CLOSED: 48HR Quest & Dueler removal option

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DeletedUser22575

Proposal

To change the Ko system to where they all result in a loss of "combat abilities for the 48 hour period.

At the present time players can be Ko'd but despite not being able to duel against players but can still take part in "combat" such as quest duels, npc duels, and fort fighting.

With this change they would not be able to take part in any sort of combat.

This would include but not be limited to:

Quest Duels
NPC Duels
Player Duels
Fort Fighting
Declaring on Forts
And any new "combat actions" added to the game such as the proposed "Fire" system.

If you are unable to perform "combat actions" you would be able to participate in none instead of being able to perform them as under the current system.

Current Workaround

At the present time despite not being able to duel against other players if you are ko'd players are still able to declare on their forts, fight fort battles against them, and gain exp through these "combat orientated" actions.

Under this proposal if you are KO'd due to dueling you will be unable to engage in any type of "combat orientated" actions.


Details

In any game with different classes and a point distribution system players have to make choices on what their goals are and what they are able to realistically accomplish based on what character class they picked and how they assigned those points.

As we all know different character classes do some things better than others, and they can not expect to be able to do everything well, and they can not expect to be able to do the specialty of the other class as well as that class can.

Workers can't expect to be able to duel as well as Soldiers, soldiers can't expect to do jobs as well as Adventurers, etc.

Despite this clearly being a game in which dueling is a integral part and clearly advertised as an adventuring and dueling game we have players who feel they should not have to be dueled. They just want to build towns, do jobs, and quest. They are not interested in dueling, fort fighting, etc.

And if they are dueled they think they are being "bullied" and this is unfair. Their solution to this is to do a Quest Ko and render themselves safe from dueling for 48 hours, then repeat.

We have other players who don't want to duel but they want to do jobs, quest, and they want to fort fight. Specifically they want to fort fight while being safe from dueling, from pre fort fight strikes to lower HP's or to prevent themselves from being ko'd right before a fort fight.

So they use the Quest Ko to keep themselves safe from dueling (combat) for 48 hours and then go engage in combat against other players (fort fighting) during that 48 hour time period of safety.

In other words they want to gain exp through one form of combat against other players but be safe from other players gaining exp from them through another form of combat. :laugh:


Abuse Prevention

No abuse possible that I can see. If you are Ko'd go work and quest. No fighting of any type, no exp gained through it.


Summary

The adaption of this system will still allow those who do not want to engage in combat, fort fighting and dueling to use the Quest KO to do jobs like building, quests, working, etc, in safety.

However it will require them to decide how they want to earn their exp. Do they want to earn it in safety with no risk of being dueled and loosing money, eps, and hps.

If so then they can hit that quest ko button and have that safety through a self administered KO.

But they will also be required by administering that shot to their foot to avoid combat to give up earning exp through any form of combat. They get what they want (risk free work with no money, ep or hp loss) and they pay a price for that safety.

They will be unable to earn exp the same as those who do take risk do.

Those who want to do jobs, quests, work, etc, and participate in combat part of the time (fort fights) will be required to make a choice also. Do they want risk free work, questing, etc,...then hit that self administered gun shot wound and KO yourself with that quest duel.

But if they want to participate in combat of any type (fort fighting) and earn exp like those who do take risk then they are going to have to give up that self administered KO and face the risk to gain the exp just like everyone else who does so..pre fort fight duels to lower HP's, possible KO right before the fort fight, etc.

This system is completely fair to everyone. It offers safety to those who want it so they can do jobs, quest, etc, by them being able to do a quest KO.

It requires those who want to make exp through combat to be a combatant and not be able to participate in combat against other players in an area they might be specialized in (fort fighting) while being safe from a self administered KO against that other players specialized form of combat (dueling)

This proposed system is completely fair to everyone and discriminates against no one while allowing those who don't want to be "bullied" the safety they want though the Quest KO.

