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Feedback Community Project: Fort Limit Rebalancing

Victor Kruger

Well-Known Member
Nicely laid out A and i agree with most comments.. time and again players come up with viable n considered solutions... rinse repeat.. nothing ever is done to make ff more interesting and suspect never will be unless you consider another formula tweeak or set to be "different" or an improvement to an already very old game.

All very well n good and i hope im wrong but... your dreaming and in a bit of a bubble... FF are not the main thing for the majority and never have been .. its one of the most popular things to engage with and do sure.. but i dont think 200 is much of a % on a world.. only as they go quiet and then its never more than 20% of a world, which is a huuuuge % and far greater than even the heydays with 50k playing a world.

I know why ive pretty much stopped doing forts, boredom. Theres been 0 new in 10 years in forts but more ever better n sometimes op sets, tweaks to numbers and more sets n tweaks to towers etc... woo woo :roll: ... nothing "new " about the forts, the layout, what you can and cant do... nothing. Just rejigging max numbers and tower bonus etc and pretty picture sets with numbers ever increasing has become stale to say the least... for me anyways now its purely social and its sad thats all, just as it is for many others now, but i still love to see m8s so i go but much less than i should or could if it was interesting again .

I do not expect that to ever change either but shall continue to hope some spark buys the game from inno with some vision. Its what dreams are made of :up:
 

Darkuletzz

Well-Known Member
Everything Cactus said, i m agree with it just with the thing with 3-4 ff day :)), anyway nothing will happen, this discusion opened like i don't know how many times in over 3 years, nothing happened since then(just a broken idiotic formula), i don't think what we talk here will happen either, it's just let give this guys some sort of atention, and say after" Thank you for your feedback" and again nothing will happen.
 

Dr Roth

Well-Known Member
The only thing we can change here is the numbers. I think defence should have at least 80. And then we could adjust the attack numbers to balance the battles
 

Clever Hans

Well-Known Member
There are many issues with FFing in 2022 besides the attackers vs defenders balance that others already explained into details.

1) Broken rewards system: Current bonds and exp cap are just not enough to attract the players that don't FF on daily bases. And the rewards heavily favor the damagers over other FF builds. Special rewards that you offer for event fights, such as bond letters and Awesomia chests, should be given to some randomly selected players also in the regular fights, as it was the case before The West 2.0. Awesomia chests should get revamped, take out the useless buffs and replace them with FF relevant items. If you got enough dev time for it, might also consider adding a specially designed set for FFs, similar to Outlaw set dropping from the loot chests. Also, 6k exp from one fight is nowadays less exp than 1h of construction on the high lvl church (up to 10k exp) so the exp reward should be at least doubled.

2) No benefits of owning a fort: Ever since you introduced the OP regeneration sets such as Santa, benefits of regenerating HP and energy in the fort vs hotel are negligible. I personally never use fort barracks nor I sleep ingame except for 3-4 times/year if some quest requires it.

3) Duration of battles: While 55 round fights are rare nowadays (except on Colorado), 1h of being online to finish a single fight is too long if you work or got a busy RL. Find the ways to finish the fights quicker, shorter rounds, more reward initiatives to take the flag etc No one enjoys watching pixels moving around the map for 1h.

4) Lack of diversity: Same maps, same fort structures, same battle tactics... nothing has been changed for years despite many good proposals from the players. Just to mention few: fort shop, deteriorating fort structures after the battle, different battle maps..

These issues won´t be solved by adjusting tower bonuses, battle numbers, new FF formula or Cortina version for attackers. It´s time for devs to revamp the battles.
 
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Beefmeister

Well-Known Member
so everything i see here are tweaks that can't be done by mods...
much expected to be honest. fix the game...don't put a patch on it


i had a really insulting meme to post but i still have some dignity left
will be back with some real suggestions
 

wyindywidualizowany

Well-Known Member
Rewards - duellers get everything
Tanks - don't want to say unplayable but it's just not normal that a tank in full cortina on his tower with premium can pretty much die in 1 round in medium forts
Gear - damagers get their gear during some random events while tanks have to spend money on cortina during dotd (just an example). Not to mention the most op gear in the game - union was obviously for damagers and tanks got nothing in exchange. Also would be nice to give tanks at least a chance to choose between different builds/gear right now all they have is full hp and cortina.
Preparation - tanks have to sleep/regenerate their hp while damagers can be in the middle of anything as all they have to do is go to fort
Ranks - there should be an extra rank called "Leader" who gets better rewards and is either the person who dug a fort or hes chosen by the town that owns the fort. He should ALSO be able to move offliners.
Fort numbers - should be dynamic, situation on different worlds is different. Colorado is able to overfill medium while there are worlds with 20v20 FFs, not sure how you can come up with a number that works for both of these. Also, you have to remembers that these limits youre trying to find are limits that would you give the most balanced FFs, but all it takes is 5 less people on either side and FFs become unbalanced again.
Adventurers - I don't even know where to start, just completely rework this class as with all the updates advents became obsolete.
As mentioned above - rounds should be shorter (it doesn't take that long to load fort window for people anymore so 1st round can be a bit longer but not THAT long + all other rounds should at least be 20 seconds shorter). Also completely agree with the idea of having a bank in each fort. Also more exp, not sure about bonds as I'd like to see you balance rewards first because that's more important.


