of dueling noob players who are disadvantaged by a lack of APs/SPs.
I like to generally go after the higher levels as well. They are the ones who can do the jobs and have a significant amount of cash on them.
 

HelenBack

Well-Known Member
On Beta... They have already split NPC and PVP Duel XP... :mad:

I already voiced my opinion here:
http://forum.beta.the-west.net/showthread.php?t=2387

In general, now that I can no longer lower my duel mot by using NPC duels... I'm forced to look for low level peeps that I can duel for low XP so I can lower my Dueling Mot. I've been too busy to do any real dueling lately, but I like to keep my duel level low incase someone duels me and loses... I don't want the XP.

The reason I am a ZMD is because I do not want to be limited by the number I can duel. I've known too many great duelers who dueled their way to the top only to find there were only a handful they could duel. If they had a total of 10 on the whole world, maybe 5 were sleeping... already KO'd... or in battles... or even out of town because they didn't want to be dueled constantly. If I'm dueling, I want to have variety... I don't want to harass the same people every day.

BTW, I am not a ZMD just so I can duel low level peeps... I don't actually like doing that unless it's necessary... (if they are annoying a friend, townie or ally, then I'll go duel them) I do not like being forced to have to search for low level peeps just to keep my Duel Level low. I think this move to split XP will just make more people look for low levels to duel to keep their Duel Level low.

Inno is going down the wrong path with this idea.... Really wrong. If this does wind up being what they decide to do, that will be another nail in the coffin.
:tumble:
 

DeletedUser34767

Thanks for the link HelenBack.

I tried all aspects of the game on different worlds before settling on my questing adventurer on Colorado ( I only have the time to play one world ). I'm glad I decided to ignore dueling as it seemed messed up when I started in 2012 and looks to be just as messed up now and going forward.

I don't mind the fact that Inno is splitting the NPC dueling motivation and PvP dueling motivation, but I don't think it will make dueling any better or really serve the purpose of "fixing" the ZMD issue either.

One of the things I do find odd is that the self defined duelers continue to complain about how these changes will ruin their enjoyment of the game, but care little for their victims enjoyment of the game. Dueling is the only aspect of the game where a player can lose up to 100% of their energy without any action on their part ( job damage, fort damage, etc. require the player to schedule the action ). Different things "ruin" different peoples games and we need to respect others enjoyment of the game and not just our own.

Unfortunately, there are so many legacy problems with dueling that would be difficult to get any buy in to fix, especially things that might affect statistics.

Here are some brain farts.

1) Have people who are KO'd in a duel lose all their health but leave their energy alone. That way they could use a small heath buff and still go out and work a few jobs without having to spend a bunch of time in the hotel.

2) If you really want to "fix" zero mot dueling then treat it like any other job, as motivation goes down so does the cash reward ( $0 at 0% ). Bounties would be unaffected. Loser still loses the same amount of money as currently does.

3) Use character level for determining who can be dueled.

4) Come up with a new system for scoring town points. Right now the system rewards those towns whose duelers make sure they don't lose. That is a major reason they look for easy wins by hitting non-duelers.

5) Scoring individual duels. I'd love to see a RPI type system like they use in college basketball where it kept your duel record related to the quality of your opponent. i.e. ( 4-2 vs top 100, 5-1 vs 101-250, 8-0 vs 251-500, 25-1 vs 500 and worse ) Unfortunately it would be really complicated but I'd be interested in dueling if there was some goal to it that could actually be measured.

Sorry about the rant.

I think my only hope for dueling is the idea of an event world. I like the last man standing idea. :)