Anyone and everyone who is Ko'd can not engage in any form of combat no matter what their class or game goals are. Can't be any more fair than that.

This will also allow the introduction of other new ideas and possible expansion of other forms of combat against towns and forts such as the proposed "Fire job.

But under the present system here is how something like that would work.

Hats from another town show up and stack up the wood, cotton, etc, up against your town buildings and pour the oil on it while some of them prepare the torches.

You notice them and go to Ko them before they start your town on fire to protect it. But guess what you can't.

They thumb their noses at you and go "na na nanna" because they are safe while they try to burn your town down because they did a quest ko before they came to burn your town down.

So you have been (outsmarted according to some) and deprived of the right to attempt to protect your town left with only the option of trying to put out the fire once they have started it.

And this same theory applies to the way fort fights are being fought now.

You can't attack me...but I can declare on your fort and come fight to take it away from you.

It is time for this system to be reworked to where those who take the risk earn the reward, not those who hide behind a quest duel being entitled to the same rewards and more than the risk takers are.

Administration

Does this idea meet the Ideas Guidelines & Criteria? Yes/No
Is this idea appear on any of the Previously Suggested Ideas List? Yes/No
__________________
 

DeletedUser16008

Sounds like a very good proposal to me TJ.

If you wish to be a combatant then you should be all in. If you dont wish to partake then then you should not have the option of avoiding one aspect yet taking part in another.

It addresses those not wishing to be a combatant yet at the same time eradicates those wishing to abuse the current system and hide behind it.

im not sure how people will view the inability to take part in any combat mode while KO they probably wont like it and id suggest restricting it to quest KO to start in order that those truly wishing to stay out of things would do so altogether.

It also goes someway to stopping people using the NPC to keep their motivation at 0 while KO, like me for instance but id live with that.

Yes i like it a lot and its more rounded and thought out than mine TJ i'll support that 100%
 

DeletedUser

Looks good +it makes more sense. If a player is hurt by the quest npc then there is a HOTEL to sleep in ,that activity is 100% safe from dueling and can be Q'ed multiple times,so there is no need for that 48 hours protection.

If this is a role playing thing where the player is suppose to nurse his wounds ect.. then as the OP suggested there should be no combat activity of any kind( most specially not fort-fighting) for that same period of time.
 

DeletedUser28464

I say no to this and here is the main reasons :

Some of us like myself have very strong fort combat stats, just as others are strong offensive duelers and others are strong defensive duelers.
So here is a system for duelers that are so-so in fort battles to keep the strong fort players from participation in fort battles.


Tuttle, you are so strong against the word "protection", now you want duelers to be protected in fort battles from the strong fort players.
Your idea is that this is a game for duelers, first; and anything else, quests, fort battles, jobs etc.. is second in importance.


Pedro
 

DeletedUser

I have used the quest KO solution on some worlds, usually while doing those blinking lvl 68 & 75 quests, I'd have no problem with it meaning I couldn't take part in Fort Battles for the 48 hour period.
 

DeletedUser16008

Some of us like myself have very strong fort combat stats, just as others are strong offensive duelers and others are strong defensive duelers.
So here is a system for duelers that are so-so in fort battles to keep the strong fort players from participation in fort battles.


Tuttle, you are so strong against the word "protection", now you want duelers to be protected in fort battles from the strong fort players.
Your idea is that this is a game for duelers, first; and anything else, quests, fort battles, jobs etc.. is second in importance.
Pedro

Theres no pleasing some is there ? you want to have fun in forts yet also want to have protection in duels ? come on Pedro you cant say its right to have both ends covered.

Until forts came out i never dueled workers but the minute they decided picked up a gun and wished to shoot me in forts then i decided on those terms they are now fair targets in game... why because if you wish to fight you take the rough with the smooth..

Its either all in or out is how I see it, not by hiding from duels yet able to take part in battles.
 