To anyone saying nerf towers - good luck surviving 1 round on towers when you do that (unless you mean to only nerf attack buff, that I can agree with)
 

Victor Kruger

Well-Known Member
And this thread has a lot of current and notable top Battle/Alliance leaders and class FF/players all saying similar but what do we know right ? :dastardly:

Make it worth peoples time, open up the forts and skills like crits % to any class etc or soldier hp or the adven ghost... Why after all this time can players not have a fort skill tree or something, they could choose a couple of skills for a few weeks or shields to buy allowing that ? ANYTHING so the same class near every battle dont get ALL the glory mostly from hiding half the time every damned battle n the irony is when a damager im embarrassed by how simple n easy it is, knowing full well I did nothing most of the battle but hide behind others.. the rewards in that respect for me are so wrong so ive gone duel only with all my Dueler class, i thought it would be fun but soon found out quite the reverse.

I dont mind dying n taking the hits to be out n dead most mid battles but even im fed up never getting anything of worth and ive never cared about rankings or xp or dodges n all that but it would from time to time be nice to get more than a few k xp and a couple of bonds ... I cant imagine what its like for players with toons at 150 who spend hundreds on gear to consistently miss and get nothing more than a lvl 30 damager, its just so wrong.

What happened to random chest drops for some ? its how shinys entered the game and the only way they did, and that was 2010 .. at least there was SOMETHING anyone could get at random.. and battles attendance went UP like a rocket. Just saying...

So many here know what they are talking about, shame gamers are these days rarely considered over the marketing and $$$$ to be made but TW dosnt even get that investment anymore ... go figure :/

Numbers will continue to drop and all thatll remain are the same few hundred players going rd in circles.. great as most regulars are its hardly a recipe for success.or exciting.
 
Agree with all of these comments and I would like to add even though I'm not the greatest at FF why can't it be better balanced? Maybe NPC's added to make it so?

It is a fort right where are the bullet sponges? It's rather disheartening to finally have a ff and it can't be filled no matter what side you are on.

My favorite part about FF is the team work. But they are too long in my opinion.

Random rewards and no no no not a another blasted clover please would also be great.

My favorite parts of Adventures is also the team work, strategy and its quick but its horribly unbalanced. There will always be cheaters and people who enjoy gaming the system but you could make it a little harder for them!

Why can't these simple and almost best parts of this beloved game be balanced better?

I've also played long enough to realize inno isn't listening to us so Thank You to fellow players and cm who are trying to make things better.
 

Abydos1

Well-Known Member
Agree with all of these comments and I would like to add even though I'm not the greatest at FF why can't it be better balanced? Maybe NPC's added to make it so?

It is a fort right where are the bullet sponges? It's rather disheartening to finally have a ff and it can't be filled no matter what side you are on.

My favorite part about FF is the team work. But they are too long in my opinion.

Random rewards and no no no not a another blasted clover please would also be great.

My favorite parts of Adventures is also the team work, strategy and its quick but its horribly unbalanced. There will always be cheaters and people who enjoy gaming the system but you could make it a little harder for them!

Why can't these simple and almost best parts of this beloved game be balanced better?

I've also played long enough to realize inno isn't listening to us so Thank You to fellow players and cm who are trying to make things better.

Whoa an old name from the past...you still play Crapventures?
 

Beefmeister

Well-Known Member
To anyone saying nerf towers - good luck surviving 1 round on towers when you do that (unless you mean to only nerf attack buff, that I can agree with)

i'm really curious though, in your imagination...let's consider a real life hypothetical version of a fort where 70 people are shooting at a single target. how many times do you get alive out of there in 10 identical situations?

towers are supposed to be mounted when you have LOS advantage, with onliners that are responsive to orders and so on. not tank all shots from beginning to end of the game. if every single tank that exists in a battle would dodge more than 3 rounds those battles would end tomorrow

in small fights tanks do dodge a lot more in the current state because the number of fighters is reasonable

you know very well the tower bonuses are one of the main reasons the game is in this state...this seems to me like raidertr mentality
 

wyindywidualizowany

Well-Known Member
i'm really curious though, in your imagination...let's consider a real life hypothetical version of a fort where 70 people are shooting at a single target. how many times do you get alive out of there in 10 identical situations?

towers are supposed to be mounted when you have LOS advantage, with onliners that are responsive to orders and so on. not tank all shots from beginning to end of the game. if every single tank that exists in a battle would dodge more than 3 rounds those battles would end tomorrow

in small fights tanks do dodge a lot more in the current state because the number of fighters is reasonable

you know very well the tower bonuses are one of the main reasons the game is in this state...this seems to me like raidertr mentality

In your imagination... I'm a tank. I have to stay awake for a fort fight to have 1 round of fun when tanking on point so that you can have fun shooting people for 55 rounds... No, that sounds completely fine, everyone in their right mind would like to be a tank.