DeletedUser

If you are a Fort Fighter your duel level wont increase anyway, so no duelers will be able to to duel you. And if you do the sensible thing and choose soldier class and specialise in leadership*, you'll have lot's of CHR and your tactics skill is increased by your class.

* HP whoring is a desperately poor attempt at a Fort Fighter specialisation IMO. Hate it, hate it, hate it.
 

HelenBack

Well-Known Member
Ooh.... Nice job TJ!
:D

That is very fair for everyone! You can either take part in all combat related activities (dueling / fort battles / calling battles) or you can't. Play it safe or be a part of the action. Period.

But... I can hear all those non-dueling types out there saying it's not fair... They want to be able to take part in the fort battles. Well, the duelers want to be able to duel you if you are attacking their fort or even defending a fort they are about to attack. I think they should have the opportunity to do so... Rather than have you all hide behind a quest KO 24/7.
;)

I'd agree to this too...
 

DeletedUser16008

If you are a Fort Fighter your duel level wont increase anyway, so no duelers will be able to to duel you. And if you do the sensible thing and choose soldier class and specialise in leadership*, you'll have lot's of CHR and your tactics skill is increased by your class.

* HP whoring is a desperately poor attempt at a Fort Fighter specialisation IMO. Hate it, hate it, hate it.

You see ? an excellent point Miss S makes there.. ive still no idea why people spec purely for forts anyway its not like 99.9% of them are any better than a normal build in forts anyway and yes i hate the HP whoring thing too but they do make lovely target practice when not hiding behind a Quest KO ;)

No hit - 2628 HP Victor Kruger wins the duel and gains 67 experience points. Clotho did not carry any cash and Victor Kruger walks away without taking any money.
 

Deleted User - 1278415

Clean up the joking comments and word it without the if ... if ... if make it straightforward and readable.

I see that right now your just trying to cover your bases, which is fine. But make the idea easier to read and easier to be translated for me to present.

Then after 1 week it can goto a vote.
 

DeletedUser

finally a solution

It is a good idea, there has been need for a solution to this problem for some time now.
I know there will be some that will be apposed to it. After reading TJ's solution I am curious to see what kind of argument can be brought against it in all fairness. ;)

It is to bad Joxer has you blocked as I am sure this would be of interest to him:p
 

DeletedUser28464

fairness ?

Actually I am a dueler myself, since this is a duel game.
It's just that I duel only the duelers that sucker punch for easy wins. Unfortunately, most of these duelers hide in their hotels sleeping. If they are duelers why do they refuse to duel real duelers. Another tactic of theirs is to run 5 hours away. They duel only those they can beat, then use the system mechanics as a tactic to protect themselves. How else can you get 3000 victories and 20 losses. Then they call this a dueling game. If it is a dueling game why can't they be attacked, while they have a free hand to attack anybody they choose. They keep demanding a longer free hand.

They want an open pass for their activity. Their tactic of protecting themselves in hotels with ridiculous sleeping times is a legitimate tactic with them, but any other tactic to circumvent their tactic is deemed an unfair tactic.

I am all for duels, but lets make it fair for everybody,
For now, I prefer the KO system as is, we would need many other changes in the game for me to put a yes on that,
Pedro
 

DeletedUser22575

Clean up the joking comments and word it without the if ... if ... if make it straightforward and readable.

I see that right now your just trying to cover your bases, which is fine. But make the idea easier to read and easier to be translated for me to present.

Then after 1 week it can goto a vote.

What jokes Good Feather? I didn't make jokes, I used examples to clarify what I was talking about.

As far as the if..if...if...thats the way I write. Come on man, this is not lit comp, you want me to have to learn to write differently :(
 

Deleted User - 1278415

What jokes Good Feather? I didn't make jokes, I used examples to clarify what I was talking about.

As far as the if..if...if...thats the way I write. Come on man, this is not lit comp, you want me to have to learn to write differently :(

I was just hoping I wouldn't have to rewrite it. ;) but if you dont then if it passes a vote then I'll have to probably rewrite it for the sake of getting to the point instead of babbling on and loosing the readers attention and getting filed in file 13.
 

DeletedUser16008

Actually I am a dueler myself, since this is a duel game.
It's just that I duel only the duelers that sucker punch for easy wins. Unfortunately, most of these duelers hide in their hotels sleeping. If they are duelers why do they refuse to duel real duelers. Another tactic of theirs is to run 5 hours away. They duel only those they can beat, then use the system mechanics as a tactic to protect themselves. How else can you get 3000 victories and 20 losses. Then they call this a dueling game. If it is a dueling game why can't they be attacked, while they have a free hand to attack anybody they choose. They keep demanding a longer free hand.

They want an open pass for their activity. Their tactic of protecting themselves in hotels with ridiculous sleeping times is a legitimate tactic with them, but any other tactic to circumvent their tactic is deemed an unfair tactic.

I am all for duels, but lets make it fair for everybody,
For now, I prefer the KO system as is, we would need many other changes in the game for me to put a yes on that,
Pedro

"cough" umm ask anyone on W10 if im a sleeper, camper, or hider I hit anyone within reach of my dueling restrictions. You assume far too many things as a given Pedro through your own experience there are plenty out there who don't hide behind anything other than their build.

This thread is about a current flaw so try to restrict your posts to pointing out things that are to do with it, not just citing the same old and often incorrect theories against full time duelers please.
 

DeletedUser22575

I was just hoping I wouldn't have to rewrite it. ;) but if you dont then if it passes a vote then I'll have to probably rewrite it for the sake of getting to the point instead of babbling on and loosing the readers attention and getting filed in file 13.

I prefer to look at it as covering all the points *sniff*, not "babbling on. How cruel.
 

DeletedUser16008

Make people pay for a 48 hr peace pass, but cant fort fight either if they choose it. That way those wanting to comlete quests etc and items will pay occasionally and those abusing it will have to cough up a lot.

Pay for duel protection is an option such as... under the protection of the pinkertons duel not possible.

Its a win win those wanting peace get it when they need it those wishing to abuse it have to pay and best of all Inno gets more funding for further updates etc
 

DeletedUser28464

"cough" umm ask anyone on W10 if im a sleeper, camper, or hider I hit anyone within reach of my dueling restrictions. You assume far too many things as a given Pedro through your own experience there are plenty out there who don't hide behind anything other than their build.

This thread is about a current flaw so try to restrict your posts to pointing out things that are to do with it, not just citing the same old and often incorrect theories against full time duelers please.

You assume that the Quest KO tactic is a flaw, I call it a tactic. It's the same type of tactic as the sleeping dueler. That is why I compared the two.

Pedro
 

DeletedUser

I really don't like this idea, Fort fighters die on a regular basis. We don't want to but sometimes duty calls for it. To not be able to attend fort fights for the next 2 days, Because I got K.O'd by a NPC would be detrimental to me, and doesn't make any sense. Likewise, just because I got Ko'd from a fort fight should not mean I cant duel.

IMO they are 2 separate things and should be treated as so. Ther are other ways to close the quest NPC K.O. loophole than this.
 

DeletedUser22575

I really don't like this idea, Fort fighters die on a regular basis. We don't want to but sometimes duty calls for it. To not be able to attend fort fights for the next 2 days, Because I got K.O'd by a NPC would be detrimental to me, and doesn't make any sense. Likewise, just because I got Ko'd from a fort fight should not mean I cant duel.

IMO they are 2 separate things and should be treated as so. Ther are other ways to close the quest NPC K.O. loophole than this.

You don't get ko'd from a fort fight.

And while being ko'd by a NPC might be detrimental to you it would be no more detrimental to you than everyone else who got ko'd by one under this system.
 
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