Also, it might be raidertr mentality I don't care. But there's a reason as to why 3 classes think that duellers crits are way too good and complain about how they often can't survive a single round and then there are duellers saying that tanks are op. I wonder who should inno listen to
 

Beefmeister

Well-Known Member
In your imagination... I'm a tank. I have to stay awake for a fort fight to have 1 round of fun when tanking on point so that you can have fun shooting people for 55 rounds... No, that sounds completely fine, everyone in their right mind would like to be a tank.

Also, it might be raidertr mentality I don't care. But there's a reason as to why 3 classes think that duellers crits are way too good and complain about how they often can't survive a single round and then there are duellers saying that tanks are op. I wonder who should inno listen to

so basically you came with 0 arguments
it's not my fault i chose dueler when i started playing the game without knowing the implications of my character class....and no i don't have any fun at all, especially in attacks

you should start playing on other servers except colorado and see how the situation is there when defenses have significantly more numbers, attackers don't have so many duelers and there's no union

if you consider me just a "dueler", we can start the same character class on any server of your liking and we'll see if i'm just a dueler :lol:
 

lulumcnoob

Well-Known Member
Personally I don't think extra experience is the best way to increase attendances, especially for max-level players, but it couldn't hurt, and as mentioned previously, construction exp has power-crept Fort Battles out of relevance when it comes to levelling.
I do think that rewards are the key to higher attendances, however, so I'll borrow from the entire thread I made back in 2020 about how we fix fort fights:

- Bring back random drops in fort battles, create a new reward pool that's good enough to encourage attendance
this actually used to be a feature, a very popular one that honestly drove early fort fighting. I believe this was the only way to drop the 3rd key(?) at one point.

- 1 additional bond for adventurers every time they "ghost" a shot
because Advents get shafted more than any other class. I know that the game doesn't currently track ghosts, but it's a simple change to make - the data exists in the post-battle report anyway.

- 0.1/0.2 additional bonds for every 1k of health points lost during the battle
Currently damage is the key to getting high amounts of bonds from battles, we need to encourage and reward tanking.

- New daily Fort Quests, with different objectives and rewards good enough to increase attendance (@Harsha.. )
speaks for itself really, actual incentive to join a battle for PvE-ers and extra incentive for PvP-ers

- Custom Avatars for Fort Battle Leaders (@Harsha.. )
They are the most valuable players in the entire game. Recognise.

- Fort shop that we were promised like 11 years ago as a reason to own forts, with a pool of random fort buffs and maybe new single use weapons (@Nisa )
The only, singular, sole reason to own a fort is to have fort battles with it.
The original concept included a "fort shop", both as a reason to fight over these things, and to sell unique PvP items.

- Additional daily reward for all players that are members of town in a fort, took part in fort battles or completed daily quests: A new special fort currency similar to VP from adventures. Could spend these points in the Fort shop outlined above.
Just another incentive for PvE and PvP alike to join battles and get cool rewards. I mean people actually tolerate Adventures for these things, imagine what it could do for the good PvP mini-game that made this game popular to begin with.


All that I can say about using the limited powers our mod team have, to try to find the best balance, is that I fully support the continuation of Nyborg's work before you fired him, keep it up.
 

Alduin

Well-Known Member
Above anything, we are not told what Inno willing to change order to make this work. We came up with different ideas, trying to contribute. At least knowing what can be changed or what cant be changed properly we could offer more specific suggestion if not, opening a test server that starts from 150 with pre built forts town and merchants selling fort sets can provide immense data about whats up. As far as i see and experienced just tweaking numbers of attackers/defenders not going to solve any problem.
 

lulumcnoob

Well-Known Member
Above anything, we are not told what Inno willing to change order to make this work. We came up with different ideas, trying to contribute. At least knowing what can be changed or what cant be changed properly we could offer more specific suggestion if not, opening a test server that starts from 150 with pre built forts town and merchants selling fort sets can provide immense data about whats up. As far as i see and experienced just tweaking numbers of attackers/defenders not going to solve any problem.
No, it's not going to solve the underlying issues, but it might keep the scene alive for long enough to implement real changes to address the core problems.

It has to be worked out on the individual worlds, not in a laboratory setting that won't apply to any of our game worlds. And as we know, all development resources are tied up in the unwanted update, we can currently affect things by changing side numbers and the stages of fort structure construction.
 

Alduin

Well-Known Member
No, it's not going to solve the underlying issues, but it might keep the scene alive for long enough to implement real changes to address the core problems.

It has to be worked out on the individual worlds, not in a laboratory setting that won't apply to any of our game worlds.

We should know if we are trying to put Ferrari engine under Lada hood.
 

lulumcnoob

Well-Known Member
We should know if we are trying to put Ferrari engine under Lada hood.
I would say that there's a strong chance things could be improved, mostly because after the last IFBC, we had two formula changes to test that were both better than now. The main issue, i believe, was that someone wanted to increase the level cap so it would be pointless to implement these changes until that was decided and the damage assessed. Two years later we are here...
 
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